<p>This could work, and should be applied to jobs as well. It's so unfair that I am not selected out of a pool of applicants for that high paying job. The decision was so random, it's unfair. And my house isn't as nice as some others, shouldn't we have a lottery to see who gets what house as well? Fair is fair after all.</p>
<p>50 year old mom here. Little in life is fair... One can hope for equitable...which is a different thing. We had a rough day in our house yesterday and hope that Tuesday brings better news. Dan, you have been very helpful and honest with your responses to our questions. Thanks!</p>
<p>Still, there seems little reason for some of these decisions...(not speaking of Tufts here...we have not heard from Tufts yet.) As I read through these posts and as I hear app results from my S and his friends, I am astounded at some of the decisions by some of these schools. </p>
<p>I have a few last questions:
How easy is it to discern fact from fiction in these apps when there is so much love and so few spots? If you take the high road in the application process, are you at a disadvantage?</p>
<p>My S's app is 100% honest. We did not deny that both his step-dad and I are well educated. However, he did not take any SAT courses other than a few books purchased at the bookstore. In his comment section, he commented on the stability of his relationship with his step-dad... (that was a mistake!) as a good thing in his life. He did not write that his grandfather is an abused spouse by his grandmother who is a raging alcoholic...(which he should have). He did not say his bio-father is a dead-beat and that he is owed several hundred thousand dollars...which he won't go after because he does not need it...(Moral character seems to work against a college acceptance letter.) I could go on. But you probably get my point...</p>
<p>My second question: (My apologies if this is in the wrong string) If you don't recalculate GPA...how do you account for the difference in "differential" for AP/Honors courses for students from different schools? For example: our town gives a .3 for AP/Honors courses and rarely gives As as grades in these courses per policy. Two towns over they give a 1.3 and kids can graduate with a 5.3. How can a 4.0 compete with a 5.3 without recalculating? The school profile sent with the transcript does not explain these policies at all and I am sure that as admissions officers, you don't have time to deal with these nuances? I have been curious about this for the last four years and would be thrilled to learn how you figure this all out? </p>
<p>Thanks and best wishes!</p>
<p>
[quote]
My second question: (My apologies if this is in the wrong string) If you don't recalculate GPA...how do you account for the difference in "differential" for AP/Honors courses for students from different schools? For example: our town gives a .3 for AP/Honors courses and rarely gives As as grades in these courses per policy. Two towns over they give a 1.3 and kids can graduate with a 5.3. How can a 4.0 compete with a 5.3 without recalculating? The school profile sent with the transcript does not explain these policies at all and I am sure that as admissions officers, you don't have time to deal with these nuances? I have been curious about this for the last four years and would be thrilled to learn how you figure this all out?
[/quote]
The school profile should at least contain how GPA is calculated and how many AP/honor courses are offered.</p>
<p>Adcoms can't really do anything about grade inflation in certain high schools. That's why there are SAT scores and essays to weed out those who clearly didn't deserve their GPA.</p>
<p>
[quote]
How easy is it to discern fact from fiction in these apps when there is so much love and so few spots? If you take the high road in the application process, are you at a disadvantage?
