So You Want to Be A Lawyer.

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<p>Yes. Basically, major isn’t really all that important for law school admissions. The vast majority of schools are extremely grades and LSAT-focused; only a few like Yale significantly incorporate extra stuff in their decisions. The only major I would really discourage is the pre-law major since they tend to do poorly on the LSAT on average but apart from that no major is unwelcome. </p>

<p>As far as crappy law schools are concerned; another thing that firms tightening their belts are finding in this economy is that it’s cheaper to higher a paralegal for many of the functions that a lawyer used to do. A lot of the day-to-day work of lawyers is paperwork which you don’t actually need a law degree from Harvard to do; a 2-year certificate from the local community college will suffice, especially for small businesses.</p>

<p>ABA accreditation would matter about as much as a magazine ranking, if not for state law. (There are other accreditation standards, such as the AALS, that we don’t hear much about.) States are free to set their own educational requirements for would-be lawyers, and many states have chosen to link these to ABA accreditation. California has its own separate accreditation process for law schools that don’t meet the ABA’s standards.</p>

<p>In any event, medicine seems to be the outlier here. Colleges and universities turn out massive numbers of MBAs every year; the number of people graduating with Ph.D.s in history every year is several times the number of openings for history professors every year. I also suspect that conservatories graduate several several classical violinists every year for every opening with a symphony orchestra.</p>

<p>People have a tendency to over-estimate their chances of prevailing against remote odds. That’s why we have casinos, and state lotteries. That’s also why movie stars have stalkers, and why a dozen or so people with experience as senators, governors or members of congress run mount a campaign for the U.S. Presidency every four years.</p>

<p>So, if no one is hiring, how hard would it be for a new law graduate to start their own practice?</p>

<p>Law firms are hiring, there are just fewer available positions due to primarily a decrease in corporate deals which causes a slowdown in other areas as well (intellectual property, real estate etc.) When the economy is bad, there is typically an increase in litigation positions, although this is a slower growing area in general. </p>

<p>Lawyers who do not do well in law school and then do not pass the bar exam on their first try will always have a harder time. A potential lawyer needs to evaluate their ability to do well in law school and their test taking ability. Increasingly, there are lower paying positions available to new lawyers and it is harder to pay back law school loans. Another consideration for a potential lawyer is their ability to manage the debt of law school.</p>

<p>Lawyers that start their own practice have a really tough time. Graduating from law school does not mean that you are trained to actually practice law - young lawyers need mentors. It takes about five years to truly be self-sufficient as a lawyer and even then, assistance from more experienced lawyers is often necessary. </p>

<p>Lawyers who attend well-regarded law schools (both nationally and locally) and do well and pass the bar exam on their first try will still do well in the legal market. In many mid-sized cities, law firms do not expect (nor do they want to recruit) Harvard Law School grads and they will still recruit successful students from their local well-regarded law school.</p>

<p>All that is needed is real data. Who cares if there are 500 law schools open? As long as the students going into them understand the debt burden and the future income potential what is the problem?</p>

<p>As of right now the data is 100% made up.</p>

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<p>Pretty much. And prospies buy it hook line and sink 'em.</p>

<p>Are hourly rates lawyers charge going down?</p>

<p>Are fees for services dropping?</p>

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<p>I think most biglaw firm rates are either staying where they are or rising; at least that’s the way it is at my firm.</p>

<p>So why aren’t the fees dropping if there are too many lawyers?</p>

<p>The fee structure at biglaw firms is changing; many clients insist on discounted rates.</p>

<p>That makes sense in today’s climate.</p>

<p>Again, I can say that rates have remained the same for all of our departments, except one. For that one department, rates have risen astronomically. There are no plans to decrease, from what I can tell.</p>

<p>I can also say that most lower tier biglaw firms have decreased rates, mostly because they’re in worse bargaining position with their clients.</p>

<p>Even other biglaw firms have increased their rates, but have still frozen associate salaries. Despicable.</p>

<p>But if the firm is a market-leader, it’s hard to imagine there being pressured into lowering rates. I cannot see, for instance, Wachtell lowering their rates. They’d probably sooner walk away from that client then give a discounted fee structure.</p>

<p>Too many lawyers chasing fewer and fewer big bucks corporate clients, then law firms split off and you have double and triple the firms chasing the same clients…meanwhile new lawyers not in the top 10percent of their law class are left to hang out shingles and chase ambulances, draw wills and do small stuff. </p>

