<p>Iowa is a good school. A good medical school, too, as it happens.</p>
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<p>We have attended some pre-med wannabe days at undergrad schools (including state & private schools) and some of those had Med School (theirs) admission people leading Q & A sessions. They were the most helpful compared to the rest of the day to be honest.</p>
<p>They also agreed that the MCAT and GPA were important and discussed differences between AP, cc courses, and 4 year pre-reqs and other assorting FAQ. Of course, at times their answers differed based upon whether their school accepted certain things or not, but they openly mentioned some differences. They talked about what they wanted to see in a successful candidate for med school in general and their BS/MD programs.</p>
<p>No offense, but I trust what I heard - and it was specifically mentioned that one didn’t NEED Ivy undergrad several times, so they aren’t in disagreement with that. I suspect anyone walking away from the same sessions we went to would come away thinking there’d be about 200 - maybe 300 - schools to choose from, but it’s certainly not “any” of the 3000 - 4000 colleges out there according to the two top 15 med school admin people we listened to (people actually on the committee deciding admissions). It would be ok for some others, including those not in the top 15 that we visited.</p>
<p>No offense, but I trust what I heard - and it was specifically mentioned that one didn’t NEED Ivy undergrad several times, so they aren’t in disagreement with that. I suspect anyone walking away from the same sessions we went to would come away thinking there’d be about 200 - maybe 300 - schools to choose from,</p>
<p>The fact that they stressed that it doesn’t have to be an ivy, doesn’t mean that some people didn’t go away thinking that it has to be a Tier 1 school.</p>
<p>I can almost bet that there were people in the audience that walked away thinking…“ok, they have some kind of list…the undergrad doesn’t have to be an ivy…BUT…since they have a list, the list must be schools like MIT, Duke, Emory, Vandy, WashU, UChi, Rice, Stanford, Amherst, Swat, Williams, UCBerkeley, UCLA, Tufts, …schools like that…not schools like UArizona or FSU.”</p>
<p>“I suspect anyone walking away from the same sessions we went to would come away thinking there’d be about 200 - maybe 300 - schools to choose from,”</p>
<p>Creekland,</p>
<p>Unfortunately, if you spend more than 5 mins on the pre-med forum here, you’ll see that A LOT of high school and early college kids erroneously think the list of schools is not 200-300 but more like 20-30.</p>
<p>EDIT: I see mom2 and I posted at the same time. I hope this really drives the point home!</p>
<p>I wanna be brown…</p>
<p>LOL…great minds… </p>
<p>:)</p>
<p>WUSTL was nice enough to provide a web site listing schools their successful applicants have come from over the last 16 years (appear to have had a minimum of 3 successful applicants to have made the list - there are probably several 1 or 2 schools not listed):</p>
<p>[Who</a> Chooses WU](<a href=“http://medadmissions.wustl.edu/HowtoApply/selectionprocess/Pages/WhoChoosesWU.aspx]Who”>http://medadmissions.wustl.edu/HowtoApply/selectionprocess/Pages/WhoChoosesWU.aspx)</p>
<p>There are a fair number of state schools, including Iowa, on their list. They never said this was an exclusive list either, but I do note there are very, very few schools I’ve never heard of on it. We’ve seen many, many schools we’d never heard of driving to visit colleges we were looking at. Making a blanket statement that any school is ok for top med schools can be just as misleading as anyone thinking it has to be Ivy or similar.</p>
<p>FTR, they were not one of the schools who told us they won’t interview from schools not on their list. They were the only one who gave us a website similar to this. Perhaps one could search and find others. Between visits we made and this site we felt we knew “enough” to guide us in our search. Kiddo needs to actually go to college and decide his future from there. Right now he’s undecided between doctor and med research, but leaning doctor. </p>
<p>We’ve homeschooled him since 7th grade (really poor school district), so I mainly lurk on here to glean guidance counselor info. This forum has been terrific for that (helped us avoid pitfalls)! Our visits were last year - well after we could have made many “high school” mistakes had I not gleaned info. I’m sharing what we learned on those visits specifically from Q & A answered by actual top 15 med school admissions people just in case others want to glean too. I know based upon answers I read that one could come away thinking any of those 4000 colleges one sees off signs along the highway are equal when it comes to med school preparation. While that might work for state and lower rated (not “bad”) med schools, it doesn’t appear to be the case for at least a couple of top med schools. </p>
<p>I’m not even sure my guy will want a top med school or med school at all. I just don’t want to burn bridges for him. He’ll go to a school that fits our budget and can get him anywhere he wants to go when he decides. He’s applied to 6 he liked, already been accepted to 3 (with significant merit aid) and we’re waiting to see if he’ll have other choices. Like many, he’s still getting brochures, but I don’t think he’s going to choose any others to apply to. He’s kind of written off 2 of the 3 he’s been accepted to already (picked his top of the 3). In case you’re curious, mom2collegekids, the top of the three is Alabama. 
