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<p>This is a problem… say I applied ED at Swat, as our young friend on these boards did, but do not have the FA offer in hand. And it comes very late. Are you saying the student should TELL these other colleges (say, Carleton) that he has an ED acceptance elsewhere and is waiting for the finances? Which pile do you think his application will go into at Carleton if he does this? I would guess it goes into “there is a reason to reject this kid” pile.</p>
<p>There are always going to be horror stories, we’re always going to be able to find someone who got screwed. And, there will still be people who “assume” that, with their stats and their hs popularity, the world will come knocking and everything will work out for that individual kid.<br>
Caveat emptor.<br>
Frankly (and this may sound harsh,) the Swat kid could have known enough about finaid to know that his family financial position wouldn’t get 35k, on an income over 150k (or whatever it is now.) It wouldn’t even get 35k at Harvard. I am kind of surprised kids are “smart enough” to aim for some competitive school, but not enough to dig for the rest of the relevant info.</p>
<p>Gawd, I turned the finaid issues round and round, over and under and assumed nothing. If my kid were still waiting for the FA letter (and the school had already asked for addl info, etc,) I’d be ready with Plan B.</p>
<p>For families with genuine high need, it’s equally critical to be up on your game. I am not astounded kids apply ED. I am astounded how blindly they go into all this, relying on hearsay, one or two lines they read somewhere, or their hopes.</p>
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<p>It is not the kid’s fault that his parents were dumb about this. And if his family is like many (heck, most), he does not have any idea how much money his parents make or how they make it. I don’t think “the Swat kid” should have known better. His parents could have, though.</p>
<p>dodgersmom -</p>
<p>That hypothetical student still needs to be able to compare packages. College A might be full with no loans, but require a student contribution that would have to be covered by a loan because the student lives in a part of the world where there are no summer jobs whatsoever (I have family in that situation). College B might include loans, guarantee an on-campus work-study job, but throw in a book allowance. College C might offer a true free-ride, books, computer, require no work-study, and be a cheap bus ride from home so the kid can visit family easily over school breaks. </p>
<p>And frankly, it is difficult for me to believe that a truly impoverished wonder-child would be more likely to be admitted ED than RD. That student would be someone that the ED-type institutions would be happy to grab up, period. Heck, they grab the really good ones right away off the Questbridge list.</p>
<p>It’s a tough call for that very high need hypothetical student, because without the admissions bump of ED, they might not even get admitted to one of those super-reachy full-need-with-no loans schools. So if they don’t go ED, they will be able to compare offers, but the one that maybe would have been the best won’t be on the table at all.</p>
<p>Some of my friends who work in admissions at a private school told me much of the ED “bump” is from kids who might or might not not have been admitted RD, but they have a feeling they will be full pay. They said they can tell this without looking at financial aid forms by parents occupations, etc. They feel some pressure to admit kids who won’t ask for lots of financial aid. I can understand that, especially at a private school. My professor brother in law described ED as being for “rich, dumb kids.” I don’t agree. I think that’s extreme. But I do wonder if ED is any kind of an advantage for kids with financial need.</p>
<p>Mathmom post #25 Hits it right on the noggin. Anyone who doesn’t think there is a significant bump applying Ed, isn’t dealing with today’s reality.</p>
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I’m not so sure about that. If the kid doesn’t communicate with Carleton, he risks Carleton tossing him in the reject pile anyway, because he has an ED acceptance, and hasn’t turned it down. He also risks being blacklisted for not withdrawing his other applications. </p>
<p>The other option is to talk to Swarthmore and ensure that they will not report to other colleges that he has accepted their ED offer - which is completely true. Agree, it is a risk telling the other college they are not your first choice, but they know this is often the case.</p>
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<p>This is why, contrary to the instructions and conventional wisdom, that children should not be filling out FAFSA or CSS/Profile forms or inputting the information for NPC (if they need to be relied upon). A lot of the CSS/Profile questions should set off alarm bells in parents who make over $100k from unconventional sources (not just W-2 wages) or own a business.</p>
<p>IMHO, the Swat kid would probably have gotten $35k from Harvard.</p>
<p>We chose not to allow our D to apply ED to either of her 2 highly selective school choices. We are self employed and it is easy to have your income look higher than it actually is. If you borrow money to finance the business or capital expenses, the expenses are typically depreciated over 5 years or so, the loans may go on for much longer. While the interest is an expense the principle payments aren’t but you are still paying them out. The information I’ve seen (I am currently working to finish the CSS Profile) is that they ask for business loans (for the purpose of determining business value) but not payments. The business value can be deceiving as well. First, unless you have hard assets you can sell, it is only worth what a willing buyer would pay. Since most of us need our business income to survive what it is worth is irrelavent until you choose to retire and baseless as a means for determining means of aquiring college funds. I know I cannot borrow against the value of my business. </p>
