<p>Zaphod... First thing this morning I copied your excellent post, printed it and mailed it to my son who is a mid at USMMA. Although you posted your words of wisdom on the USNA forum, I believe the same guidance & valuable advice applies to all academies. (Now, I just hope he reads it!)</p>
<p>God bless you Z for taking the time to share your thoughts and experiences with all of us.</p>
<p>And yes, God most certainly is present in our lives....</p>
<p>
[quote]
I believe the same guidance & valuable advice applies to all academies.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Maybe, but West Point Woops are required to pay for it. ;)</p>
<p>
[quote]
God bless you Z for taking the time to share your thoughts and experiences with all of us.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Please, don't mention it. It's my pleasure. :o</p>
<p>I appreciated the ramblings, Zaphod. I'll be printing them and saving them to share with my candidate for the class of 2011.</p>
<p>Oh, man. Am I going to have to retype all that next year, too? :eek:</p>
<p>Zaphod: so where's the book already? Hope you are saving these all up for publication!</p>
<p>Awesome stuff, Zaphod. It's on the fridge already (only the best stuff makes it there).</p>
<p>This one may prove controversial....</p>
<p>Do not date another Mid.</p>
<p>Yes, I know it's almost impossible to avoid on SOME level, and that the circumstances certainly lend themselves to it. I am also well aware that there is nothing morally wrong with it. However, it is frought with perils you would best consider avoiding.</p>
<p>First off, USNA is a surprisingly tight place, even if you don't know everyone. Stories and rumors defy Einstein and move at warp speed. The last thing you want is to be the subject of a Salty Sam column (do they even have The Log magazine anymore?). Additionally, an ugly breakup will simply guarantee you're going to have to interact with the other person, perhaps closely, in the future. No way around it, really.</p>
<p>Having the GF/BF in the Hall is also a source of easy distraction which you don't need, and more than one Midshipman's career has been shattered because things got out of hand. Is it really worth it?</p>
<p>Remember what I said above, "Don't allow opportunities to pass you by for temporary comfort". Well, don't allow your entire future to be jeapordized by a temporary misjudgement or raging libidos.</p>
<p>If you DO decide to date within the Brigade, just bear in mind the risks. Frankly, you're not going to have time during Plebe Year anyway, and strictly speaking you won't be allowed to date (or anything closely resembling the term) off the yard, either. The distraction will most affect upperclassmen, who will be too busy schmozzing with their Significant Other to realize they are failing Strengths of Materials and blowing their chances to be a Marine Aviator.</p>
<p>Just think about it, OK? </p>
<p>You are there to get an education, to become a leader, and to lay the foundation for a career in the Naval Service. You're not there to get laid. Keep your hormones under control, your zipper up, and your hands to yourself. You have more important things to worry about. If you find someone on the outside, that's great, but never let them interfere with what you're doing on the inside.</p>
<p>That's the advice. I know reality is different because I lived it myself. It doesn't mean the advice is wrong.</p>
<p>You've been warned.</p>
<p>ETA: Oh, and the advice applies out in the real world, too. Never get your love where you get your living. There are other, more vulgar, versions, but you get my drift. Don't mix business with pleasure; it makes a lousy cocktail.</p>
<p>Re dating other mids, I agree with Z that it's tough, but I can't agree that no one should ever do it. From a woman's perspective, there aren't many alternatives. You (male and female) understand the "risks" (in terms of gossip etc.), and make your choice. Although I never seriously dated while I was there, my roommates did. Some are still married to the mids they dated; others aren't.</p>
<p>However, I can't emphasize enough that plebes should not date upperclassmen. I's a bad idea for so many reasons and thus it's against the rules for good reason. You'll think you're clever enough not to get caught. You'll get caught. And the penalty (restriction, etc.) is rough, especially for the senior mid (usually the male), who gets hit harder. Even if you don't get caught, your roommate(s) will know about the relationship and it puts them in a difficult situation. </p>
<p>I would also strongly discourage dating within your company. You'll understand why when you get there.</p>
<p>Realize that no dating relationship while at USNA is completely "normal," whether you're dating a mid or someone outside. You simply don't have the freedoms of most people to develop a normal relationship. You don't have as much free time, you don't have as much flexibility in choosing your career or place to live, you're under stress more than most. Dating a fellow mid simply adds another layer to that stress.</p>
<p>
[quote]
However, I can't emphasize enough that plebes should not date upperclassmen. </p>
<p>I would also strongly discourage dating within your company. You'll understand why when you get there.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Ooooooooooh, yeah. Big time!</p>
<p>i'd like to speak on the excellent point of not dating upperclass that has been mentioned. my roommate had been fried twice for dating a firstie, the second time this past week. separation is very very likely.
