Soccer and Basketball Star-Must he choose?

Athletic Recruits
1

<p>Q for a friend:</p>

<p>Current junior, 6'6" guy, plays both soccer and basketball on regionally competitive club teams and makes the all-state in both sports.</p>

<p>He's academically qualified for Ivies, and would love to play basketball in that league.</p>

<p>His basketball club coach does a good job getting the team out to compete around the region, and is demanding he quit club soccer and focus on one sport for the duration.</p>

<p>The kid loves both sports and wants to complete in both senior seasons, club and high school.</p>

<p>Q's
1. Should he bend and focus on basketball?
2. What else should he be doing to be lined up to be a recruit for Ivy basketball?
2.a. Are there specific summer camps/showcases he could do on his own or would it be best for him to go to the showcases with his current highly successful club team?
3. If he walks away from club basketball is he doomed?<br>
3.a. Does he need the support of this coach to have a future?</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

2

<p>Interesting, first I think at the high school level he can continue to do both and should be encouraged to do so. Second playing at or attending an Ivy, near Ivy, little Ivy, Southern ivy etc… is a be all to end all since sport isn’t really the reason most attend an Ivy. Also, just because it’s an Ivy doesn’t mean that pure basketball/soccer talent isn’t the number one consideration-remember at most Ivies everybody has the scores/gpa for admission so talent is the real deal breaker. All that said he should focus on basketball if he has the most promise, but I’ll say this was he identified as one of the kids to watch during his sophmore season? Was he invited to any of the coaches special camps/clinics or was he contacted by them no later than his sophmore season. I say that because if he demonstrated his talent via AAU he would be on the radar in the 7th/8th grade, been contacted by 9th and under their eye by 10th grade even at an Ivy. In his school league does he compete against the elite privates(which seem to fill out the Ivy rosters/in addition to alums kids. Has his talent been assessed by someone from the coach establishment --not an AAU wannabe?</p>

<p>You should probably be contacting the programs that interest you based on NCAA guidelines if they have not contacted you----that means you have to let them know what talent you have,versus your talent having told them where you’re at.</p>

<p>Summer is always interesting did his team compete in AAU nationals? If so what division, because certain talent is only recruited at the highest level, but a good showing against that talent will get you recognized. Meaning Kentucky, North Carolina,Kansas Syracuse recruit talent-NBA level by the same token Duke, Stanford recruit the same talent as well as the same academic talent that Yale/Harvard/Brown/Princeton/Columbia might recruit,after that the Ivy talent falls off, but most people stuck on Ivies forget Penn/Cornell/Dartmouth where opportunity might have more potential.</p>

<p>If he walks away from basketball is he doomed??? doomed to what being 6:6 and consistently asked “hey where are you playin’ ball at?” Doomed not to go to an Ivy and play versus going to another private or a public and playing? No he’s not doomed.</p>

<p>Depending on talent level and his academic background, he may need some support that is why it is important that you reach out and establish the relationship with the coach.</p>

<p>one thing to note: you said his AAU team was successful, so is he the #1 or #2 player if so that he should be on the radar “somewhere” secondly your coach sounds like the typical AAU guy that is telling kids play ball and I’ll get you into school and the kids/parents are buying it. I think the real fact is that your kid is going to school and the only issue is which one and that is what the coach should be addressing, now if he has no experience in placing Ivy league caliber players which those types of schools he’s really adding no value to you son’s opportunities. But don’t be fooled the Ivies are about Talent—I have a kid at Columbia from Columbus, OH he was all-state football & basketball and attend a prep academy here where he was all everything well he’s a 2 point per game guy at Columbia, but he’s also a helluva student and has made some connections that my older son could only dream of sans shaking the Presidents’ hand this past September.</p>

<p>Anyway I wish you the best of luck, my daughter is going through the recruit process for fencing and when we were approached by a Yale coach about it she turned him down, and since then we’ve received more attention from him than some that we’ve expressed our interest in------but we aren’t hung up on the Ivy thing which is why I think they are interested in us.</p>

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<p>Thanks schoolhouse. You make some good points about reaching out to the coaches he’s interested in playing for. They can probably give him the best advice about whether to continue in both sports, and what to do this summer to make sure he gets the best shot at playing in the leagues he’s targeting.</p>

