So Why Is All This Debt Even Allowed?

Paying for College
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<p>I just want to throw out there that for lots of families, a four-year college education is NOT attainable without debt. Now, I understand that kids can go to a two-year community college, etc, etc, etc, but I think most families have the expectation (and maybe that's wrong) that their children will be able to go to SOME traditional four-year school. And for lots of families, that means debt, even LOTS of debt. I know that some state universitys are pretty inexpensive for in-state applicants, but that's not the case in every state. </p>

<p>"Back in the day" as my kids would say, it was cheaper for me to go to a private college than the state university. I still had to borrow money. The same is holding true for my children. They are getting better packages at private schools than at state schools. But ALL the packages include loans, and four years of loans means significant debt. So lots and lots of families are left trying to figure out which school will leave them with the least debt, but 'not going into debt' is just not an option.</p>

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<p>shreya: UVA was my only acceptance (besides admission to my state university, which is a given, given their admit rate of 79% -- I haven't heard back from them because my school forgot to send the fee waiver until I got a letter a few weeks ago!).</p>

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<p>Rather than why is the debt allowed? Which makes it sound like OOS schools are teh only game in town. I would ask-with all the opportunities to control expenses, why are families and students still considering high cost solutions?
They have been listed before.</p>

<p>+Using AP classes for college credit.</p>

<p>+Attending an in state public school.</p>

<p>+Attending an out of state school that has a reciprocity agreement with your state.</p>

<p>+Taking a year off after high school to volunteer with Americorps/work to earn tuition.</p>

<p>+Looking for schools that give merit awards and earning them.</p>

<p>+Attending a community college in state for two years.</p>

<p>+Working through high school and saving money for college ( most of D's friends do this)</p>

<p>+Not going to college or going to a vocational program.</p>

<ul>
<li>Attending a school that meets 100% of need.</li>
</ul>

<p>There are many options other than taking on loans upwards of $25,000 but we don't want to consider them, because in this country we are blessed with a 1001 ways to take our coffee & instant gratification for whatever we could possibly want to buy whether we need it or not.</p>

<p>I see students whose parents can't help for two minutes toward college costs, they are working full time and attending a community college part time, because that is what they have time for and what they can afford ( they don't live with their parents). This isn't the best scenario, but is what they are living with.</p>

<p>Yes, many people want to attend a 4 year school, many people also want to buy a house and have a full time job with health ins.
I think the first want is the most attainable.</p>

24

<p>Why is all this debt allowed? Debt is the fuel that runs our country! Without the massive debt load so many are taking on, we wouldn't be selling the products we are selling. The house of cards our economy is built on is coming down ... as the housing crisis seems to indicate ... but folks continue to rack up credit card debt. If the parents of the 18 year olds are used to living in a house with a huge mortgage, driving cars financed by large loans, and having things purchased on credit ... well, of course borrowing a ton of money for college is the next logical step.</p>

<p>As for me, I just say NO!</p>

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<p>Well, I am another one who says no. I think that a reasonable amount of debt is okay (under 20k IMO for the entire undergraduate degree, NOT per year!). Oh, kelsmom, and I guess like your family, my children do not have their own cars and I am mean enough to delay my younger one from getting his driver's license. Every month that I delay I'll probably save $150! That is a good motivator to delay, especially since I will also be worrying less when he is not driving. These large loans for college are ridiculous to even contemplate, IMO!</p>

<p>EK, so you can understand my community, the consensus is a bit different than your suggestions, which, btw are good suggestions for those in need:</p>

<p>APs-restricted, you can only get in with a high grade in an honors first and a teacher's rec.</p>

<p>No out of state reciprocity in NJ that I am aware of.</p>

<p>A year off, programs like americorp (never ever discussed in our hs),vocational programs, 2 year community colleges-all definitely not encouraged. They want to boast that 98% of their hs grads are sitting in 4 year colleges! This is vital in keeping up home prices, and what the taxpayer and homeowner wants. I can name 1 person in our hs who went to a vocational program, and a couple who went to </p>

<p>Working during HS is highly discouraged, except during summers. One wants to keep up those grades. There are a few who do because they really must. Working is wonderful, but $8/hour is not going to solve the problems for those gapped by 20k/year.</p>

<p>Schools meeting 100% of need- Great suggestion. BTW, financial need is never discussed within the HS when meeting with GCs. It seems to be an uncomfortable topic that is an unspoken taboo.</p>

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<p>NEM, S turns 16 tomorrow. He hasn't shown much interest in driving & we haven't pushed it. We also like the idea of holding off on the license in order to save the expense of insurance! Great minds think alike.</p>

