So, What Does One Say To This?

Parents Forum
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<p>Good memory, nan! Now that you mention it, I do remember the incredible young woman profiled in the Gatekeepers and the buzz about her. I guess she's an example of a "known" candidate.</p>

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<p>I do think this candidate is in the mold of the woman profiled in The Gatekeepers, who was also accepted everywhere (she ended up going to Yale).</p>

<p>He is a good student, first generation to go to college, and was born in Vietnam, which probably has an interesting story behind it.</p>

<p>For colleges who are seeking diversity, candidates like this are hard to come by.</p>

<p>I think it was the Gatekeeper book that said that colleges seek to put together a college class that is like a Brueghel painting? Very few applicants contribute to the picture like this candidate would.</p>

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<p>In cases like this I always recommend taking a gap year and applying again next year. Either that or consult a knowledgeable admissions professional.</p>

<p>But seriously, if the original posting of APRIL 1 is true, it once again reveals the value of a forum like this. How else would you ever learn of an applicant accepted to every Ivy league university? Only if a reporter dug up the facts and wrote a newspaper article. But here, complete with stats, background and essay info we can see what it is that every Ivy league university is looking for. Parents of 9th and 10th graders take note! and start crafting.</p>

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<p>^^ lol. </p>

<p>He's #1 in a class of 700+....fantastic, but...maybe I'm jaded by perusing over-the-top stats of CC people the past week...</p>

<p>He mentions he's not an underrepresented minority. Plenty of top students are born out of the US. His SAT's are great but I've seen enough valedictorians or close with 800's across the board who were rejected from schools last week. Stats like this can get you into some of these schools, but all??</p>

<p>Leads me to believe he hit a homerun with his essays (interesting topics esp the first) and/or out of sight recs.</p>

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<p>Why are we worried so much about just this one kid? </p>

<p>Given all the hundreds of thousands of kids who apply to the high-end schools each year, it shouldn't be surprising that there are a handful of highly-qualified ones who sweep the boards and get in everywhere they apply. And conversely, every year there are a handful of highly-qualified ones who somehow get the big nada (remember andison?).</p>

<p>So what is the problem here? Are we offended that he didn't follow the sacred Parent's Forum algorithm of how to build a list from the bottom up and yet he still succeeded? That the list of schools is diverse instead of focused on a cluster of look-alike schools, or worse yet that he committed the cardinal sin of applying to all eight Ivies? My guess is that, being the high-achieving son of immigrants, his college list was unsurprisingly full of famous schools. Not many immigrant parents are going to be knowedgeable enough nor culturally inclined to push their kids to dig out the nuggets of say Bowdoin or Middlebury.</p>

<p>I just figure he is one of this year's outliers. He put up some great stats and apparently wrote some great essays. Consequently he swept the boards -- good for him. Nothing to worry about. He'll do fine wherever he goes.</p>

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<p>I have not a "worry" at all about the boy. I am not so much surprised he got in everywhere, or applied where he did- only at his response as articulated in his post....and then....</p>

<p>I do wonder about #2 -50 or so in his class- I suspect he is in a public HS that sends a smattering of kids at most to the Ivies(or Stanford or Rice!) ....what would you be thinking if your child was #2 or 4 or 6 or 12 and were WL or denied...after he, having already been admitted to Harvard, just had to apply to all the rest of those schools....It is easy to say that the other compelling kids would have been accepted, too....but do we know that is always the case???</p>

<p>I am not saying he is not a deserving applicant...there is just a disconnect between the intellect that brought him all those admits, and the intellect reflected in his post.....</p>

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<p>No worries here, either. I do think, though, that beyond pure intellect and academic talent, there is emotional intelligence. From this kids' posts (and I admit we don't have too much to go on) I sense a lack of that important quality. He may not be deliberately grandstanding, but even assuming his motives are not sinister, at best there is no hint of empathy in his posts. I guess I'm a bit dismayed to think either that colleges are largely unable to discern a candidate's emotional maturity or that, even if they do figure it out through recommendations and the like, they may ignore it in the admissions equation.</p>

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<p>I am not afraid to throw an occasional criticism, and especially in the case of students who decide to -seemingly- compose a list of applications based on the exact rankings. However, are we sure that this is what happened here? </p>

