<p>The reason that there's no exception for "my parents won't pay" (as opposed to "my parents can't pay") is that every family would use that exception. We have made the decision that we will do what is necessary for our d to go wherever she wants to go. However, if it were that easy to get a full ride at college, don't you think we'd say, "We won't pay" in a heartbeat?</p>
<p>" she does do great things for me. She pays for my car insurance, my clothes, my clubs and tests and college apps... And I get to do cool things like go skiing or boarding on spring break, or scuba diving on weekends, or any miscellaneous things like that."</p>
<p>and you want other people to pay for your college?</p>
<p>"doctorsboy: Well my father simply won't support me out-of-state. He'll give me something if I remain in-state, but he doesn't appear to believe my college education is that important."</p>
<p>So, he is willing to pay if you stay in Florida. You may not like Florida, but at least you're fortunate enough to have a dad who'll pay something for your college education.</p>
<p>" My mother says she'll support me if I abide by the rules of her house... But she's got somewhat inhuman expectations of me. I know I won't live up to them."</p>
<p>So, you're not willing to follow your mom's house rules to get her to pay tens of thousands a year yo for your college. </p>
<p>I don't have sympathy for you. You don't know how cushy your life is. Case in point:
"She pays for my car insurance, my clothes, my clubs and tests and college apps... And I get to do cool things like go skiing or boarding on spring break, or scuba diving on weekends, or any miscellaneous things like that. "</p>
<p>My dad was a dentist who refused to pay for my college. While I was in h.s., I was cleaning someone's home, working as a cashier (both during the school year), and in the summer, I worked 2 jobs -- a total of 60 hours a week -- to pay for college. I did not have cushy vacations. I did get to go to the expensive college of my choice -- with help from my mom, loans, work study and scholarship assistance (I think that because the college saw that I literally had been working my butt off to get the $ for college, they found a way to give me some grants even though my dad was a dentist).</p>
<p>In your case, however, it seems you want others to pay for your college while you lap up the good life. I don't think that colleges will consider you for need-based aid. You could get merit aid, however, if your grades are strong, and you can take out loans and work.</p>
<p>"was that it seems, from my perspective, unfair that a child with no parental support and poor parents has a colossally better chance of making it out-of-state than a child with no parental support and rich parents. "</p>
<p>Actually, the poor kid probably doesn't have a colossally better chance of making it out of state. The things that are no big deal to you -- clothes for a different climate, transportation, phone bills, etc. are a big deal to poor kids, and even with their scholarships, most poor kids still can't afford to go out of state to college. Indeed, they are lucky to be able to go to a college where they can live away from home.</p>
<p>You want to go to college out of state? Work part time jobs during the school year, fulltime and more during school breaks. Take out loans. Carefully apply for any merit aid that you may remotely qualify for. Apply to colleges that offer generous merit aid and where you'd be in the top 10- 20% or so of applicants. Such colleges usually are ones that would be considered safeties.</p>
<p>Excellent post, northstarmom</p>
<p>I think you are going to be O.K. First of all, New College ranks #1 public LAC, so that stay in state is not that bad. You could add study aboard to it and have good time with snow and mountains. You also have the option of being very nice to your mom during next two months, follow her rules, and get her to pay for your dream school up north. Once you are away, there will be no house rules.
Education is important, don't let your ego get on your way.</p>
<p>Just2 and Chedva,</p>
<p>Perhaps I should have said "inherently imperfect process," rather than "unfair."</p>
<p>(BTW, I am not addressing OP's particular circumstances. I agree that s/he seems to have viable options.)</p>
<p>My point is that while gaining admission is the student's accomplishment, whether or not the student can actually attend is in the hands of his/her parents, if the parents are "rich."</p>
<p>As far as I am aware, other than the onerous (and extremely admirable!) route taken by Northstarmom, there is no financial avenue for the child of rich but selfish/over-extended/whatever parents who will not pay. (My understanding is that emancipation for financial aid is difficult to obtain).</p>
<p>So while a Harvard admit with selfish/overextended/whatever parents making $59k will go to Harvard for free, a similar admit with parents making $300k doesn't get to go.</p>
<p>The children are punished for the "sins" of their parents, in essence.</p>
<p>(Sorry if this topic has been debated to death already - I haven't perused this thread for very long)</p>
<p>Big drift on the original thread but to Bay...</p>
<p>One can also state the kid whose parents make $59K, therefore he can go to Harvard for free, most likely has a standard public education, not much chance he had great college counseling, nor SAT prep classes. Great chance, if he got into Harvard at all, it was by working his tail off. Not to say that those kids of more afluent lifestyle don't work just as hard. Would like to know the statistics of full tuition for poor. How many qualify?</p>
<p>"So while a Harvard admit with selfish/overextended/whatever parents making $59k will go to Harvard for free, a similar admit with parents making $300k doesn't get to go."</p>
<p>A kid with low or even middle income parents who are selfish/overextended, etc. is not likely to get to Harvard at all. The kid would not have likely been able to participate in the ECs or to have gone to the quality of schools or taken the type of classes that would have allowed him or her to have the credentials to get into Harvard.</p>
<p>As for the kind of kid that the OP apparently is: If such a kid has the scores and ECs to get into Harvard or similar schools, such a kid also has the contacts to be able to find merit aid and other opportunities that would allow him or her to pay their way to college. This also might include selling things like a car, sports equipment or other things that their parents had given to them. In my town, there are kids whose wealthy parents refuse to send them to anything but an in-state public university, yet those kids are driving expensive cars like Hummers. If those students want to go to places like Harvard, then they could sell their Hummers.</p>