4

<p>How experienced is the AAU coach with placing players in the colleges you are interested in?
In our experience, the coaches were actually more of a liability because they had no clue and had to be handled very carefully to not mess up the recruiting process.</p>

5

<p>The two sports thing is tough. My son will be playing bball at an Ivy next year. His prep school currently has 11 alums on Ivy basketball rosters. There was one player that finished two years ago and is now playing both basketball and football at an Ivy. He may have been the best pure athlete to have passed through the school in several years. Although he competes effectively at both sports, his skills have not kept up with his athletic ability and have kept him from the potential that more focus would have brought with choosing a sinigle sport. On the other, he seems happy and is having a great time.</p>

<p>The AAU/high school focus question depends on the competitiveness of the high school and its profile with the Ivies. The Ivy coaches prefer to evaluate the player in the context of the high school team because the kids play together better and it is a better setting to see all of the player’s skills. If the high school has a high profile team and is on the circuit where the Ivy coaches recruit, the high school can be primary and the AAU club team becomes less important. If the high school team does not offer this, the AAU might have to receive more focus. Does the AAU coach and club have relationships with the Ivy coaches? Do they have a history of sending players to high academic schools?</p>

<p>I think that even if you feel that you have to focus on the AAU basketball club, you still might consider playing soccer at school.</p>

<p>It’s all very subjective. PM me if you would like to discuss more specifics. If he’s a junior now, he should already be on Ivies radar if he has the ability and falls within their recruiting world. If not, you need to make contact now. This is the timeframe where they are taking a 1000 prospects down to couple of dozen kids they are going to focus on. They are vetting their qualified prospects for admitability and interest. Their elite summer camps are important recruiting venues for the qualified prospects. Check out the Cornell Basketball Blog’s recruiting section (<a href=“http://cornellbasketball.blogspot.com/p/cornelll-recruiting-targets-and-ivy.html[/url]”>http://cornellbasketball.blogspot.com/p/cornelll-recruiting-targets-and-ivy.html&lt;/a&gt;) As you can see, each year 20 - 25 kids are recruiting and attend. Scroll down to the class of 2013. Do you know or compete against any of these kdis? Do you play at their level? You need to be getting identified at the point.</p>

<p>My son had an offer from a different Ivy the summer before his junior year. On the other hand, the school he chose he had not visited or had a sit down with the coach until the summer before his senior year. It can happen if you have the grades, the skill and communicate and focus effectively.</p>

<p>Best of luck!!!</p>

6

<p>I went to a roundtable on college sports and the concensus among the panelists was that being a multi-sport athlete is unusual and very tough at a D1 school … and much-much more common at D3 schools and actually the driving force of many of the athletes picking D3. For example, the rep from BC said they had 4 multi-sport athletes at BC (not counting track and cross country … but counting pairs like basketball and soccer) … the panelists who was an assistant soccer coach at Brandeis looked surprised and added they had more multi-sport players on the soccer team at Brandeis than across all of BC (this particular year).</p>

7

<p>I think the D3/Ivy distinction is very good-both offer the same amount of financial support (scholarships) for athletes–nothing. I think it would be VERY challenging to try to compete in 2 sports at an Ivy and all the various training that would be required. In high school, I STRONGLY suggest he stay with both sports, especially given his natural talent, however, keep in mind that his prospective school, especially since he may be a scholarship athlete for them (if he goes non-Ivy) may require that he stop playing the second sport as part of his scholarship agreement. </p>

<p>As for the NCAA-a coach can not initiate contact until after his junior year season has ended. He can answer emails your son sends as of Sept. 1st of his junior year so you can contact potential coaches. You can visit coaches ON CAMPUS any time (with the exception of a couple minor blackout times). He will also need to register with the NCAA clearinghouse and send ACT/SAT scores to them when he takes those tests. Being an Ivy candidate, it’s not going to be an issue, but it still has to be done.</p>

<p>I would make sure your son knows that Ivy schools do NOT give athletic scholarships. It may or may not matter but if what is important to him is to get that athletic scholarship, might not be the route to take. Also, many DIII school seem to “find” money for good athletes that are good students. Ivy’s, not so much.</p>

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<p>I would offer some additional information to what mncollegemom has shared. The official NCAA Recruiting Calendar can be found at this site (<a href=“http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/AMA/recruiting_calendars/2010/Overviewchart.pdf[/url]”>http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/AMA/recruiting_calendars/2010/Overviewchart.pdf&lt;/a&gt;)
Phone calls from coaches to prospects are allowed on June 15 of the summer after their sophomore year. Coaches were on the phone that day. Our house received 8 calls and an Ivy offer. The coach had seen my son play during his high school season and had visited the high school gym in prior Spring looking at older players. The point is that this begins early.</p>