<p>First, let's look at his "mentors" and the guiding lights in his life? </p>

<p>
[quote]
Counselor Rec: I know my Counselor extensively. She's one of my personal heros; we have long after-school discussions from time to time. I've known her since ninth grade; although, my school has many, many students, I have always made time to talk to her. Her recommendation letter was superb--at least, in my opinion. She really highlighted a lot of my personality and character attributes while mentioning my passions and motivations as well.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Could it be that this GC saw him as the opportunity for a pet project? The student is ranked high but his other stats are not stratospheric. Could that mean that the school he attends is far from a Blue Ribbon one, and might be one of those giant Texas high schools that shines by its mediocrity? </p>

<p>Further, what was the role of his family? </p>

<p>
[quote]
A GLIMPSE
i'm guessing this will probably end up being another useless glimpse: nothing worthwhile to say about the plainest, most empty boy you've ever seen. he's a boy in a world lost beyond the blurring horizon; he's eighteen years old and roams cypress, texas where the sunsets bleed in twilight and the streets are all but daily acquaintances on summer-dominated seasons; he tries to escape from this vacant setting (but there's no exit.)
he enjoys: love letters, black and white photography, the sound of the rain hitting his window on lonely spring afternoons, unmetered poetry, old fashioned romantic comedies, hopeless romanticism, audrey hepburn, gazing at stars, midnight caf</p>

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<p>Xiggi,
I assume these quotes are from his other posts and his website...You show great kindness in your interpretation and assessment of his situation...which is obviously complex, or is certainly portrayed as such. Every action meets a need..... I also had the passing thought that the school wanted to announce their affiliation with a student with these sorts of results. Anyone who knows anything about this sort of intellect, however, has to appreciate how precious little any given school probably has to do with it! ...All this said, my feelings about his actions are..well, pretty much as before..</p>

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<p>Give this kid a break, parents! I see no lack of empathy for others. I see a kid who applied to a bunch of well-known schools, not knowing if he would get in, and probably not being able to afford to visit them to find out if they would fit. He could very well have applied to all before December - thus applying before he found out the results of his EA application to Harvard. Not trophy hunting - just giving it his best shot. I don't blame kids who apply to a lot of schools. I think it is unfair for us to ascribe motives and examine microscopically a teenager's actions. He applied to a bunch of schools, got accepted, and now he is politely asking for guidance. Congratulations to him!</p>

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<p>The OP is impressive, no doubt about that. And, besides NE schools' interest in attracting students from TX, his background is also somewhat unusual and he has a way with words in describing it. It may not be unique among Vietnamese students, but they are not present in huge numbers at Ivies, unlike the UCs. Interestingly, the one school that seems to have turned him down is a TX institution--Rice.</p>

<p>That some applicants sweep the boards every year is not in question, either (see the record of Katwithkittens' sons). What Roby questioned was his desire to apply to all Ivies after being admitted EA to Harvard and visiting none of them so that he now is asking for advice in choosing from among a list of extremely disparate schools. I'm not suggesting that once admitted to Harvard EA, that should be it for anyone. But applying to all 8 Ivies?</p>

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<p>I guess "worried" wasn't the right word. I didn't mean worried in the sense we are concerned he might actually come to harm. Perhaps I should have said why are we so "exercised" or "worked up" over this kid?</p>

<p>He's basically a kid who didn't develop his college list and collect his acceptances in the way that we think is Right, and hence we are annoyed. But it worked for him. He may be collecting skins to hang on his wall, or he may be just be naive. Or like Xiggi says, maybe he is simply a pleaser responding to the adults in his life.</p>

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<p>Marite - he states in his first post that he WAS accepted to Rice Interim Decision. (And we crossposted. My guess is that he applied to all schools at once, before results from Harvard were announced, and that he could not afford to visit schools.)</p>

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<p>Exactly!</p>

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<p>Gee, then I guess I am just overly sensitive in thinking that a kid on the Columbia or Yale or Cornell board who applied to 4-5 Ivies and maybe has a WL or two out there and no acceptances might not feel 'empathy' and cameraderie with this young man? As I said in my original post, I was perplexed by his apparent naivete- are we to assume he thinks there really are a lot of others who 'share his stress' and 'are in the same position as he.' AND, I found it compelling that he had evidently, to this point, done nothing more than look at the list of the top whatever schools, but now was claiming that he didn't want to use that information alone to make his decisions.....smacks of disgenuousness....(is that a word?)....</p>

<p>There is no 'right' way to do admissions. A while ago there was a thread on 'what did you do right'. I read it and never posted. DId you do 'right' just because you got into 7/8 schools or 12/12 or whatever. Well, I guess you did 'right' in terms of success in admissions...I interpret 'doing right' a little more broadly I guess....maybe I just 'overthink' things in general...</p>