I won’t mention the other two because I don’t want to offend others who love them. They are good schools.</p>
<p>Also note… we’re aware that Alabama (not UAB) doesn’t make Wash U’s list, but they have gotten undergrads to similar caliber schools - or so we were told. To us, that means they fit what we’re looking for. The other two he’s been accepted to are on that list - all similar caliber.</p>
<p>I hope we are not moving into direction of SDN. Thinking about Med. School in HS does create certain “pushy” situation, while HS’er should just enjoy his/her HS time and friends and prepare to do the same in UG. Pushy time do not need to be pushed, they will come to the one who enjoy his/her life and work hard to achieve the unltimate goals. They still have life to live and so much is changing in very short time, that you will have to figure out all over again. Not having previous knowledge will actually help. Relax, enjoy.</p>
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<p>SDN? Not aware of that meaning.</p>
<p>If you were referring to me, this particular son came to me in 3rd grade and told us he wanted to be a doctor. Like any parent of a 3rd grader, we smiled and told him that was fine, but didn’t chisel it in stone. He’s never wavered except to consider research. We’ve told him countless times even as he visited colleges, etc, that it still isn’t chiseled in stone.</p>
<p>However, there is absolutely no medical background in our family of any sort (engineering, math/industry, military, teaching, college profs). Finding out info sure helps rather than hurts.</p>
<p>We’ve never pushed this kiddo one iota. He’s all self-driven. We have two others from which to compare and I work in our local public school seeing hundreds, or actually, thousands over the years. (This is the same school we withdrew him from after 6th grade based upon what I see personally. Youngest is back in our public school - supplemented at home - since that fits him better personally. Each son of ours gets the best education for their future based upon what they tell us they want to do.)</p>
<p>creekland…nice to see uab did make the list for washu :)…</p>
<p>*we’re aware that Alabama (not UAB) doesn’t make Wash U’s list, but they have gotten undergrads to similar caliber schools - or so we were told. *</p>
<p>I have no idea if any/many Bama pre-meds ever applied to WashU. WashU is not a school that kids think about much in this state. Not once have I ever heard a student with a Wash U interest for undergrad or med school. Pre-meds here lean more heavily towards applying to: UAB, USA, Vanderbilt, Duke, Emory, Tulane, Harvard, Yale, Columbia, NYU, SLU, G’town, UMiami, and maybe a few others. Kids here also often only apply to less than 10 SOMS…sometimes only 6…and have success. My son’s friend only applied to 5 SOMs…accepted to 4. Their apps seemed to be very targeted to where the Advisors think they’ll have the most success…and perhaps where the advisors know who will be reading the Committee Letters that they send out.</p>
<p>That said…if that list only includes those who enrolled and doesn’t include who was ACCEPTED, then we really don’t know which schools’ applicants they extend acceptances to. It appears (to me) that that list consisted of matriculated students.</p>
<p>I see UNM also made the list----and according to USNWR UNM is a third tier school.</p>
<p>So WashU SOM isn’t all that selective in its list of 'acceptable schools". Top 300+, not Top 30.</p>
<p>(BTW, I know at least one of the UNM grad at WashU. She’s MD/PhD track too.)</p>
<p>I think it just proves that undergrad isn’t as huge a factor as most people seem to think.</p>
<p>This is interesting…</p>
<p>Undergraduate majors from the [WashU] 2011 first-year class included</p>
<p>•Biology
•Engineering
•Mathematics
•Chemistry
•Physics
•Liberal Arts
•Science
•44 students had completed two or more majors </p>
<p>I’m guessing that these are listed in order of popularity of majors. Glad to see engineering as second.</p>
<p>For those unfamiliar with the SDN reference made a few posts up. Student Doctor Network is a website with a forum similar to this one except geared towards pre-med and medical students. The kind of posting that goes on there makes this forum look like it’s filled with slackers and apathetics.</p>
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Parents of a premed generally dare not go to SDN (shiver!); at least most dare not post anything there. Even here on CC, once in a while, some young ones who are themselves in the “premed battleground” might come along and accuse these CC parents of being helicopter parents. (One posted that, unlike it was years ago, parents have “Occupied CC” these days. LOL.)</p>
<p>I did learn from DS in past that when some (but not all, but likely 20% to 40% of them, especially those of a certain ethnic group) of his peer premeds start to complain about their parents, they almost can not stop complaining. They just did not do so (yet) in front of their own parents and many parents just naively believe their S/D is not one of these 20-to-40 percenters. So parents may sometimes need to “behave themselves” (e.g., bit their tongue when it is not a productive comment) in front of their loved ones.</p>
<p>Interesting what we can take from the WashU list. There are some anomalies. Why does next door Illinois do so well and Mizzou do so poorly? (Kristin??? What’s up?) ) What’s the deal wth BYU, Utah, and Utah State? 