<p>Secondly, it is correct that the Ivies don’t give athletic scholarships. However, if athletics helps you gain admission, you then are eligible for Ivy level need based financial aid. What this means is that for several of the schools, if your family’s Adjusted Gross Income is $80K or below, you go for free. If it is under $200K, your family’s contribution will be approx 10% of the AGI.</p>

<p>This is most true of HYP. Even if you are engaged with another Ivy, if you can demonstrate HYP interest and recruiting, the other schools with match their packages.</p>

<p>There are many ways to get a great education. D3s, fully scholarshipped D1s or D2s, or the Ivies. They are a different ball of wax and there is a lot of misinformation out there about there policies, recruiting process, and financial aid policies.</p>

<p>I hope this is helpful.</p>

9

<p>Those sophomore year calls are ONLY for certain sports…men’s basketball and men’s and woman’s hockey…it’s different for other sports and VERY confusing.</p>

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<p>Actually, my son attended Indiana University Basketball camp as an in-coming high school freshmen and was told he was now a recruit and he will be evaluated at the camp as prospect and each level or classification of school has it’s own rules for contact etc.</p>

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<p>Each level does not have it’s “own classification”. DIII schools have separate recruiting regulations but for the most part DI and DII have similar requirements. For an ON CAMPUS camp, they can talk to your son all they want, but they can’t contact him off campus at all yet. This is why these coaches have camps, to get the young players interested in their school. The NCAA sets the rules for contact, not the schools.</p>

12

<p>Thanks all- great information here.</p>

<p>I think you’re getting at the issue:
The high school program is not great, so AAU is the best way for him to develop and be seen in the region/nationally.</p>

<p>It’s just that the AAU coach is DEMANDING single-commitment to basketball.</p>

<p>The kid is a sophomore- I got it wrong in the first post- this is a friend of a friend, not my child, obviously! Ivy coaches have ALREADY contacted the club coach about this kid. He’s a standout. He has no intention of being a two-sport athlete in college. He’s a basketball player first, but loves to play soccer and doesn’t want to give it up during high school.</p>

<p>The crux is this: yes, the AAU coach has some Ivy/other DI connections but is playing hard ball about owning the kid for the next two years. Should the kid succumb to this pressure, knowing this is his best and only way to make sure he gets to play in college?</p>

<p>I had no idea basketball contact started so early. Thanks so much for pointing this out bballdad. That will be a tremendous help.</p>

13

<p>I suppose the question is what happens if the kid insists that he wants to play soccer, too? Specifically, what can/will the AAU coach or not do? Is he going to bench him? Is he going to accept it? Is he going to bad mouth him with the college coaches? </p>

<p>Another tag may be to check with a bunch of the coaches he’s interested in and ask what they think about him continuing to play soccer. Some college coaches may actually prefer it. Some may not think that highly of his AAU coach to begin with. Some may advise him to just focus on basket ball.</p>

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<p>My son’s HS friend played school & AAU hoops and school baseball, throughout HS. He encountered a lot of scheduling conflicts, but nobody ever demanded that he choose one sport over the other? As a matter of fact, he was drafted out of HS to pitch for the SD Padres, but turned the offer down to play basketball and baseball on full scholarship for ND…where he is starting as a true freshman for hoops, and pitching once a week getting ready for baseball season. </p>

<p>I would think if your friend’s, friend’s kid is THAT talented, his AAU coach would be happy to grant him the latitude to choose between events, when his schedule gets boggy in both camps. Is there another AAU team in the area he could play for, instead?</p>

<p>Has this student athlete considered transferring to a Boarding school that is known for basketball recruiting? Northfield-Mt. Hermon School and Tilton School, here in the NE, are just two of the very well known prep schools that produce A LOT of Ivy basketball recruits…</p>

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<p>Check out the HS’s listed on these (and other Ivy/top tier schools) rosters:</p>

<p>[Men’s</a> Basketball - 2011-12 Roster: Harvard Athletics - GoCrimson.com](<a href=“http://www.gocrimson.com/sports/mbkb/2011-12/roster]Men’s”>http://www.gocrimson.com/sports/mbkb/2011-12/roster)</p>