When you get to the academy, two things happen. First, you're taught that upperclass know more, have experienced more, and obviously deserve more respect than you. especially during plebe summer, they seem almost like gods. don't fall prey to think that they're infallible, they are quite capable of making mistakes. don't date them or hook up with them, as tempting as it may be. there are consequences and not only you will have to deal with them: you could get your roomates fried or at least interviewed and called as witnesses. so far during both semesters i've been a witness in a frat case during finals week. think of the other people who will be affected.
second, when you get to the academy everyone wants to give you advice about everything. LISTEN to it. it may go in one ear and out the other, but try and remember things that are said. about a week after the ac year starts everyone gets back into their own groove and the advice stops. you'll wish it hadn't.</p>
<p>dating fellow mids is a personal choice. don't be afraid to make it: lots of people do, and they are fine. it's difficult, but well worth the rewards. especially while youre at the academy, often no one can understand and support you like a mid. zaphod, to your comment about "is it really worth it"--i think the many many happy couples, both married and current mids, would say yes.</p>
<p>My comment applied to when things get out of hand, not when they don't. When things work out, they work out. Count your blessings. But when they DON'T, things can get VERY ugly. Your roomate is a perfect example. </p>
<p>Does she think dating that firstie was worth it, now that separation is "very very likely"? Somehow I doubt it. I'll bet the Firstie will REALLY regret it if HE gets separated ONE MONTH before graduation!</p>
<p>Worth THAT? HELL no! Not in my book!</p>
<p>And in the interests of full disclosure: Yes, I dated a classmate briefly and chased a few other girls in other classes (Even asked a Plebe out once when I was a 2/C. She had more sense than I did and said, wisely, no.). I'm not talking out of my tail end, here.</p>
<p>I know that it CAN work, but the risks are enormous. Sorry, but IMO it's just not worth it. That said, I wish the best to those who do decide to try it. Just don't expect a sympathetic ear when the train wreck happens.</p>
<p>I'm curious. What's going to happen to that block-headed Firstie?</p>
<p>Zaphod said,</p>
<p>"For NAPSters it will be an even stronger bond." </p>
<p>//I dont see that at all at the Naval Academy. For the most part the Napsters I know dont hang out together much at all. </p>
<p>"Dont make the mistake, as a Plebe or later as an upperclassman, of thinking that the Plebe System is a model of effective leadership. It isnt."</p>
<p>//So I guess that means after 3 years of the "leadership laboratory" as they call it on the outside, there still isn't any effective leadership? Maybe you were referring to the plebe summer program as a whole. </p>
<p>"IMO, its one of the worst, but it serves its purpose, which is to weed out the weak. "</p>
<p>//More realistically: the weak get to chit-surf the whole summer or watch TV and call their parents in Tango company. You see the kid who just broke down crying after his squad leader corrected him for something get to go to choir practice or Drum and Bugle Corps every night and skip drill while the rest of you are marching.</p>
<p>"If you cant handle someone yelling at you, how will you manage someone SHOOTING at you?"</p>
<p>//That's apparently the idea behind it, but kids dont handle getting yelled at very well these days. </p>
<p>"You WILL screw up. Period. It happens. "</p>
<p>//That's true, and you're right, it's not a big deal in the long run. Just dont be the guy who they pick on all summer. There are about 1-2 per company; for mine one of them was a girl, the other a guy. Both people were miserable the entire summer. They can break you if they want. </p>
<p>"The upperclassmen and your classmates will admire and respect someone who fails but didnt quit"</p>
<p>//true, unless he or she cries in front of everyone. Crying = instant loss of respect from upperclass and shipmates. Trust me, 1 out of 5 of you will cry and people will remember it whenever they think of you and plebe summer. </p>
<p>"Speaking of life, forget the one you had."</p>
