<p>It's difficult to tell if Ballet Girl's proposal is facetious, or simply specious. She is entitled to that view to be sure. But it misses a simple reality. People and schools have personalities and traits that are as important as scores and GPA's. And as random as the admission process seems to thoseof us on the outside, ask an admission officer if there was a plan involved and they will certainly tell you there was. Just because we don't know or understand the plan, doesn't mean there isn't one. I think Dan's emails highlight justhow much though goes into trying to create the "best" class for Tufts each year, however they define that. The only thing I know is that they do NOT define it as the kids with the highest SAT's. </p>
<p>As for the fractal math comment, I am surehe used that as an example of an interesting kid. None of the kids I have met at Tufts, my kid included, would appear to be anything other than very bright, very well spoken, and very rounded young adults.</p>
<p>Both the United States Military and American colleges are both on the same kick right now: driving home an idea that self-worth is inherent to each human being. The military is doing it to prevent suicides.</p>
<p>Dan, thank you for your post. It was very thoughtful, but in my opinion it also humanizes the whole application process as it reminds us that there are actually people who read our essays and analyze our grades, scores, and ECs. I really hope to get the thick package from your admission committee.</p>
<p>^ Who wouldn't want to get that thick Package? :? Sadly I know that I wouldn't get one. <strong>sigh</strong> I would give my life to get that package. But advance congratulation to all who is getting that package as I might not be able to congratulate you on that day (I would be too sad to do anything that day) </p>
<p>ChiDad2008 and WCASParent -- You find this heartening??? Tell it to the thousands of extremely well qualified Tufts applicants who will be rejected next week. Dan's mea culpa is weak and self-serving.</p>
<p>It's not that I agree with Balletgirl, but I too was a little offended that the more tragic the story the more likely the acceptance. I just think there are a lot of personalities and upbringings that don't encourage spilling your family dysfunction on the table to be dissected by a bunch of 20-somethings. This has absolutely no bearing on your academic/intellectual curiousness or your ability to contribute to the larger community. </p>
<p>On certain levels, I strongly agree with opening the doors of opportunity to those who might not otherwise have the chance, bu I find the kind of affirmative action described in this article not as a way to offer opportunity or level the playing field, but give preferential consideration depending on a personal "story." </p>
<p>One might wonder, then, if they are given special consideration, do they track retention of this specific group of students to see if their efforts are paying off in terms of success and achievement. Because frankly, THAT would be the more convincing and heartwarming story. </p>
<p>In fact, i believe Amherst had one of those exact stories on the front page of their webpage not too long ago.</p>
<p>Just to make the numbers real -- about 13,000 Tufts applicants will get rejections letters next week. Tufts has already secured 500 of its targeted 1300 students for the class of 2013 through Early Decision. To achieve the required 800 additional students, Tufts will accept about 2800-3000 applicants next week. It received over 16,000 applications.</p>
<p>I guess I don't really see your point? At any competitive school, far more applications are received than can be admitted. Students are very aware of this when they apply. And?</p>
<p>Yes I've read it. I guess I just don't understand the big deal about getting rejected from a school. I know you seem to think it's an arbitrary process. And if it is, then good, I'm sure each student who gets rejected from Tufts will get in somewhere else. I think any student can be happy at any school they end up at so long as they go in with an open mind and make an effort to get involved in things they're passionate about so they'll meet like-minded people. If they aren't, they can always transfer. So when all these high school seniors get so wrapped up in the process and start equating their self-worth with admission to a certain school, I think the whole thing is just a little ridiculous.</p>
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So when all these high school seniors get so wrapped up in the process and start equating their self-worth with admission to a certain school, I think the whole thing is just a little ridiculous.