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<p>But by and large it’s probably what I expected with a little bit of a mid-western touch and conference nod. ;)</p>
<ol>
<li>WashU- 207</li>
<li>Harvard- 88</li>
<li>Duke-79</li>
<li>Stanford-72</li>
<li>UC-B-51</li>
<li>NW-48</li>
<li>Michigan-48</li>
<li>Yale-46</li>
<li>Cornell-46</li>
<li> Illinois- 42</li>
<li>Princeton-41</li>
<li>MIT-39</li>
<li>Brown-38</li>
<li>Hopkins-37</li>
<li>Rice-listed in two places-37</li>
<li>UCLA-36</li>
<li>Penn-36</li>
<li>Dartmouth-28</li>
<li>UVa-28</li>
<li>Vandy-26</li>
<li>Wisconsin-24</li>
<li>Chicago-20</li>
</ol>
<p>Then throw in 34 from AWS (Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore) and another 26 from other top national LAC’s (Pomona, Carleton, Davidson, Grinnell, Haverford), 12 more from the forgotten Ivy (Columbia), another big bunch (37) from the same “Nerdy Conference” WashU plays in (Hey. I didn’t coin it. ;)) like Brandeis, Case, Rochester, Emory, NYU, Tufts, CMU, and finally, another sizable mess of kids from the other UC’s (31). </p>
<p>Well, that just about sells me on the idea that what UG you go to might just make a lttle difference at this school. But I could be wrong. </p>
<p>Draw your own conclusions (I’m sure everyone will) but the same kind of numbers (in general) appear at the one other top med school I have the numbers on.</p>
<p>BTW. For those that don’t know, my kid’s UG school is NOT on that list. And it didn’t hurt her that much, either. So, yeah. Wherever you go, shine as brightly as you can.</p>
<p>* There are some anomalies. Why does next door Illinois do so well and Mizzou do so poorly? (Kristin??? What’s up?) ) What’s the deal wth BYU, Utah, and Utah State?*</p>
<p>I noticed the strong Utah showing as well. Makes me wonder if certain schools have ties with certain med schools…like the undergrad advisors are alums or know the adcoms. </p>
<p>That’s why I mentioned that at my kid’s undergrad, the applicants seem to apply to a certain group of SOMs…connections? networking? Something is going on. Shouldn’t surprise us…it’s like prep schools that tend to direct their students to a certain group of colleges where the GCs know the Adcoms.</p>
<p>
Like Goldwater? When you got one of these awards, you are already more competitive than the one that has any perceived or real boost that any prestigeous college could give you. This is the reason why CCers often said you could succeed from almost everywhere.</p>
<p>mom2ck: When DS was applying to colleges from a public high school, he was applying to only those schools which previous students from his high school had been admitted into. In his medical school application cycle, his cirlcle of applicants circulated a rumor that a certain medical school in the mid-west (not the research power house whichespecially loves the numbers rather than the “soft skills” or heavier-than-usual clinical background) had not admitted any student from his college year after year, so why bother applying there?!</p>
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<p>Thanks for the info. I don’t feel the need to check it out. I see my job for my guys as Guidance Counselor, not pushy Helicopter Parent. ;)</p>
<p>I think part of the difference in our points of view might be in our local school experience. Where I went to school many moons ago (public, semi- rural) a decent number of students (percentage-wise) went on to Ivy and similar caliber schools. We had our share of drop outs too, but in general, kids were guided toward their niche. At the time our school was considered the 2nd best public in my state (not my current state) based upon standardized testing (state test - all college bound students took the tests across the state).</p>
<p>Here, where I work (semi-rural, public), our school stats are below average for our state and the country. Our school is on the 2nd year of “warning” from NCLB. Kids (IMO) are equally capable, but the education is lacking (to be brief). Even our top college bound students choose low level schools with rare exceptions. Those exceptions tend to not be Ivy. In my history of working there I can only recall one student getting accepted into an Ivy and, if I recall correctly, he had a hook. It’s been a few years - my memory might be off. I wasn’t that interested in colleges when mine were in elementary school.</p>
<p>So, I think most of you are looking at colleges and seeing a “list” entirely different than the “list” I see as “normal.”</p>
<p>On one of my less tactful moments I was in our Guidance Office talking about colleges and mentioned my guy was planning to use Pittsburgh as a safety. One of the GCs asked me to repeat what I said, so I did. He shook his head and said he’d never heard of anyone considering Pitt (main campus) a safety before. Catch what I mean?</p>
<p>Pitt is one of the other schools my guy has been accepted to with merit aid, but since they have turned out to be extremely unfriendly to homeschoolers who aren’t with a “third party” agency, they’re off his list now. They actually sent a letter telling us that if we can’t produce a final transcript from a third party then they won’t guarantee spring semester admittance… uh, yeah, like I’m willing to gamble paying for fall semester and then being dropped spring semester? Our state (also PA) doesn’t even require third party transcripts, so I’m not quite sure how one of our state related schools does, but there are enough others out there who can see the forest even though there are trees that we don’t need them.</p>
<p>(I’m aware that getting “permission,” or whatever, is probably a formality, but with his having Ivy stats we’re just plain insulted that they also feel we need to pay a third party to issue a transcript - just to ensure he’s been educated up to his public school peers - very laughable considering our school.)</p>
<p>mom2ck. I was going more with Mormon on the Utah connection/speculation. But , really, I don’t have a clue.</p>
<p>Drury is easy to “connect”. It’s in Missouri. And the HBCU’s are explainable. But Gustavus Adolphus? I got nothing. lol</p>