Some Questions from Germany

Colleges and Universities A-Z Massachusetts Institute of Technology
1

<p>Hello there,</p>

<p>I just wanted to look for some people with first-hand experience of how hard it is to get into MIT if you're not a US citizen. The numbers of admission speak a clear language ;)</p>

<p>But from what I've read, dedication seems to be the most important prerequisite for admission. I'm already 24 years old, which is not the optimal age to enter university, i know. My grades weren't the best either, i had a a median of B, but my focus was on math/science where I had better grades. Though at that time, I didn't care much for grades :P</p>

<p>Since my early teenage, I was literally absorbing science books. My aunt used to give me one as a gift when she visited us, which was about every two months. I then started to read and did not do anything else (except for the most basic human needs) until I was finished with the book. Having finished my "Abitur" (which is the general qualification for university entrance in germany) I did my "Zivildienst" (alternative service for conscientious objectors).</p>

<p>Shortly after that I enrolled at the RWTH Aachen, one of Germany's most renowned universities. But to my surprise I already knew all the stuff they taught me there, so I was just bored. I was extremely shocked by the lack of extracurricular activities. I would have never thought that studying just involved memorizing stuff the whole day, only to wash it down with alcohol the evening afterwards (which was about the only extracurricular activity that took place). I don't want to sound like a prick but I just need to emphasize my disappointment which ultimately resulted in me leaving the university. Since then I've been working on different things, mainly 3d visualization, virtualization, and so on, only to get to a point where i realized that i want something more.</p>

<p>Now how the hell does someone like me, having failed in so many places, come to the point of applying to the MIT?</p>

<p>Thing is, most of my life I did the things that other people wanted. My parents, my family, my girlfriend. I always did what those people expected me to do. After a lot of self-reflectance, I realized that this made me the angry unsuccessful person that I am today. If I'd see myself from a third-person view, waltzing around like I always do, I'd call myself a mindless idiot. And here I am, at an important, if not the most important crossing of my life. Do I want to go on like this, or do I want to become someone who makes a difference.</p>

<p>I know what I want. Now all I have to do is ... just do it ;) I just KNOW that becoming an MIT student is the right thing for me. I know it will be extremely hard in multiple ways (finances, studying abroad, fitting in, etc) but I just KNOW I need that challenge to become the person that I really want to be.</p>

<p>PS:So, how the hell am I gonna fit my story into 500 words :D
PS²: I'd appreciate some honest feedback.
PS³: I think the hardest part will be to get recommendations from my teachers, I don't even know if they're still employed at my former school :/</p>

2

<p>MIT admits relatively few international students, and since they're often among the top handful of students in their respective countries, international admission is highly selective. No students from Germany were admitted to the class of 2012: Summer</a> Send-Off Locations</p>

<p>Could you be the sole student admitted from your country in the class of 2013? You say you had a 3.0 GPA in high school, dropped out of university, don't think you'll be able to get letters of recommendation from teachers, and you're now 24 years old. "Never say never" is an old saying in the U.S. Still, I think it will be very difficult, simply because you will be applying in a pool with extremely high-achieving 17-year olds. </p>

<p>At the end of your post, you write, "So how the hell am I going to fit my story into 500 words." But I don't think cutting your story down is the answer, because as long as it is, it wouldn't convince me to admit you. Of course, I'm not an admissions officer, so who knows? Your story simply made me wonder why you think being at MIT would make you happy. Like it or not, that's my honest feedback.</p>

3

<p>Actually, i appreciate your honesty. After having thought about what i wrote here, i came to realize how stupid it must look from third-person view. But nothing anyone writes here is able to destroy my hope :P</p>

<p>Thing is, I will apply anyway. I'm not stupid so I know my chances are near zero. But they are not zero. And like I said, I just KNOW it's the right thing to do. It just fits perfectly with what I want from my life. There's no question about it, I need to get to MIT to get the most out of me. I won't even apply to any other university, like most people here do (I did that in Germany too, just like everyone else , but from my current perspective that just seems wrong).</p>

<p>Oh by the way, I noticed an error with the grade conversion I did. Long story short, my percentile is about 90%, about 95% if you ditch the uninteresting subjects like religion and so on. And like I said, grades didn't matter much to me, since I knew I could get into any german university I wanted (Universities in Germany HAVE to take you as long as they have enough space in their rooms)...</p>

