<p>I understand the whole "separation of powers" and "one hand of the government shouldn't know what the other is doing" but there comes a point where it's ridiculous. Shouldn't Congress modify the tax code so the FAFSA can pull IRS data automatically? </p>
<p>It's more than just the inconvenience -- there are some parents who are too uneducated / unwilling to fill out the FAFSA or provide W2s or for example, are hicks who think their kids need "toughening up" and want their kids to join the military.</p>
<p>I think the public good exceeds whatever individual benefit there is from hiding IRS data from the Department of Education. The risk of anyone at the Department of Education misusing such data is miniscule. It’s not like the IRS is releasing that data to the FBI or the NSA.</p>
<p>It might come to that in the future. We’re closer to this than before this year. But for now, our tax returns are safeguarded from being accessible directly on line. by a number of steps that make it cumbersome and time consuming to get that private information. It can still be fraudulently accessed, but not so easily and quickly. </p>
<p>It still requires additional information, most notably the asset statement that has to be completed. By using information that a person has directly inputed for that purpose, it also serves as a cross check.</p>
<p>Finaid presumes you have the interest and ability to provide the needed details- or ask for help. For some, that’s unfortunate. All of us have had spots where we couldn’t understand a question and the help center was confusing.</p>
<p>Don’t forget, these sorts of conveniences require someone to develop and refine the right programming. First, there has to be a clearly defined goal of what should be available and who has access to how much. Colleges shouldn’t have to hire additional staff to pull the same info you have on your paper copies of the tax forms. And, I don’t want anyone to have a full copy of mine on their desk- that might not get shredded or could be open to all sorts of eyes.</p>
<p>Really, to me, the overall “public good” isn’t more accessibility to my info.</p>
<p>A while ago, I asked if the
FAFSA info could be harvested from ones online tax filing tool (one of the tax prep software programs). I know that Turbo Tax was beta testing this, and there were others where limited info could be obtained from the tax prep software.</p>
<p>But really, once your taxes are completed, all you have to do is COPY the correct amount from the correct line on your taxes and put it on the FAFSA. That is pretty easy.</p>
<p>While I’m not one of those parents, and frankly don’t have a lot of respect for those who are, I also believe that the last thing we need is Congress deciding on the amount of financial support anyone is obligated to provide for their adult children.</p>
<p>^ I know the CSS phrases many questions as “your parents” or “you,” presuming the student is filling out the Profile forms. Can’t remember how Fafsa is worded. In theory, at least, a student headed for college should be able to complete the paperwork. Many students are, in fact, better educated than their parents and should be quite willing to get involved with finaid. Not toss blame.</p>
<p>It is a problem that there are children who have parents who won’t or can’t care for them. That they will not pay for their college or release their financial information is the least of the problems that come from such people, By the time a student is of college age, s/he is legally an adult except in a few areas, one of which is for college financial aid purposes. CPS has their hands more than full going after those who are neglecting/abusing those who are minors.</p>
<p>No that’s not what I’m implying at all. If their parents aren’t well-off (a lot of these parents aren’t), their children can still get some aid, and the students can work the rest.</p>
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<p>Done right, it could efficiently automated and regulated. I don’t know why Americans love unnecessary bureaucratic pains and think to seem lack of information-sharing among government departments is a good thing. It’s like government inefficiency is cherished. This would be a “doh!” thing in Japan, Singapore, Taiwan and South Korea.</p>
<p>The American education system could probably learn a few things from the efficiency of Asian governments.</p>
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<p>…and this is a huge barrier, why? This would be easy to write, even with the checks and balances.</p>
<p>What’s your dog in this race, evita? If parents are not well off, they CAN get aid and the kids can work, etc. But, they have to have the basic smarts and concern to fill out the forms. If parents can’t, then the kid should take over. Get help, as needed. Get it done. </p>