<p>//During plebe summer, maybe. Afterwards, remember it. Hearing about my other friends' lives and talking to them online is like a mental sanctuary. do not forget your friends, or your life. You'll always think of your last few months of highschool as just a few weeks ago. </p>
<p>"You have earned the right to be there. You will be told otherwise, but the FACT is you worked your butt off to get this appointment. "</p>
<p>//True, but you'll see that many haven't earned being there as much as others. And the same people dont get in as much trouble for breaking the same rules. </p>
<p>"remembering what it felt like to be on the verge of finally becoming a Midshipman, and also remembering everything that you are about to go through, and the incredible shock I felt when I saw the difference, and the urge to scream out Wait! LISTEN! Its DIFFERENT than they told you! WAKE UP! This is not a GAME! becomes irresistible. "</p>
<p>//That's true. Before, you see the academy as a perfect place, beautifully challenging and purifying through its rigors. You learn it's more like a 4-year wade through a swamp of political correctness and bull crap. </p>
<p>"You CAN do it. Never, EVER, quit. Dont miss opportunities presented to you."</p>
<p>//Never quit, because you'll probably never get kicked out, no matter what you do. This year my company commander lied about her PRT scores (PRT passing is required to be commissioned). She was found guilty of violating not only the PRT taken this past february, but 2 more, dating back to youngster year. She still does not admit guilt, received minimal punishment, and will be serving as an Ensign in the US Navy in Japan in a few months. Do you feeRl comfortable having paid $300000 for a liar's education?</p>
<p>You don't sound all that motivated "Motivator". :)</p>
<p>woooow thats rediculous...I guess the good ones just have to work that much harder</p>
<p>It's Friday . . . </p>
<p>What's ridiculous . . . It's way too easy to spit out some bland, general criticism of a posting without saying anything.
Motivator has taken the time to think about what is being posted instead of vomiting the first bit of pablum he/she can think of.</p>
<p>I made this username a year ago when I WAS motivated.</p>
<p>As a plebe, or plebe-select, you buy into the whole image of the academy. White uniforms, crisp haircuts, the best of the best, etc. Parents never really grow out of that view of this place. Mids start to see it differently starting their first thanksgiving break. </p>
<p>Will I cherish these years, wish i could pay anything to relive them with my class mates, and go through the photoalbums with tearful and laughter-filled nostalgia? yeah, no doubt. </p>
<p>But right now, sometimes this place gets to you. It's not how hard classes are, it's not the fact that you cant leave campus very often-- it's just that the academy is a different place than any other, even the rest of the navy, and for those differences you sometimes hate it. sometimes you love it. </p>
<p>Any of you grads out there... there is no way you never said "IHTFP" at least once with complete conviction. </p>
<p>Aside from recent media coverage of a small percentage of soldiers messing around with prisoners at abu graib, the military is seen by Americans as one of the last bastions of ethical values, honor, and duty. I believe that's true. But I also know the reality; this is not a perfect military, nor is everyone in the military a wonderful person. The Naval Academy is not an exception.</p>
<p>Amen . . .brother.</p>
<p>Listen, I still think this is a pretty wonderful place. BUT, it can really wear on you. There can be WAY too much togetherness and sometimes you just want some peace and quiet. I get tired of the OORAH sometimes; heck, sometimes I get tired of being around so many people that seem to have no clue what the world is like and STILL want to spout off whatever it is that their parents have taught them as the gospel truth. That's okay, that's life I suppose.
The classes are hard and its really difficult to be in the shadows when there are less than 20 in a class. You are ON all of the time. THAT gets old. But its doable.</p>
<p>My parents have been great. There when I need them, not when I don't. I have no complaints. I can see where some parents can be a bit much; I have seen some parents "helicopter" in every chance they can. That's okay, I might do the same or want the same if my parents lived closer. Who knows?
