[Socioeconomic] Class Matters. Why Won’t We Admit It?

[starbright]

<p>

I believe kids and parents need to be shown what is possible

</p>

<p>To me, that is a key ingredient. I come from an environment where almost no one went to university, and no one in my family- not either parents, grandparents, or siblings- graduated from HS. I don’t know exactly why I turned out so differently (I eventually got 4 degrees, including a PhD at what is the top in my field), and I’m a well published scholar now and earn in the top 1%. Sorry I dont mean to sound boastful, but rather to point out the contrast.</p>

<p>And I have thought about this issue most of my life (with my tiny sample of one) and i think it had to do mostly with it being presented to me as a possible. </p>

<p>For some reason, my father decided somehow that I should and could go to university so it was spoken of as a given (but for my siblings, who were boys, they were told ‘they could always work with their hands’ or ‘join the military’ and the idea of college was never, ever on the radar screen for them). And viola, i went to university, and they never finished highschool. </p>

<p>I had teachers who thought I had some potential. They noticed me, they gave me the sense I could be somebody. They told me about colleges and what you do there, and what would happen, and why I was good enough to go to college. Looking back I was a gifted student with so-so grades. I was never tested, there was no gifted program, but they gave me special assignments in which I excelled (even though my report cards were just okay). I suppose that was just luck of the draw of genes or whatnot that I had some abilities and wasn’t just average, but I benefitted because they noticed something in me. </p>

<p>I could live at home to go to a local state u, and I was able to pay for it myself. </p>

<p>This is a singular event but a critical one I believe. I went one weekend to a ‘open house’ at a local university. My teacher told me about it. It was a very far bus ride. I think I was in 7th grade or so. This was so alien to me…this whole campus thing, and I was in awe. I can still remember the rooms I walked in, and the amazing science exhibits. Dry ice, lazer beams, poetry, and graduate students. I had something concrete to picture and it made me excited. I think it literally changed my life.</p>

[ucbalumnus]

<p>

@ordinarylives

Why don’t we talk about it more? I don’t know. Talking money makes people uncomfortable, especially people who have a lot of it.

</p>

<p>Actually, a lot of people like to complain about how their taxes are too high, etc…</p>

[Proudpatriot]

<p>Someone posted the following:</p>

<p>“Designed for Middle, High, and College students, these programs seek to identify students with potential and give them the academic support they need to achieve it.”</p>

<p>If you follow the academic studies that have been done on this issue you realize that middle school is to late.</p>

[ucbalumnus]

<p>

@Yankee Belle

One mother wouldn’t let her son take dual enrollment classes, even though every other honors kid signed up. The state pays $300 each for 2 classes a semester, leaving about $300 for the parents to pay. They have the money. Her reasoning, “I had to suffer with those teachers, and you do to.”

</p>

<p>Seems the opposite mindset that some others have, which is “we are poor, but we’ll do what we can to get our kids into college so that they will have a better life”. But then this viewpoint is more common among immigrants, who self-select the most motivated people.</p>

<p>

@Yankee Belle

Here’s another. A kid wants to be a Nuclear Engineer. He has a 31 on the ACT. Before Thanksgiving, I found him a few schools that would give him at least full tuition. His parents saved enough for most of room and board. He just needs to meet the December 1st deadline. On December 3, he told me he’s enlisting in the Navy for the college money. His father doesn’t believe that colleges will give him any money. Now those college options are off the table.

</p>

<p>Hmmm, they didn’t even consider the Naval Academy (no specific nuclear engineering major, but nuclear engineering is included in other engineering majors) or ROTC? Did he at least sign up to work on a nuclear powered vessel for practical experience?</p>

[performersmom]

<p>BCE- totally agree.
H was one of those. He had a very “simple” life-style, and an ill mother. By chance, his closest friends tended to be children of doctors and lawyers and he fit right in, like a brother.
He was also naturally a great student and truly enjoyed the rewards of getting good grades and positive attention from his (very good at what they did) teachers and coaches.
Last, he grew up in a very small town in a rural and not terribly wealthy or productive area, but it was a college town, hung out at the college as a teen, was friends with many whose parents were profs, and the local public school really benefitted from having profs’ kids attend.
He was val and a super athlete, was recruited by all the Ivies and top LAC’s 35 years ago. He was on the maximum scholarship at college, graduated with loans, but loved it and is a very loyal alum to this day, with many close friends still from those years, and also close to his friends from his hometown.
His brothers have stayed in that town- one went to CC and is a social services manager, the other brother and wife have taught at the local school for 35 years, and their two oldest D’s are now teachers in the area.
Obviously, the message came through somehow that education is very important!
But he somehow was in contact with a different group, as well- it was a gradual process starting at a young age.</p>

[scout59]

<p>I don’t understand this thread title. Many if not most people who know something about education and higher education realize that socioeconomics matter more than almost any other demographic factor in these areas.</p>

<p>Educational achievenment and opportunity are more than just black/white, rich/poor situations. Starbright, I have another N=1 for your study population. My in-laws ares solidly middle-class, socioeconomically, with successful careers , vacation homes, and nice cars. Both barely graduated from high school. Among their 5 children, two went to college. </p>