<p>I really feel that if one can afford a private school and chooses to go, great. If you can’t then it’s best to not to apply ED. Apply RD and see what happens. I know schools like NU and others had an increase in the number of ED applicants and admissions this year. I wonder if they’ll have a significant increase in those who back out of their ED agreement because of lack of financial aid.</p>
<p>My opinion: apply ED if the reasons are good. I don’t think “dream school but I’m not the best qualified; maybe ED will bump me” is really a good reason. Long term, it may not be the right move.</p>
<p>BUT the adults must know what they can pay, what squeeze they could add to that- and how they will finance this. The kid must know, if the offer isn’t right, that school is not a consideration, that “dream school” includes affordability. Ie, front-end thinking.</p>
<p>D2 applied ED. I knew (ok, was pretty sure) from D1’s aid experience what the college was likely to offer, some bracket amount. I wouldn’t finance a car without knowing the monthly payments; too many families take on the 240k hill without enough info. D2 chose to apply ED because she was settled on that school, she had a back-up plan.</p>
<p>I do agree there’s only so much a hs kid can understand. Earlier, I thought OP and a few others should lay this out for kids, make a master post. I know there are other threads, every year. But, I am not sure we can so easily get past this thing about assuming so much about what is really a kid’s “first big move” in life.</p>
<p><a href=“College Cost Calculators Offer Clarity and Confusion - The New York Times”>College Cost Calculators Offer Clarity and Confusion - The New York Times;
<p>Article about difficulties of using NPC</p>
<p>Apply ED if you have someone who is right with you who truly knows all of the ins and outs of ED. But if you need money, two financial aid gurus from this board, whose parents have been through college process, would say they would not do it even for their own kids, and did not. And you can count me in that boat too. I would not want to be remotely on board for these crazy twists that can happen and the student and family’s guts are wrenched from all that happens. When it works, it’s beautiful, but the downside is too much trouble.</p>
<p>I think the dreams kids have entering the fall of their senior years can change by May of their senior year. The very brightest of our children have lots of options and choices when it comes to schools and I think they deserve to have some choices in May.</p>
<p>We are full pay. ED was not a choice for either of my kids. We did not even consider it.</p>
<p>There are cases, I will say where it’s fine. Some kids have a clear first choice or absolutely know they will have no regrets and will be kissing the ground if they get into a certain school or schools, and are using the better chance route to get into one. If you can pay, fine. But if you need money, there is a risk.</p>
<p>One of the counselors at one of my kids’ high school told me they got terribly burned with an ED gone bad that is a true nightmare. High need, single parent, clearly PELL eligible, got into a top all needs met school with a NCP waiver and life was good. Except upon verification at the end of the year, info came out that made the school rescind the NCP waiver. Apparently dad was in the kid life more than indicated. And he makes enough to make the kid ineligible for that school’s PROFILE aid, and they are not budging. So the kid had no school since he didn’t do any other apps since he was accepted ED with a great estimated package in Novermber. I see so many of these things go bad.</p>
<p>If people do dumb things it doesn’t mean Ed is bad. There is NO downside to applying ED . It’s real simple. If Fin Aid pkg isn’t enough than you don’t have to go. All your other applications go forward.</p>
<p>Have you been reading anything I wrote? There are a number of downsides and it is sometimes not that simple. You send early estimated info. Your NCP gets married in December and your ED estimate could be toast and you have already withdrawn your apps if you even sent them in. That’s one real life situation right there. Read all of the things that can go wrong. Sheesh.</p>
<p>^ I’ve read all that you wrote. I just don’t agree with most of what you have to say. YOU DON’T WITHDRAW OTHER APPLICATIONS UNTIL YOU DECIDE THE FIN. AID PKG IS ENOUGH !!!You use a few individual “horror” stories to denigrate ED. When used intelligently Ed is the best chance for applicants to get into the school of their choice. If you can’t see that than you don’t want to.</p>
<p>Rebel-It’s not that simple. Cptofthehouse’s example in post #17 is a good example of a common situation. Applicant applies to Amherst early and receives a disappointingly low FA award. Knowing Amherst’s reputation for excellent FA, should the family take on an uncomfortable level of debt under the assumption that the FA award is as good as it’s going to get? Should the student take his or her chances that Williams will better the offer? By turning down Amherst’s ED offer the student poisons the well. There’s no way to go back later and accept Amherst’s offer if other schools don’t come in with a higher award.</p>
<p>I say this as the parent of a kid who applied ED and is happy with the results: ED is a luxury not all families can afford. It’s a reality with which kids who need FA have to contend.</p>
<p>Sue, I don’t understand your points. Ed is proven to help your chances of admittance. If Fin aid pkg doesn’t work you have as many Rd Apps. as you want to consider. How is #17 harmed by ED? It’s just another option they have. No one has shown me a harmful downside to ED.If there is one than it’s you won’t be able to compare choices in the spring.Small price to pay for maybe getting into your dream school ED vs not getting in RD. This is from a parent of an ED Penn admit class of 2017 who needed and recieved Fin. aid.What about passing up an ED pkg. in hopes of getting something better??? and instead you get less, from a less impressive school. If your looking for guarantees, there are none.</p>