[/quote]
Depends... If you've done something spectacular in high school adcoms expect you to elaborate on it. Someone fabricating their credentials probably wouldn't be able to accomplish that very well.</p>
<p>Verbal.. you are true to your name. Excellent and compelling point of view.</p>
<p>I think EmptyNestToBe hits on the theme of packaged vs non-packaged. It is true that I don't think there was anything slick about son's application. His answers werent fancy or even that depth revealing. Don't know if he got into Tufts or not. But I think if kids are embellishing their resumes just because they can (vs having applications go through GC offices vs online submission), I think they run a big risk of not only being rejected from school A but school b, c, d. If a high school found out, I don't think most would hesitate to confirm or deny the truth of certain things. After all, their relationships with colleges extend far past one kid or one admission season.</p>
<p>Verbal,</p>
<p>You represent my view as "the inherit (sic) differences that colleges have in campus environment, faculty preferences, and geography is (sic) irrelevant." </p>
<p>I do not hold this perspective. I do believe, as Schwartz says, that:</p>
<p>'High school seniors trying to get into the best college are on a fool's errand. Chance factors (eg., ones first year roommate or Bio 101 teacher) will have a bigger effect on success and failure -- satisfaction and disappointment -- than the tiny differences among schools that are within the range of acceptability. Decision scientists Detlof von Winterfeldt and Ward Edwards wrote many years ago about "the principle of the flat maximum," to describe situations in which random variation or measurement error was larger than the differences among the things being measured. It's a pretty good bet that when it comes to differences among highly selective institutions, high school seniors are operating in the region of a "flat maximum."'</p>
<p>Of course there are differences among the most selective colleges, they just have a much smaller impact than the overwrought (and emotionally over-invested) among us would suggest.</p>
<p>Ignoring the pretentiousness of using sics on an internet posting, I think you still aren't seeing the difference between "range of acceptability" and "random placement among the nation's top 40 universities."</p>
<p>I applied to eleven different universities, the majority of which have a number of common traits. I of course would prefer some over others, but on the whole I know myself well enough to know that I will be able to be successful and happy at any of them. However, looking at a much larger list of universities, I am not sure I can make that claim. </p>
<p>There are certain traits about universities that can not be changed by assigning students randomly. NYU will never have a real campus, and it will never have a residential college atmosphere. Rice will always be in Texas, and Vanderbilt always in Tennessee. Caltech and MIT will always have facilities and professors trained to be inclined towards certain disciplines. Wisconsin will always have 28,000 undergraduates, and and Reed will always have 1,400. This isn't even mentioning the financial aid unfairness that would result from random placement. </p>
<p>I realize your proposal was more of a thought experiment than anything, but I think the impracticalities of it make it difficult to use even in that light.</p>
<p>Verbal, I cannot agree more with what you wrote above me.</p>
<p>I chose to come to Tufts for a reason. I had a list of other acceptances (including one of the <em>oh-so-prestigious ivies</em>), but I chose Tufts over all of them. Why? Because I liked how I felt when I stayed at Tufts. I liked the city of Boston. I liked having the School of Engineering so tightly integrated with the School of Arts & Sciences. I didn't choose Tufts just because it was a top-tier school. All the schools I applied to could be classified as top-tier. I chose to come her because I LOVED Tufts itself.</p>
<p>There's SO much more to school than just prestige... Not one school I applied to was south of Maryland. I don't like warm weather. That GREATLY affects my decision when it comes to picking a school where I will spend four years of my life.</p>
<p>
[quote]
There's SO much more to school than just prestige... Not one school I applied to was south of Maryland. I don't like warm weather. That GREATLY affects my decision when it comes to picking a school where I will spend four years of my life.
[/quote]
Ha I absolutely hate Boston. Downtown is so small and boring, the weather is terrible, and everything is so expensive. </p>
<p>I grew up my entire life here and was forced to go to Tufts because of financial reasons. Of course the only Ivy I got into was north of Boston, so I guess I was academically shackled to this terrible piece of land we call New England, even if money wasn't a factor.</p>
<p>SoCal or Manhattan for law school... I will accept nothing less ;)</p>
<p>Manhattan has Columbia and NYU law school while Cali has Stanford. I'm hoping to go to law school in four years too, hopefully Yale. I loved it when I visited, but I didnt bother applying because it was impossible</p>
<p>Stanford is in North Cal, although if I got in I would seriously consider it.</p>
<p>But yea my top 4 choices are UCLA, USC, NYU, and Columbia. U San Diego and Tulane also fit the profile, but I don't know if I could justify going there over much more prestigious ones in New England.</p>
<p>Detail: Boston and NYC have just about the same type of weather. lol.</p>
<p>But Manhattan is super awesome while Boston is boring. Plus I wouldn't have a car in Manhattan so no more shoving a foot of snow twice a week.</p>
<p>As a side note, if you're going to have a car at Tufts live downhill so you can use the free indoor garage.</p>
<p>You don't really need a car here, anyways, and while obviously New York is much larger than Boston and has a lot more to do, there's plenty to do all over Boston.</p>
<p>Haha, btw you honestly wouldnt need a car in NY either. Its the best thing ever- the subway, the city, the sights, its all the best. And seriously, there is a lot to do, but there are just some things that are overrated. For example: statue of liberty and empire state building are both supposed to be amazing... but I never found them so great. But you will never get tired of NY. Its just one of the places that takes your breath away 100% of the time. Go for Columbia, its worth it</p>
<p>
[quote]
You don't really need a car here, anyways, and while obviously New York is much larger than Boston and has a lot more to do, there's plenty to do all over Boston.