<p>My husband (their middle child) never even considered college until he was a senior in high school, and his chemistry teacher told him that he had a knack for science and should consider college. There he was - Christmas of his senior year, had NEVER visited a college, NEVER took the SAT or ACT, NEVER agonized over APs or Honors classes. He applied to two schools and decided to attend the one located in the town where his grandmother lived. He lived with his grandmother while attending college; he graduated summa from that school and went on to get his PhD in chemistry.</p>

<p>I sometimes wonder what would have happened to him had not that one teacher talked with him about college. Post-high school education was just not on his parent’s radar - and I emphasize, his parents were/are very successful people by almost every measure.</p>

<p>I also think about him living with his grandmother when I hear kids complaining about college choices or roommate problems. It could be worse - you could be bunking with Grandma!</p>

[barrons]

<p>All the poor kids should be rounded up and shipped off to live in Lake Forest, Mercer Island and Rye shortly after birth. The hosts get a nice tax credit. ;-)</p>

[sylvan8798]

<p>

@BCEagle91

Some of us at CC came out of that kind of an environment. So we understand the challenges quite well.

Agreed, BC. There are things from my childhood that I can’t and have never been able to even talk about.</p>

[Yankee_Belle]

<p>I talked to him about the Naval Academy since last year. I just don’t understand. I thought it was the money but Dad believes it is better to go in the Navy first, then go to college. He plans on going on submarines. I have put the bug in his ear that some enlisted men get tapped for Annapolis. Maybe, he’ll look into that once he gets in.</p>

[ucbalumnus]

<p>If he does get a job operating the nuclear reactor in a submarine, that could be relevant to future study of nuclear engineering in college.</p>

<p>It is not the end of the world, though. Many people do military service right after high school and then go to college. An entire generation of men did so in the 1940s. Indeed, a bit more maturity may help in college (more disciplined study habits, etc.).</p>

[LasMa]

<p>The reason an entire generation of men was able to go to college in the 40s was because of the GI Bill. America at that time realized that educating a generation, expensive as it was, would lead to a productive, stable, prosperous population. For 30 or 40 years, we were well-rewarded for that investment. Now spending on public education is seen as an expense, a luxury in a time of budget-cutting. As this trend continues, college will increasingly become available only to the well-to-do, always with a few charity cases thrown in. The middle class is being squeezed out of higher education.</p>

[glido]

<p>“Some of us at CC came out of that kind of an environment. So we understand the challenges quite well.”</p>

<p>Exactly!</p>

[skrlvr]

<p>It’s a matter of work ethic. These kids have no habits of working (unless its illegal). A history professor I know has a great idea of having these kids work as assistant janitors in their schools as a way to teach these kids about working. I think that’s a great idea–I’m sure you’ll see test scores rise.</p>

[Marian]

<p>

It’s a matter of work ethic. These kids have no habits of working (unless its illegal).

</p>

<p>There are a wide variety of situations. What you say may apply to a few kids from families at lower socioeconomic levels, but certainly not to all or even most. </p>

<p>Some actually work too much; they spend so much time working at paid jobs to help support their families that they don’t have enough time for schoolwork in high school.</p>

[Consolation]

<p>

I have sat on my kids’ schools School Site Councils at each level (elementary, middle, and high schools, public schools) in a district that is generally wealthy but with ~10% population of kids who qualify for the free and reduced-price lunch program. The same problem always comes up, every year. The schools receive Title X funding to provide services for disadvantaged kids, based on the number of students who qualify for free and reduced-price lunches. But then the administration is forbidden from identifying who the socio-economically disadvantaged kids are because it would violate confidentiality! So the schools are legally prohibited from actually targeting the funds toward the kids who could most directly benefit from them. Instead, they end up directing the aid toward kids who have failing grades (regardless of the reason for the failure). That in itself a worthy goal, but perhaps not the best use of money that should be targeted toward alleviating poverty-related failure.

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<p>I think the school is doing it the right way. I live in a district that sounds similar to yours. My child qualified for free/reduced lunch for a number of years, but he certainly didn’t need Title X services, since he was one of the highest-achieving kids in his class. I have a friend who told me that their kids qualified on and off during that period, and her children were also among the high-achieving kids. I’m sure we were not alone.</p>

<p>In both of our cases, the families had well-educated parents from upper-middle class backgrounds who were experiencing significant economic reversals (not just a couple months of unemployment). There were other kids in the school who needed help, and got it. Since I volunteered a lot in the school, I observed that most of them were from the semi-rural, blue collar families in our town where no one had gone beyond high school, there were young divorced parents, and so forth. They may well have made more money than we did at times, but they didn’t have any cultural capital: a house full of books, parents who took them to museums and concerts (mostly free, of course), the library, and so on.</p>

[Youdon_tsay]

<p>I didn’t know Newt Gingrich was on cc! ;)</p>

[Consolation]

<p>^^If that remark is directed at me, I don’t understand your point.</p>

[Youdon_tsay]

<p>It’s not. …</p>

[Consolation]

<p>Okay 10 char</p>

[skrlvr]

<p>

I didn’t know Newt Gingrich was on cc!

</p>

<p>Why, that’s the very professor I was talking about-from West Georgia College! How did you know?? Not the typical college you hear much from, especially here on College Confidential. It’s refreshing to hear these alternative views, and not always from the elitist and liberal Ivy League schools. </p>

<p>There’s a new coal mine opening up in my county, and I have just the 9 year old who can fit into those small spaces and dig. Not teaching mine to be lazy…</p>