some reservations about academics at UChicago...

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Chicago ✅
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<p>So for a while I was almost certain I wanted to go to UChicago; however, after visiting it last week, I've kind of been having reservations about the quality of academics at UChicago...</p>

<p>I get the feeling that a lot of people graduating from UChicago can't really do anything because all they studied is liberal arts. One of the econ professors mentioned some student who graduated and ended up living at her parents' place for several years because she didn't know what to do, only that she liked "shopping." Well, the story was a success story, but only by freak luck, really. The fact that someone can actually graduate from that place not knowing anything but "I like shopping" AND the fact that UChicago would actually use that person as an example for all their prospies kinda scares me... I don't see myself as this type of person but I'm just apprehensive about what type of education would possibly produce AND promote this...</p>

<p>Also I've been looking at grad/professional schools and their acceptance rates between the two schools. For example, the Harvard MD PhD program admitted a grand total of ONE person from UChicago over the past... 8 years or something, while UPenn had 5-6 or something. UPenn's medical school is 25% PA residents while UChicago's Pritzker school has like 2-4 from UChicago...</p>

<p>Now I'm not set on medical scientist stuff; I actually applied listing particle physics as my area of interest, so I'm just using this as an example. But I am quite certain about pursuing something in science, and it feels like UChicago may not be the best for this. UPenn is offering me a master's degree in 4 years and 2-3 summers of stipended research (basically meaning I can get a research position anywhere I want since I'm technically free), whereas UChicago is offering a bunch of liberal arts core classes. I understand their philosophy of educating the whole person and learning for the sake of learning, and in fact I agree with it, but I just feel like I'm stabbing myself in the foot after graduating from there because all this stuff just isn't as useful in the real world as a master's degree and some significant published research. And although I don't like (edit: hate) the sound of such title-based elitism and stuff, that's kinda how the real world runs, not some fantasy place where this elusive love of learning permeates everything and drives everything...</p>

<p>Also about the whole GPA deflation thing, the head of the biology department told me that since medical schools, possibly others, are partly ranked by the GPA of their class, no school is going to lower their rank just because "you're from UChicago zomg it's so hard theree!!" So that's kind of a problem... and the medical person also just blatantly lied to all of the prospies...</p>

<p>A part of me still wants to go to UChicago because the kids there are so much cooler and more intellectual/nerdy than UPenn kids; I've heard from various sources, including current friends attending UPenn, that a lot of the kids there sleep in class and party all the time in the quad. However, I just feel that if it comes down to one school having better social aspects while the other has better academic aspects, I'm paying (well, my parents) $50k something for the education, not the socialization (that shouldn't cost anything...) </p>

<p>Um, to sum it up just in case someone got lost in that rambling, basically I feel that, while UChicago would be a great intellectual learning and developing experience, the education there just isn't as practical and useful as what I could get from UPenn. And frankly the real world runs practically, not intellectually... </p>

<p>If someone could address this issue at UChicago, that would be much appreciated.</p>

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<p>Penn definitely has a stronger emphasis on pre-professionalism than UChicago, but in terms of grad school placement for a physics major, Chicago is an amazing place to be. In my opinion (which could be worthless), the undergraduate education offered at UChicago is top 5 in the world. (Oxford/Cambridge/Princeton/Stanford/Chicago) You seemed to be more concerned with the practical value of your education (pre-professionalism) than the actual education itself. (which is fine, just set your priorities straight) I don’t think you truly understand the rigor and prestige of UChicago’s undergraduate education and although you say you understand the philosophy of the school, you seem to snuff your nose at a “bunch of liberal arts classes.”</p>

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<p>feuxfollets, it is clear that your first hand experience at UChicago is leading you to believe that you will be better off at UPenn. From reading your post I feel that you will be miserable at UChicago. Go to UPenn. You will make one lucky person in the waiting list happy. Wish you all the best.</p>

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<p>Um first of all one lucky person in either waiting list will be happy… yea</p>

<p>And I’m not snuffing at liberal arts classes; sorry I should change that wording a bit. UChicago’s liberal arts classes do seem very interesting, and I did visit one of them while I was there so I don’t envision any problems with them.</p>

<p>I don’t think I’ll hate UChicago while I’m at it; I’m just kind of worried about what happens after.</p>

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<p>My former colleague’s son is sorely regretting his decision to attend Harvard: he think this was a big mistake. Already took a break of a semester and is wondering whether he should bite the bullet and transfer. Another former colleague’s daughter graduated from Cornell and not knowing what to do works part time as a calligrapher with parents paying for rent and food. A friend of mine knows a friend whose daughter graduated from Sanford and can’t support herself and can’t even get a $10/hr temp secretary job. A Yale student committed suicide by jumping off the Empire State building. Three students committed suicide in a span of a couple of months at Cornell. A student set fire on herself and died at MIT a few years back.</p>

<p>Does this all mean that Harvard, Cornell, Stanford, MIT, Cornell, and Yale give terrible education to their students or terrible places to be? Of course not! They are wonderful schools.</p>