<p>I know myself that I'm not a high-achieving 17-year old. BUT i can guarantee everyone that I'll become one of the highest-achieving 24-year olds if my admission is accepted. I know its the right motivation for me. Never in my life did I know something this certain.</p>

<p>About my university drop-out. I assume you're a Caltech Alumni? Well, wouldn't you have dropped out if there was virtually no campus life, no extracurricular activities except for excessive drinking, and most of all, LACK OF SPIRIT. I can't find better words. Nobody was really proud of being there, it was just like attending to school, and I did not have the feeling that anyone there really developed a personality, so i dropped out. I think these are quite good reasons, although admittedly difficult to understand from an external perspective.</p>

<p>Oh by the way, I know my first post sounds way to clumsy for an essay, but I was so extremely excited of finally taking the last step into this decision, that I couldn't sleep for 2 days :)</p>

<p>Regards</p>

4

<p>I wish you all the best. Motivation and drive count for a great deal in life and it sounds as if you have those in spades. Cal = The University of California at Berkeley. I post on this board as the parent of an MIT student, and although I'm usually looking for questions to answer from that perspective, sometimes I chip in my own two cents as a faculty member and someone who's served on graduate admissions committees. Good luck.</p>

5

<p>Like CalAlum said, I think it will be extremely difficult to get into MIT - even if you were a US applicant. It seems you've never worked hard (academically) in your life - MIT is an extremely difficult school, so I wonder why you think you ca handle it. That said, if MIT is truly your dream, it might be better to go to another school, beef up the grades and transcript, and try to transfer in. Being "bored" is no excuse to do poorly.</p>

<p>Tip, though - don't worry about essay length, they let you go over.</p>

6

<p>Thanks for the tip of attending to another university first. That might seem right from the MIT's perspective. But I don't know... I think that is quite opportunistic and somehow it wouldn't feel right. But I'll keep that in mind.</p>

<p>About hard academic work. Truth is, I never had to work hard, since I did so much learning besides school, which I didn't consider "work".</p>

<p>We have quite a different scholar system in Germany. After primary school you have to choose between 3 types of schools. Only 21% of pupils attend to the toughest one. And my percentile in that group was 90% (95% for Math/Science/etc) - so you can easily do the math on the percentile among all pupils. Should be around 98%.</p>

<p>In addition to that, we spend a whole year longer in school than US pupils. I did some SAT tests and honestly, that is extremely easy stuff (If the sample questions are equal in difficulty to the final test, that is). I don't think it will be hard for me to reach top scores, which would imply hard academic work for the MIT admission committee; even though from my perception I did NOT work hard :P</p>

<p>Oh and the boredom at university ... well. I don't want to go to an university to learn figures. Honestly, everything taught at my former university you can just as easily learn by getting the right books and research on the internet. I don't need a professor who is merely reading from his lecture notes. I can really do that myself. You don't excel at something if you don't have a goal to long for. It's the spirit that counts, and it's exactly the spirit that I need. Period!</p>

7

<p>hey, if you were enrolled in a degree program in another university, doesn't mit consider you a transfer, not a freshman?</p>

8

<p>On a sidenote, my former university is partnered with</p>

<p>Carnegie Mellon
UC Berkeley
Michigan State
and the University of Tennessee Space Institute</p>

<p>for exchange student programs.</p>

<p>@carmel: I honestly don't know, but I'll investigate further. Thanks!</p>

9

<p>Carmel is right - if you were in a degree program, then you can't enroll as a freshman. Therefore, it would be in your best interest to continue schooling somewhere else to better your chances in transfer admissions. Transferring in with your current record would be very, very unlikely - this year's transfer rate was 6%, and only 8 people were out of the country.</p>

<p>Your median grade of B - was that in university or before?</p>

10

<p>That was before university. I would say its the equivalent to high school but we have 3 distinct school types, the toughest of which only 21% of German pupils attend to.</p>

<p>According to Wikipedia, our grade "2" is more or less an A- to an A converted to an American school system, not a B. My median grade has a percentile of 98%, meaning 2% in whole Germany were equal or better.</p>

<p>Quote from Wikipedia:
"In converting German grades to the A-F scale, a 1 = A, ... 4 = D scale is often used (with 5 and 6 both converted to Fs) but this conversion is nearly never accurate, since, for example, a grade of 3 is usually more difficult to obtain in Germany than a B+ in the United States. In the U.S., students usually get an A if their score is greater than 90%. In Germany, students scoring more than 90% usually are in the 3 range."</p>