<p>So, this boy evidently did everything right from the perspective of some, and a little less than everything right from the perspective of others...everyone and no one....</p>

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<p>I usually defend students who apply to all the Ivies , recognizing that it is such a crapshoot that they may not have the luxury of attending their best fit school. My problem with this particular poster is that he had been accepted EA to Harvard. Even if he had already sent in all of his applications, there is no reason he couldn't have withdrawn some of them. </p>

<p>I know that some students choose EA over ED precisely because it gives them the chance to apply to other schools. But in my opinion, that should mean two or three more schools, tops. There is no reason that, even without a visit, you can't narrow down your choices more than this student did baased on availabale information. And whatever adcoms claim, I believe it does hurt other students in your high school to do something like that.</p>

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<p>Who among us would have guessed ahead of decision time that the young man in question would be as successful as he turned out to be with his applications? Yes, he's accomplished but not extraordinarily so based on objective measures alone (with the exception of class rank). </p>

<p>He strikes me, through his OP, as polite, humble, and overwhelmed. Who wouldn't be? Some info suggests that he may be economically disadvantaged. Maybe he took advantage of the common app, application fee waivers, etc. Maybe he applied to all those schools at the same time, before the Harvard EA acceptance notification. Many people, adults and students alike, post to these forums on the fickle nature of admissions. How could he possibly know in advance which of these schools would accept him? He lives in Houston and applied to Rice, an excellent school he probably is very familiar with, maybe even viewed by him as a backup. He posted his query to multiple CC boards, but he specifically asked for input from alumni. Why not? Which forum should he have posted in to reach the widest audience?</p>

<p>His choice of essay topics struck me as most idiosyncratic (a good thing).</p>

<p>We all tend to look at the world in a solipsistic way at times, as I did when I read the OP through the link on this thread. My S just went through something similar in applying for summer research internships. It was completely unexpected. Maybe the OP, like my S, sees himself as qualified but not particularly special. Maybe the OP, like my S, was thrilled by an early acceptance but didn't know if it was a fluke. Finding out it wasn't a fluke and having to make a choice brings another shock: unrealized opportunities on the roads not taken, no matter how utterly different those roads may be from one another. </p>

<p>Why not give the OP the benefit of the doubt? So his dilemma isn't common; but that doesn't make it any less anguishing <em>for him</em>. One thing that surprised my S was the subtle differences among the four schools he applied to (all from the HYPSMC group). All excellent but very different schools, all with great programs in his area of interest. Yet in his dealings with the four, two were clearly head and shoulders above the others based on the criteria of personal attention, responsiveness, organization and planning, general helpfulness, and graciousness. Who would have guessed that in advance? (And S has only visited one of the four a few years ago -- not one of the "good" two!)</p>

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<p>Yes, I misread about Rice. He did get in. Good point, too, about applying to many schools before knowing about the Harvard decision.
Still, S was ready to send more apps if he did not get into Harvard EA. He told his GC, teachers, etc.. to hold off sending their recs until he told them to. He only sent in the app to Stanford because it was due the day Harvard's decision was to be announced. Once he heard he was in at Harvard, he notified Stanford right away--though it made no difference as he got admitted there anyway! He saved us several hundred dollars by not going down his list.</p>

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<p>I'm not sure I can put my finger on it, but something about this kid gives me a bad taste in my mouth. So, I'm with Robyrm here. I know that some colleges will only accept one or two kids from a high school, and they do compare applicants from the same school. So there very well might be kids at his school who got shafted because he was accepted. And there are so many kids hurting out there right now, having been denied by all their reaches, that reading about his "problem" has probably caused more pain. </p>

<p>I also find it curious that money does not come into the picture at all. Has he gotten the same financial aid packages from all the schools? He doesn't mention what he wants to study, either. </p>

<p>Academically, Brown and Columbia are at two ends of a spectrum. Dartmouth and UPenn look and feel totally different. I can understand wanting to go to an Ivy, but paring down the list based on some criteria makes sense to me -- especially once he got accepted to Harvard. </p>

<p>Wonder how his dorm-mates will react freshmen week if he goes around talking about his tough decision given his complete Ivy acceptance list?</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I'm not sure I can put my finger on it, but something about this kid gives me a bad taste in my mouth

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Perhaps it has to be disingenuous to present the acheivement of one of the most difficult accomplishments possible by a high schooler as a problem.</p>