Everybody is excited to come in the door and excited to walk out.</p>
<p>Do I need miscellaneous ramblings of a washed-up ex-mid who wishes he could-have/should-have stuck it out to motivate me? Nahhh. You won't either. This is a personal marathon [yeah, I know: "team, team, blah, blah, blah, team, team, team, blah, blah, blah.] The fact of the matter is, YOU have to wake up each day and motivate yourself to succeed in whatever the day's challenge is. </p>
<p>for what its worth . . . I think motivator's observations are correct. Hardley ridiculous.</p>
<p>Its the end of a long year . . . I am damn glad I did this. I cannot wait to go home. I can't wait for the summer cruises. Right now, I can wait for next year. BUT, I will be back and I WILL make it another year. 2/5? who knows right now, probably. . . maybe not.</p>
<p>Get ready for Plebe summer. If you try; if you work hard [probably harder than anything else you've ever done]; you shutup, listen, and do what you are told . . . you can do it.</p>
<p>Adios.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Any of you grads out there... there is no way you never said "IHTFP" at least once with complete conviction.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Just once? Try a few hundred times! </p>
<p>Per DAY!! :D</p>
<p>I know how you guys are feeling. I wish I could tell you it ends completely after Plebe Year, but it doesn't. It gets easier in some ways, and tougher in others. In short, it just changes. You'll say IHTFP with just as much conviction as a Firstie than as a Plebe.</p>
<p>Just hang in there. It's worth it in the long run.</p>
<p>And no, motivator's observations are nowhere near rediculous, nor are JamTex's. What you folks who have never been through it are hearing is two guys about to finish Plebe Year, and who are pretty well fed up with it. They may sound like they hate it (and they do, in many ways), but you don't see them quitting either, do you?</p>
<p>You will see it in anyone who has been through the place: admiration for what the place is and does, but a very, VERY cynical eye toward it as well. Mostly it hovers around the BS motivator mentioned, or the disillusionment suggested by JamTex. In my case, looking back across 15 years, it's the entire Plebe System, and what it does to Plebes and upperclassmen. It's a very complex group of feelings that is difficult to fully explain to those who haven't been through it themselves.</p>
<p>Oh, motivator? I hear your frustration on the liar. We had a few similar situations in my day. A guy caught red-handed stealing from the Midstore who wasn't tossed because he was of a certain ethnic group, while someone else got tossed for an honest but misinterpreted error. Sadly, the place is far from perfect. I wish it were otherwise (as I'm quite sure you do), but you and I and the others know it just isn't true, no matter what the catalogs say or how much we hope. We just do what we can with what we got, and hope for the best.</p>
<p>Hang in there guys. It's almost over. You made it!!</p>
<p>
[quote]
I dont see that at all at the Naval Academy. For the most part the Napsters I know dont hang out together much at all.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>How sad. My NAPS class was (for the most part) extremely tight, but that may have had much to do with the type of Indoc we had, and the horrible losses we took during those five years. We were also pretty close to the NAPSters before and after us. It was cool to see someone else wearing their banana suit top (I still have mine) because you knew you were part of a smaller, tighter group.</p>
<p>Times change. Sadly, the changes are not always for the better. </p>
<p>What a shame. :(</p>
<p>
[quote]
So I guess that means after 3 years of the "leadership laboratory" as they call it on the outside, there still isn't any effective leadership? Maybe you were referring to the plebe summer program as a whole.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No, I meant the whole Plebe System, including Plebe Year.</p>
<p>While I believe that Plebe Summer should be almost ferocious in its intensity (far tougher than it was, and tougher than I hear it is now), I take issue with a system that trains individuals to treat other individuals as beneath contempt. What you see in the hall simply does not exist in the fleet. There are stories of grads actually ordering their enlisted men to brace up. Don't know how much is exageration, but it wouldn't surprise me if a percentae is true.</p>
<p>I think one of the most brilliant decisions ever made by an administration was the assignment of senior enlisted personnel to the Academy to help the Mids learn about the Fleet. The SKCS of my first ship was one of the ones chosen. </p>
<p>Chopping, squaring corners, and all that crap is just that: crap. It teaches nothing and reinforces negatives in both the plebe and the upperclassmen that are not an asset after graduation. The trick is finding the balance between challenging someone to the limit and still being human and professional. I don't think the Plebe System does that (at least not the system I remember). </p>
<p>Of course, this is just my opinion. We could have one hell of a thread on this if enough Mids came through here to comment, let me tell you! THAT would be worth reading!</p>
<p>After reading these recent exchanges I have to wonder what motivates high school kids (like my son) to persue the Academy with such tremendous vigor. Do thy have a skewed or inaccurate sense of Academy life? Even the Smallwood book has not dampened his focus. Knowing him (and thinking he is typical Academy material) I can only conclude that he desires the opportunity to be challenged and to survive those testings in a way that most other high schoolers would never consider.</p>