<p>I had mostly 1's, and some 2's, although in maths, physics, chemistry, English and geography I had the maximum points possible (almost always 100%)</p>

<p>Concerning the transfer/freshman issue, I have to check that again. I think its possible that its different for international applicants.</p>

<p>I already learned so much from your feedback here, I really appreciate all your constructive comments :)</p>

11

<p>If you are extremely serious about getting to MIT and it is not some crazy dream that you'll give up on in 2 days, you will listen to people who say your chances of getting into MIT now while not zero are infinitessimally small. What you need to do is forget about the direct approach, get admitted to another university here or go back to your university in Germany, do spectacularly well and then apply to MIT for grad school.</p>

<p>I hate to be such a ball-breaker, but if you were that good that MIT would make an exception for you because of your pure genius, you'd probably be there already.</p>

<p>Did you go to Goettingen?</p>

<p>See if you can go for some sort of exchange in the US, if German U's do that. You really need to heed the advice you're getting here. I hate to be so blunt, but you have no idea what you are up against.</p>

12

<p>Not only is the admission rate for internationals low, the rate for transfers is even lower. The combination is just simply not realistic, especially considering your age. </p>

<p>Just as BedHead suggested: get your undegrad degree first and apply as a grad student. Each department makes its own admission decisions and the number of internationals is much greater. You will also get the most of an MIT education as you already have a lot of the basic science education. That's the route I chose after getting an engineering degree in France.</p>

13

<p>I agree with Cellardweller and Bedhead. MIT accepts students based on their ability to handle hard courseloads whilst also pursuing passions in music/sport/community service etc. What you are bringing to the table is an initial lack of concern for grades and academics; and then a declining motivation to persevere in a tough environment. Your high school/university life is quite common. For instance, my first high school was a local school. Most of my friends were into drinking and drugs (at the age of 13), but despite being surrounded in that environment, I was still able to keep my head clear, and ultimately i applied and was admitted into one of australia's most selective schools. And many of the other students I know going to top colleges also have similar stories - whether it be battling peer pressure, family problems, illnesses, etc. </p>

<p>There was a 25 year old guy from Israel (i think) who got rejected for the second time this year. This is what he described his accomplishments as : "I am wondering what could go wrong with my application. Although I am relatively old to be a freshman in a US university, I decided to apply to MIT because it was my dream and I was inspired by the great things MIT does with its minds and technology to change and improve our world. Last year I was rejected, and this year I was waitlisted and rejected again. A person who applies twice, is working as an engineer for almost two years in one of the leading bio-med companies in Israel with no engineering degree, is a co-inventor of 10 patent applications, was an officer in the military for 4 years and received several awards and commendations, speaks 5 languages, was captain of his basketball team and so on"</p>

<p>Many internationals, due to the 8% restriction, are declined admission even though their applications are top-notch. I know it is hard to hear, but its going to be terribly hard for MIT to offer you a second chance especially when the question on their minds will be "why should we admit him intead of a 17 year old who has truly proven himself as MIT material?" Even as a transfer, your chances are slim, especially since you have no evidence to really show your committment, motivation and perseverence.</p>

<p>But, I strongly support bedhead's advice. I really want to see you at MIT, and frankly, your best shot is as a graduate student. Especially since there will be no problem with age, and international number restrictions.</p>

<p>I am so sorry that its not the most encouraging advice, but i take it that you wanted people's honest opinion. You should really have a look at the "what are my chances?" threads to see a small sample of the international applicants or transfer applicants you are up against.</p>

<p>Then again, if you are truly passionate, there is no harm in applying. I mean, if you have the free time for all the supplemental requirements like recommendations, school counsellor evaluations, etc and essays, then go for it. Because, if theres one thing thats definite, its that you wont be accepted if you don't apply.</p>

<p>Good Luck! Hit us with any more questions you have.</p>

14

<p>One of the things that MIT looks for in applications is also the match between you and the school. You haven't really addressed why you think that MIT is the place for you - if you're just looking for a challenging curriculum, you can find that at a number of other schools, some that are probably much easier to get into as an international student. What is it about MIT that you find so appealing?</p>