<p>[2011-12</a> Yale Men’s Basketball Roster - Yale Bulldogs](<a href=“http://www.yalebulldogs.com/sports/m-baskbl/2011-12/roster]2011-12”>http://www.yalebulldogs.com/sports/m-baskbl/2011-12/roster)</p>

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<p>Thanks all,
Prep school isn’t in the budget.
Beenthere2, you’ve nailed the dilemma, and your solution is exactly what I’ve been leaning toward, especially in light of the soph contact window for basketball being in July. </p>

<p>I see a once-a-month coach-initiated call in allowed, but can someone confirm my guess that the student can call the coach and discuss this at any time in a general sense prior to July, and in a specific sense after July 1st? </p>

<p>This looks like AAU coach bullying and calling his bluff a little may be just the thing. Targeted college coaches will have the most valuable suggestions.</p>

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<p>I ran across this PM I sent along to a poster that had a question last year. Hope it helps. Prep school is a bit bite to take, but the financial aid can be exceptionally generous. Many of the schools that develop players for the Ivies want superior athletes as part of their meix because it boosts their own college admissions profile. My son met his prep school coach at an academic elite camp and it proved to be a wonderful thing for him.</p>

<hr>

<p>The biggest thing that impacted his recruitment by the Ivies was determining that this was the path he wanted to pursue, attending the right camps, and getting accepted (by both the school and the coach) at a prep school that tracked their players to the Ivies or high academic D3s.</p>

<p>Boarding school was a big step. It usually involves reclassing (for both athletic and academic development). Many kids do get into the Ivies that don’t do this. However, if you go to each Ivy basketball team’s website, look back through several roster years of each school and you will see certain schools emerge. NMH, The Peddie School, Phillips Exeter, etc. This is because that basketball program validates their skill and the school validates their ability to do Ivy level work and get admitted. These programs know how to get the Ivies to look at and admit their athletes. </p>

<p>An AAU program with connections to the Ivies can be very important. Other useful exposure venues include the All Academic Camp at Brandeis. Also, two or three Ivy Elite camps are useful. I’d recommend Penn, Harvard and Princeton. Brown lacked structure. Yale and Columbia are suppposed to be good, but I have no personal experience. Through my son’s attendance, I met and developed nodding relationships with the coaches at Emory, Colgate, Rochester, Williams, Haverford, etc. It’s a good circuit. Also, the Hoop Group’s Academic Elite week.</p>

<p>Bucknell and Colgate have camps that kids I know have attended and enjoyed. In addition to getting looked at by the school’s coaches, at Harvard, Princeton and Penn, they use D3 coaches from high academic D3s on their staff and others are in attendance. Each year, the Ivies take between 40 and 50 new recruits, yet a couple of hundred players attend their camps. Many of these players find their way to the NESCAC, the NEWMAC or the Centennial League schools. Because of their high admission standards, each Ivy starts the with over 1,000 potential recruits for each class. Over the course of 18 months, these get narrowed down to a handful.</p>

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<p>^exactly what I’m talking about, bbdad^ Thanks for lending some credibility to the notion. </p>

<p>I bet if this student athlete contacts a couple NEPSAC or ISL coaches about the possibility of transfer next year or the following year … they would be more than happy to watch his game films and provide all kinds of information about academics, housing and FA… which can be very generous - especially if they really want him. </p>

<p>Where this kid is just a sophomore… he might be a great candidate for tranfer and reclassification over the next couple years. Worth investigating?</p>

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<p>You haven’t said much about this students soccer chops, but in most cases, to play at the college level he will have to played some pretty high level club soccer by junior year, probably by sophomore year, and the teamate of son who tried to do both (soccer at club level, but not really competitive outside of school in basketball) really had a hard time of it. club soccer is year round with three practices a week. I’m guessing basketball is similar.I know some kids can pull it off, but for mine, it meant a lot more injuries. </p>

<p>FWIW, I’m pretty sure there is bigger money in college basketball scholarships then there is in college soccer.</p>

20

<p>WOW! Thanks so much, everyone. This is invaluable.</p>

<p>Shrink, no interest in college soccer. Not because of money, but just passion/skill/size/body type issues. </p>

<p>This will keep them busy researching and thinking, and with some direction at last.</p>

<p>So grateful for CC right now.</p>