<p>Such a kid also is likely to have well off adult friends and relatives who may be happy to give the kid loans, gift money and well paying, cush jobs during the school year and summer. Such a kid also is likely to have teachers and guidance counselors with the time and sophistication to help the kid find good merit aid, and to write the recommendations that would help the kid get that aid.</p>
<p>As a person who has seen scholarship apps from kids from wealthy private and public schools as well as from kids from poor schools, I know that there's a big difference in what teachers and GCs do to help kids. The kids in the poor school district have overwhelmed, overworked GCs who spend much of their time helping students who have problems just getting to school and getting their high school diplomas. Those teachers and GCs don't have much time to go the distance to help students whose desire is to go to the top colleges in the country.</p>
<p>"So while a Harvard admit with selfish/overextended/whatever parents making $59k will go to Harvard for free, a similar admit with parents making $300k doesn't get to go.</p>
<p>The children are punished for the "sins" of their parents, in essence."</p>
<p>not really. If $300k/yr kids can go for free than every parent in the country would like to commit that 'sin'.</p>
<p>I do not disagree that kids from lower income backgrounds have a much tougher time even making it to the college app process than "rich" kids. It was not my intention to debate that point.</p>
<p>And obviously, EVERY parent would refuse to pay if it meant their kids could go for free. </p>
<p>My understanding of the philosophy behind offering financial aid was to prevent students from being over-burdened by or prevented from attending due to the exhorbitant costs of going to college.</p>
<p>Costs have skyrocketed to the point of obscenity. Expecting a kid to work his/her way through a $45,000 per year tuition seems so futile as to be laughable.</p>
<p>I'm merely pointing out that there is a "group" of students - i.e., the children of rich parents who won't pay - who seem to be left out of the FA equation. They need some sort of aid in order to have comparable choices to the "needy" and the lucky rich kids. </p>
<p>Perhaps a low-interest loan with a 65-year term? I don't know, maybe they are just out of luck and their children will be the ones eligible for the full rides in the next generation....</p>
<p>It's not just the children of rich parents who won't pay who are left out of the FA equation. It's also the children of middle/upper middle class parents who live in expensive areas who are left out too. (OK, that's a topic that's been battered around a bit on other threads - forgive me.)</p>
<p>A child is always punished for the "sins" or "excesses" of his or her parents. The parents decide where the kid lives, what enrichment the kid has, where the kid goes to school, what the environment is like, whether the kid gets a car if the parents can afford it, where they vacation, etc. Financial aid is no different.</p>
<p>Good point, Chedva. I guess being born to the "right" parents really is the key.</p>
<p>I think we need to clarify again that the OP's parents are not refusing to pay for college. They're refusing to pay for an out of state college. He will be able to go to college, but probably not his first choice.</p>
<p>Your not alone!!</p>
<p>My parents wouldn't pay for me either, and they have money, so I couldn't qualify for student aid. I also had bad credit, so I couldn't take out my own loans. After I got married I was finally able to qualify as an independent student and able to go to school.</p>
<p>Florida has some really good schools though.</p>
<p>keep in mind that their are poor students who also don't get financial aid because their parents refuse to fill out the financial aid forms. I see those kids post here every year.</p>
<p>I will admit that the system is inherently unfair -- but so is life. </p>
<p>Students are welcome to join the military and serve their country and then apply as an independent student without needing to rely on their parents for financial assistance.</p>
<p>haha, wow! This thread has evolved into something I hadn't meant it to. You see, I initially wasn't going to describe my specific situation, because the question I was asking wasn't really meant to be about <i>me</i>. I was simply speculating, "Well what happens to a kid if his rich parents refuse to pay?"</p>
<p>I fully understand that I am a privileged child. And while I have certainly not outlined all the details of my situation, I also understand that what my mother asks for is not too much. This question, then, was originally meant to spark a conversation along the route Bay has headed - concerning the hypothetical child, rather than me.</p>
<p>I can also see Chedva's point. Every parent WOULD use that excuse if it were available. What I was searching for in this thread was, should a student be placed in such an unfortunate situation, what said student could do about it, if anything.</p>
<p>It sounds like loans and whatever merit aid can be garnered is the only way to go!</p>
<p>lol... obviously you people don't live in tampa (i do). i feel this kid's pain. :-P</p>
<p>eh, nasty situation. im looking at heavy oos costs, too - no way am i staying in this state. but that's a personal choice and i'm going to deal with it independently.</p>
<p>Renaissance,</p>
<p>To your hypothetical student: The student wouldn't be able to qualify for any type of financial aid which required the FAFSA so long as they were a dependent student as defined by the Department of Education. I understand how unfair this is....and have seen these types of situations quite often as many of the students I work with are working adults. I have had numerous students who make more money than their parents who have had to find alternate means of paying for their education because their parent refused to complete the FAFSA or provide tax documentation when selected for verification.</p>
<p>I think the only real solution to this problem would be for students and parents and financial aid officers to write their congressmen and protest the definition of a dependent student. It used to be, long long ago, that FAA's could do a dependency override and, when the evidence was sufficient, a dependent student could be made an independent student. While the rules were quite loose....maybe a nice medium between the old and new policies could work. But its up to Congress to change...which means that as taxpayers, it is up to all of us to force them to change it.</p>
<p>If a student is in that situation, there is something they can do. Move out of the parent's home, get a job, become self-supporting, and attend college once they get independent status. This would take several years. But the student is not powerless -- the student has the ability to take control of the situation. Alternatively, the student could join the military, serve, and then leave with money for college. </p>
<p>So, there is a system in place to help students with rich parents who don't want to pay for college -- it's called self-sufficiency.</p>