[/quote]
But it's so convenient! What if you and your friends have the urge to go to iHop at 4am? Can't really do that without a car...</p>
<p>But yea hebrew my opinions of Boston are biased because I've lived here all my life and was forced to stick around for college. It's really not that bad compared to most places in the world.</p>
<p>
[quote]
And seriously, there is a lot to do, but there are just some things that are overrated. For example: statue of liberty and empire state building are both supposed to be amazing... but I never found them so great. But you will never get tired of NY. Its just one of the places that takes your breath away 100% of the time. Go for Columbia, its worth it
[/quote]
hehe I'm mainly looking forward to the live concerts down the block, being within walking distance to the Met, the legendary house parties in Manhattan apartments, etc etc. I think everyone should live at least a few years in NYC at some point in their life.</p>
<p>Haha, yeah, the 4 am trips to IHOP are pretty much the only thing you need a car for, though.<br>
I've lived here all my life, too, and while I love Boston I can see how you might want to branch out a little bit.</p>
<p>I love how substantive the Tufts boards are, and I mean that in total sincerity.<br>
[quote]
I have a few last questions:
How easy is it to discern fact from fiction in these apps when there is so much love and so few spots? If you take the high road in the application process, are you at a disadvantage?</p>
<p>My S's app is 100% honest. We did not deny that both his step-dad and I are well educated. However, he did not take any SAT courses other than a few books purchased at the bookstore. In his comment section, he commented on the stability of his relationship with his step-dad... (that was a mistake!) as a good thing in his life. He did not write that his grandfather is an abused spouse by his grandmother who is a raging alcoholic...(which he should have). He did not say his bio-father is a dead-beat and that he is owed several hundred thousand dollars...which he won't go after because he does not need it...(Moral character seems to work against a college acceptance letter.) I could go on. But you probably get my point...
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Talking about those sorts of challenges isn't important unless it was a defining feature of your life. An applicant's goal - any applicant - is to present their strengths and abilities as distinct and powerful. If your son feels that those experiences do not define him or his abilities, then why write about them at all? Those external factors make an impact when they are woven into the larger story. Just because a reporter highlighted a single case that came up in committee doesn't mean that particular story is the path to admission. As for discerning fact from fiction; we rely on the honesty of others. If an applicant is pitching a story that isn't truthful, it's likely we'll find points of dissonance in the Counselor Letter or in a Teacher Rec. </p>
<p>
[quote]
My second question: (My apologies if this is in the wrong string) If you don't recalculate GPA...how do you account for the difference in "differential" for AP/Honors courses for students from different schools? For example: our town gives a .3 for AP/Honors courses and rarely gives As as grades in these courses per policy. Two towns over they give a 1.3 and kids can graduate with a 5.3. How can a 4.0 compete with a 5.3 without recalculating?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is why we read by territory. I've read the state of Maryland for the last 3 years; I know the difference between how Howard County calculates its GPA and how Montgomery County calculates its GPA. I know its easier to get an A at some Howard County schools than at others. I know that even though two students both have a 4.55 at the same high school, there can still be curricular differences that make one transcript much more impressive than the other. In every case, each student is read within the context of their school. No grade is viewed in a vacuum.
[quote]
I am sure that as admissions officers, you don't have time to deal with these nuances?
[/quote]
As admissions officers, dealing with those nuances is the job.</p>