<p>Easy to create a massive program to interface colleges and the IRS? With security checks, limits, verifications, timeouts, just the right info sent and nothing more? (Look at how long it took to get the I-9 verification system straightened out- if it is.) I don’t think any old crappy program is the answer. Nor can I justify the expense. All because “some” parents * are too uneducated / unwilling to fill out the FAFSA or provide W2s or for example, are hicks who think their kids need “toughening up” <a href=“They%20can%20fill%20out%20those%20IRS%20forms,%20but%20not%20a%20Fafsa???%20%20I%20find%20the%20tax%20forms%20far%20more%20complicated.”>/i</a> And, what makes you think having it automated will get those parents to sign an authorization to probe and provide ssn’s, enough to verify their identity, etc? </p>
<p>Just out of idle curiosity . . . if these hypothetical parents are incapable of copying data from the tax forms onto the FAFSA form, how did they complete the tax forms in the first place?</p>
<p>No, it’s that the parents are unwilling to fill out the FAFSA forms.</p>
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<p>Why do Americans always think in “massive” terms? Singapore implements income-checking and financial aid in a highly efficient, clean, lean and sexy manner. In fact, it’s so streamlined that they can easily award Edusave bursaries to the top 25% of students if the would-be recipients have family incomes below a threshold.</p>
<p>It would not be a massive program. You might not even need to hire that many more people (a few dozen, at most, to code and maintain the communication databases). The Dept of Education or the colleges would then simply pull info off the database, which would have checks and balances programmed into it. </p>
<p>Have you ever studied cryptography or information assurance? The problem is much easier than you think. It’s more than just encoding data-- there are entire schemes meant to ensure the security and integrity of information even when transmitted through an insecure medium (such as a go-between or a bureaucrat).</p>
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<p>They don’t need to obtain the parent’s SSN through the parent, just through the child, who has means of knowing it.</p>
<p>Also, pulling data directly from the IRS costs the nation less money in the long run – for one, it reduces the likelihood of errors. Otherwise, colleges still have to pull data off the FAFSA which might not even be correct, because audits on FAFSA data are performed so infrequently. In contrast, it’s a lot harder to fabricate income on tax forms.</p>
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<p>duh? I have always filled out my own FAFSA form; I estimate everything myself.</p>
<p>I thought we already did this. My parents used the IRS data retrieval tool to automatically load their and my IRS return into the FAFSA. It worked smoothly and we weren’t required to be verified.</p>
<p>Yes, but your parents had to authorize the transfer of information. No third party is able to transfer it for you, which is as it should be, IMO. It’s great that the direct transfer option is possible, but I do feel that privacy concerns rightly restrict access to IRS data. Only IF one wishes to have that information shared should it be shared. Of course, if the parent is selected for verification and refuses to authorize a transfer, the kid is out of luck as far as finaid is concerned. But that is the parent’s decision. Maybe it’s not “fair,” but it’s the parent’s personal and private information.</p>
<p>Then the parent shouldn’t have had a kid. The privacy concerns are trivial when compared to the greater good. The utility such information would have for society far outweighs any risk. Income verification is automatically and efficiently performed elsewhere in the world in many developed countries.</p>
<p>There are so many examples of Asian efficiency - China’s implementation of the death penalty for example. When it comes to making government more efficient be careful what you wish for.</p>
<p>I believe the release of information should be left up to the individuals, not automatically accessed by the government. I doubt that most kids know their parents social security numbers, if the parent doesn’t want to cooperate on filing FAFSA there is usually a reason - not a good reason, but a reason none the less and they already risk penalties and perhaps jail time if caught in tax evasion.</p>
<p>I’m not sure I understand the point of this thread. When authorized, the data CAN be retrieved from the IRS information. </p>
<p>As with many things in this country…it is a choice whether you want to use this tool (of course if you are verified it sure is a good choice). But the reality is that the IRS info MUST be accurately put on the FAFSA form regardless of whether this is automatic or not. The info gets there and it must be accurate…falsifying it is fraud.</p>