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<p>I managed to get my S all the way thru HS and off to college w/o a driver's license. No need for a car in NYC where he goes to college. I told him there was no point in getting a driver's license since I would never let him drive my car (the cost of insurance in my area for a 16 yo boy would have been more than the value of the car).</p>

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<p>kelsmom, My S is 16 too. He took driver's ed in school and recently passed his written test. He wanted me to call up a driving school. I told him that I don't know how he can fit it in right now. He is currently busy with sports and doesn't get home until 6pm. It is great that he is busy with sports, so if I can make it until this summer, good for me! He needs 6 mos. of driving experience in NJ before he can take his road test. That will mean that he won't be driving until he is closer to 17.5 (6 mos. in insurance saved, which in NJ is about $900), and he will still be driving for a year and half before he leaves for college.</p>

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<p>A year off, programs like americorp (never ever discussed in our hs),vocational programs, 2 year community colleges-all definitely not encouraged. They want to boast that 98% of their hs grads are sitting in 4 year colleges! This is vital in keeping up home prices, and what the taxpayer and homeowner wants. I can name 1 person in our hs who went to a vocational program, and ..</p>

<p>I understand this.</p>

<p>Maybe an advantage of not having a college degree myself, I wanted better for my child & since she had attended schools where * she was the diversity*, we didn't feel like we had to stick with the mainstream.</p>

<p>Just graduating high school and doing well- was more than her dad or I ever did, so anything beyond that was just icing.
However- I also know lots of people who paid full tuition at Oberlin, U Chicago etc, but their kids also saved money by attending community college for two years or by using running start credits.</p>

<p>I think perhaps the people I know are more pragmatic. I don't think that the 5 years after high school are the only time when you can attend college.</p>

<p>I know a few people who identified their passion early on & have continued on that path through college, post doc- and beyond.</p>

<p>But I know many more others who, practiced law and were successful financially, but are now in school to become an educator. Physicians who developed issues that forced them into different aspects of the field, engineers who are loving their landscaping business.</p>

<p>Encouraging your child to be a different drummer, to find what makes the most sense for him, will pay off dividends for the rest of his life.</p>

<p>Trying to do what is expected, just to fit in- or because it is easy, isn't very satisfying and often is frustrating and exhausting.</p>

<p>The period of time in which many of us were raised- when you had 2.5 children, bought a new car every 10 years, and retired with a pension, is over. </p>

<p>Single family homes are being replaced with condos, a big percentage of city residents have lived here 5 years or less, and most people are going to change careers, let alone companies, more times than their grandparents could imagine.</p>

<p>It's great if kids go to college right from high school, but it also may be more appropriate for them to do something a little different.</p>

<p>( my youngest doesn't have her license, even though I have been encouraging her too, she doesn't have time to practice- my oldest attended college in a town with great public transportation on purpose & didn't get her license till she graduated college)</p>

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<p>galoisien said:
Okay I'm kind of worried at this. I submitted my financial aid late, and my single mother only started working last year. If I am an OOS student accepted into UVA, should I worry?</p>

<p>shreya.iitk responded
^ you should. Public universities are not meant for OOS students unless they are rich (and in that case why not go to a private university)
They don't have the kind of funds to provide a lot of aid to instate students leave out OOS students</p>

<p>galoisien and shreya.iitk,</p>

<p>UVA is actually one of the few state schools that meet 100% of need. Their access UVA program also limits the amount of loans offered to low income families (families that earn under 40K) </p>

<p>galoisien
I wouldn't breath a sigh of relief yet, because first I have heard that they "front-load" the loans (ie give the total amount the first year and then none in future years) and second because you say you did not fill out your financial aid information on time. (I hope you did both the FASFA and the UVA financial aid form as well)</p>

<p>(I don't know how to take someone's post and add it to mine so I just cut and pasted)</p>

31

<p>My mother makes 43k --- 3k above the threshold; but until January 2007 the family has had no income other than child support (11k a year) since early 2004 (and had no income between divorce in Oct 2000 and the start of 2003) -- will the limit still apply then?</p>

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<p>"My mother makes 43k --- 3k above the threshold; but until January 2007 the family has had no income other than child support (11k a year) since early 2004 (and had no income between divorce in Oct 2000 and the start of 2003) -- will the limit still apply then?"</p>

<p>This looks to me like a special case that you need to address directly with the financial aid department. Call them.</p>

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<p>One word: Republicans</p>

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<p>UVA offered my son a terrific FA pkg last yr and he was OOS. UNC was terrible. As a general rule, OOS students don't get much (usually loans if anything) but there are exceptions.</p>