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<p>Well said, and I think more people need to realize that.</p>
<p>I don't think wanting a positive outcome after working hard for four years and involving yourself in the process is the same as it defining ones self-worth. If it does, of course, there's a lot more wrong than identity. Actually they are probably behind quite a few "chance me" threads.</p>
<p>^ No one thinks that wanting a positive outcome after working hard is wrong.</p>
<p>I know I mean, and I'm pretty sure TWOJumbo would agree, that we're talking about the sentiment of "if I don't get in, I'll die!"... and actually meaning it. Or, as you put it, what is behind a few of those "chance me" threads.</p>
<p>First of all, I loved reading this whole thread. The dialogue and discussion has been great - I would probably admit balletgirl if I was an adcom just because she is fiesty and would add a lot to a classroom.</p>
<p>I can see her point (not that I agree-just look at what that has done in Japan) and as students we are ALL individuals and want adcoms to see us as such but getting it on a sheet of paper for a one shot deal is problematic. Then counting on the fact that colleges want "individuality" is where I but the blame on the marketing departments of the colleges. Therein lies the problems for the adcoms. It is much easier to get those pesky test scores/gpa's out of the way and then address individuality. In doing so, many great kids, who have been fooled into getting their hopes up, get left behind. The advantage (if you can call it that) of coming from a poor neighborhood, background, or some disadvantage comes in at this point. (sorry, this probably sounds confusing!!)</p>
<p>The real lesson for all of us going through this is to look to our futures. These schools are all great but it is our own doing that will make us who we will be. Balletgirl is just venting the frustration that we all feel on some level! I applaud her courage and spark and know she will thrive no matter where she ends up.....Go girl.</p>
<p>I have absolutely no problem with the Boston Globe article. While the author obviously chose to select a few examples that he thought would make for a more interesting article, the following point comes through loud and clear: that because Tufts - like all other "most competitive" schools, gets far more applicants with top board scores than it could possibly accept, the admissions process involves much more than the objective numbers, and the AdCom takes very seriously its mission of putting together a diverse and interesting class. I would be surprised (and frankly disappointed) if Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell, JHU, Northwestern, and other schools that are fairly comparable did not engage in similar processes.</p>
<p>I see nothing wrong or unprincipled in the way the article describes how Adcoms go about their work. Indeed, they pretty much do what they say will do -- consciously engage in a holistic process to forge an outstanding class of accomplished and interesting people. They define accomplishment through the prism of opportunities each kid has faced, all the time projecting their ability to succeed at Tufts and to be self-actualized adults in life. Granted this is a gallant, heroic task. And no, they are not God. Not even close. But making choices is what they are paid to do. And they do so conscientiously, painstakingly and empathetically. I for one laud them......</p>
<p>I read The Boston Globe article and my opinion of Tufts went way down. It's not that I don't think that they should be looking for those "diamonds in the rough" or striving for diversity--but the underlying assumptions were very offensive. Poor students=virtue. Those from drug infested backgrounds or such=virtue (we'll just ignore those silly stats when it comes to these special kids). Just think what those kids could do if they had what those spoiled suburban kids had! Yeah--those suburban kids who work their butts off to excel at school and at life and who, it seems, are expected to get those high stats because they have every advantage after all (and someone needs to keep the school average up for the magazine rankings). Who it seems, are judged by a wholly different standard. I can only imagine the conversation--"great grades, but why is that CR score only a 650? They probably took a prep class, couldn't they do better?" Oh, only raised 5K for Relay for Life--ho hum--dime a dozen. Probably just trying to look good for college."</p>
<p>It's not that I have a problem with looking beyond the obvious for kids with "troubled" backgrounds--but it's the assumption that this is worth so much more than a great kid who isn't a hardship case and that these non-hardship cases have had it easy. What high school kid today who is competitive for these schools has it easy? You can hear the adcoms making assumptions about kids that are totally speculative based on their own prejudices. Not exactly a process to laud.</p>
<p>And now that the 14 hour days are behind me, I have time to return to this thread and answer some of the accumulated questions buried within. Bear with me as I work my way through the questions.</p>
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I often hear that in order to get into Tufts applicants really need a really high SAT score. Does it mean that students with low SAT scores have no chance of getting in?
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<p>Academics, first your transcript then your testing, are the most important part of the admissions process. That's the quantitative side. The softer your academics are, the stronger your qualitative pieces need to be - recs and essays. Low is a relative term, but a student applying to Tufts as a 'stretch' or 'reach' school need their application to really sing; you want the people who read your application to fall in love with who you are and what you will bring to our community. We admit students below our averages all the time, some well below our averages, but we do so because we are compelled by the voice and talent presented.</p>
<p>But no one is admitted based on academics alone. Even the strongest students with the best testing need to instill their application with a presence. An app that presents itself as all brains and no wits has a difficult time in our pool. I love that we work the best combination of intelligence and personality that we can.</p>