<p>Lawyers also never retire. They practice until they die. </p>

<p>Wallstreet has imploded and won’t be back in the same fashion that it once was. </p>

<p>Not enough lawyers helping poor people and the vulnerable, because many of those clients don’t have the money to pay and lawyers cant obviously make a living doing pro bono three days a week. </p>

<p>Then you have the severe encroachment of accounting firms who are borderline practicing law without a law license. Doing incorporations and giving all sorts of “advice.”</p>

<p>Now people are heading to law school to hide from the bad economy. They better realize what they are getting into before they spend 100k on law school tuition.</p>

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<p>It’s not all made up. There really is a profession called “law”, for example. :D</p>

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<p>It seems to me there is a market failure taking place. As someone else pointed out, there is a gold rush to start low tier law schools and then entice unsophisticated recent college grads into mortgaging their futures in exchange for paper which will be worth very little. Basically, these young people are over-estimating the value of the paper they will be getting and under-estimating the consequences of taking on lots of debt to get it.</p>

<p>Now, you may be a libertarian type who believes the government should play no role in correcting these sorts of market failures. But in that case, at a minimum you should believe that the government should not be subsidizing these practices by having a guaranteed student loan program and giving student lenders preferential treatment under the bankruptcy laws.</p>

<p>If you take away subsidized student loans, some might argue that that cuts off access to all college for quite a few people. That seems like you’re using a sledgehammer to fix a problem that only affects a relatively small percentage of the college population.</p>

<p>Techerdz, biology is a great major for law school. Law schools have an abundance of applicants with political science, history and English degrees. If you fill a classroom with those students, the classroom debate lacks diversity. On my first day of law school, our contracts prof explained to us how we all “got there”. He explained that they wanted diverse backgrounds so that students would have unique opinions and experience to lend to class discussions and case studies. For example, discussing a case involving genetic engineering would be much more interesting with a biology major in the class! Our professor also explained that the formula for automatic acceptance into law school didn’t necessarily apply to students with science and engineering degrees, because the admissions committee took into consideration the difficulty of the coursework. I had years of calculus, physics and chemistry, so my gpa looked a bit different from other students! But with an undergrad degree in science and years in industry, I had something to offer, and I was often called upon to explain a concept that involved higher level math or science. I also had a completely different perspective from other students when we discussed cases with a science component. On the other hand, if a professor wanted someone to discuss the historical context of a certain ruling, I had nothing to say, but those history majors sure did.<br>
Depending on your course work, you may also be able to become a patent lawyer (you have to have enough math, etc., to sit for the patent bar). Patent lawyers are always in high demand.
As for the discussion about too many lawyers, I think there is always room for a good lawyer. The quality students will find jobs. Lots of people don’t even plan to take the Bar Exam or ever practice law. They get a law degree just as some might get an MBA. A law degree is a very useful advanced degree, I think, for anyone in business, even if you never plan to practice law.</p>

<p>Another vote here for “there is no problem that needs correcting”.</p>

<p>The number of newly minted lawyers is much larger than the number of retiring lawyers, so let’s just say for sake of argument that each year the total lawyer pool has increased by 3%. Unless 3% more hours are needed for lawyer services, those firms at the lower end of the scale will go out of business, those lawyers at the lower end of their firms will be let go. It’s purely a question of supply and demand.</p>

<p>Whom are we protecting by limiting the # of law schools? Who is to say to the 3.2 / 145 LSAT alum of Big State U that he/she should have no option to attend law school? what if this person’s stats were deflated because they were working full time during college, and then turns out to be actually quite bright and motivated and rises to the top of their lower tier law school class? What if this 3.2/145 graduate is actually <em>extremely</em> adept at reading social situations, possessed of a very high emotional intelligence, and is able to use those not-so-technical skills to be highly successful is working with clients?</p>

<p>Do we limit the # of freshly minted MBAs? </p>

<p>What if supply/demand were allowed to simply sort all this out? It’s not as though a graduate of a law school cannot eschew the profession of law and work in business as a manager or entrepreneur, and do quite well for having shaped his/her ability to think clearly while at law school.</p>

<p>I agree. The situation should be controlled from the data standpoint (let prospective students know <em>accurate</em> statistics about employment from that law school. Also, allow students to clear law school debt (via bankruptcy). I’m sure lenders will wisen up considerably.</p>