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<p>I am sorry galoisien if i scared you. I didn't know particularly about UVA and assumed that most state schools give huge loans based on the experience i had.</p>

<p>Well it makes sense since Virginia is a very rich state. Regarding your special situation- get in contact with the fin aid office and tell them about your situation - send a mail and then call.
Hope it works out fine for you.</p>

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<p>Godsend, that is a foolish comment. And I'm a Democrat!</p>

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<p>It is all about personal choice, and that is the American way. I would be outraged if such offers were NOT allowed.</p>

<p>I'm with whomever said that some debt for college is inevitable, and why shouldn't it be? Other than home ownership, what is the most important monetary investment you will make in your life? Your college education.</p>

<p>Fears about inability to purchase a home, etc. are overblown from MY perspective. So you don't get a new car for 10 years. Boohoo. Purchasing a first home at 31 or 32, when the loans are paid off seems very reasonable to me. We purchased our first home at age 29 and were ahead of our peers. I was still paying student loans at the time, which only helped our credit rating. Besides, in 8 years, that loan balance may seem practically affordable.</p>

<p>I'm not saying to take on $200k if you have no prospects to pay it off, but why shouldn't the student take on a significant amount of the financial burden, rather than place it on the backs of the taxpayer or full-payers?</p>

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<p>I don't need a home. All I need is a tent, a sleeping bag, a gaming laptop, a handphone, one of those new wireless internet cards with a 20 mile range (or better yet, one of those adapters where you can use your handphone as a sort of wireless modem), a bunsen burner for cooking, a portable icebox, a lab or research facility in which to work, and a very good graphics card. And a bike. And lots of $0.50/ib pasta. And curry powders. And Eggo waffles. And a mini reverse-osmosis filter. I wouldn't mind living in an RV, actually.</p>

<p>Condo? Who needs a condo? The Rocky Mountains will be my high-rise view. Oh, an ultralight might also be nice, in that scenario.</p>

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<p>Joix wrote:</p>

<br>


<br>

<p>One should know the complete financial picture of the other person before
marrying the other. And get a look at the parents and maybe get an idea
of their financial situation. Besides checking out health issues too.</p>

<p>My son chose a nearby state university as he's very cost conscious. I told him that he could go wherever he wanted to but one of his priorities was to be close to home. He's had some severe health issues so that's understandable.</p>

40

<p>Well let's try a few more one word answers to join the already astute one worders. Predatory, profiteering, co-opting, corrupt...
Gentry the core reasons debt loads are so high is that our leadership has enacted a policy of abrogating its responsibility for educating the common and effectively turning funding for education over to privatization. Alas, and as a result students and colleges have little choice but to deal with these companies. The companies will tend to view students (and colleges for that matter) as cash flow assets. And since the Bush administration has removed many normal consumer protections from these loans, well it's orgasmic profits for these lenders. It seems students lack the lofty purity of Bear Stearns, there'll be no sympathy or bail out for them. Plus an action to correct the appalling and destructive debt load which is increasingly a normal condition of college, might get in the way of the obscene and easy profits. One major company made a billion dollars in profit last year, and as questions were raised about their practices they quickly moved into a private holding to avoid inquiries. Lovely and very profitable trade, as the guv'ment still covers for defaults, and they can still attack students for that same amount. And to protect the 'investment' many of these companies have effectively taken over the adminstration of school financial aid offices.
Student borrowers, be it past or if this mess isn't reformed, future students are caught in a system Al Capone would envy. Loans can be sold repeatedly without advising the borrower, and each time they are more fees are added.
Due to the sometimes failed promise of a college education, its not always possible for borrowers to immediately repay, so often the accrued interest and hidden fees can triple or worse the initial loan amount. Basically it's a racket that Capone would envy, and unlike Capone its unlikely there'll be effective government inquries into their activities.
For those stating that it's all a choice, no, society demands that people obtain these educations, but has no real intent to support that demand. The US, unlike certain other first world countries. has effectively handed the funding and control over its higher education over to corporate profiteers. And alas the colleges either by complicity or by insecurity have been cooperating with this trend. Increasingly it won't be a choice between 'do you want fries with that?" and education. At the exploding costs of education and debt, the graduates will be asking "do you want fries with that" but not able to actually buy fries because all their money and futures will be owned by an SL company.
As a country, we have failed miserably in our higher education policies, and have allowed private profiteers to hold a financial gun to the head of our own future...and it cannot last too much longer without a reckoning. The looming SL scandal and crises will probably break the financial back of a generation.
Depression anyone?</p>