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<p>I don’t know under what context the professor used this example: perhaps as a joke, twisted sense of humor, a rag to riches sort of an urban legend… I don’t know. But, you would be foolish to make a decision about a school based on such an anecdotal example. </p>

<p>You surely heard a story or two about a millionaire who dropped out of high school but you wouldn’t follow that example because you know this is just an anecdotal aberration, would you?</p>

<p>This kind of story is told precisely BECAUSE they are exceptions and as such has a shock value. You wouldn’t be talking about boring stories of U Chicago graduates who are PREDICTABLY doing well in graduate school, professional world, academia, etc, like Jon Corzine, the former head of Goldman Sachs, McKinsey the founder of McKinsey consulting, David Axelrod, who managed Obama’s ascension to the White House, or the last two winners of Pulitzer public service awards (gold medals) who happen to be U Chicago graduates in their 20’s, AND the numerous Rhodes Scholars, etc etc - the list goes on. </p>

<p>U Penn is a great school. You would get wonderful education and have a great career prospect. But you should be choosing it for the right reason - and the reason you gave (I think Chicago will provide terrible post graduate prospects for me) is NOT the right reason.</p>

<p>PS: My son is an aspiring investment banker, an econ major at U Chicago. He absolutely believes that his prospects coming out of Chicago will be great, terrific, and has no regrets what so ever. I am actually very happy that he is at U Chicago, and not at Wharton - and I am saying this as a Wharton MBA. I posted about his experience at U Chicago: the link is below.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-chicago/896268-food-thought-admitted-students-perspective-parent.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-chicago/896268-food-thought-admitted-students-perspective-parent.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Not trying to put words in feuxfollets’ mouth, but it seems like he (or she, I don’t know) is more concerned that Penn, with it’s more focused and well-defined possibilities, is more dependable than Chicago. I often hear/read that Chicago students have ample opportunities outside of the classroom, but feuxfollets has a *guarantee<a href=“as%20far%20as%20I%20can%20tell”>/i</a> of research opportunities at UPenn. So I think it’s not so much that UChicago –> bad grad opportunities as UPenn –> better grad opportunities.</p>

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<p>An interesting thread from couple of years ago:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-pennsylvania/486051-penn-vs-uchicago.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-pennsylvania/486051-penn-vs-uchicago.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>I feel like UChicago is more social sciences oriented than natural sciences… they sent me a letter earlier with 7 research/internship programs listed on there, ALL of them pertaining to social sciences or humanities without a single natural science one. I’m not saying that this means there aren’t any science research/internships available, as I’m sure there are; rather, it seems that UChicago is trying to attract social sciences people more than natural sciences.</p>

<p>@hyeonjlee: UChicago probably has one of the best econ departments along with a very strong math program, so your son would be set with that. However I have no interest going into business, and it is not very likely that I would study economics.</p>

<p>@heinochus: that’s probably what I was getting at. I think UPenn would give me a better preparation for grad/prof school in terms of research. Still I’m not exactly sure how much of an advantage this is compared to what UChicago might have to offer, so I’m not set yet.</p>

<p>Mhmm I’ll have to take a look at those links.</p>

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<p>Letters I got included one very special one from Physics department :).</p>

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<p>Feuxfollets you should go wherever you think you’d be happier. Personally for physics (which just happens to be what I would like to study) I would choose Chicago. Chicago’s physics program is, well, better than UPenn’s in my opinion (and the opinion of college rankings). Chicago also has Argonne lab and Fermilab (a lab all about particle physics), so you’ll have ample research opportunities.</p>

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<p>Another link FWIW: [Plain</a> Talk on Undergraduate Research](<a href=“http://physics.uchicago.edu/research/undergraduate/]Plain”>http://physics.uchicago.edu/research/undergraduate/)</p>

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<p>There are many, many research positions in the natural sciences here. Pretty much every single one of my friends majoring in the natural sciences has done research or has had an internship relevant to their research area. They’re not hard to find on campus at all, and even friends I know who don’t perform too well in the classroom can find them. What I have found, however, is that these positions are very rarely posted online. The few times I have searched for positions online through Chicago’s database, I find many social science positions and very few natural science positions. But this has nothing to do with availability.</p>

<p>More than likely, they sent that letter under the assumption that the recipients were aware that there are usually more positions in the natural sciences than in the social sciences/humanities, so they wanted to encourage those specializing in the latter fields to attend as well. Here, you can get research positions regardless of your major.</p>

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<p>S1 is graduating this year. Has a great offer for a graduate program in his area at an Ivy, and a very good job offer in his area (which he is going to take for a year, the grad program will wait a year for him). All I can say is the University of Chicago has been for good to him.</p>

<p>The natural sciences are outstanding a Chicago with many opportunities for undergrads.</p>

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<p>Part of the reason for the core, I believe, is so that you will ultimately become a better _____ (scientist in your case). Everyone should have a broad knowledge base and learn outside of their main area of concentration. They need to know how to write, how to really analyze a book, etc.</p>

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<p>As others have told you, it’s downright silly to worry about internship/research opportunities in natural sciences at Chicago. No one, but no one, lacks for opportunities there if they want them.</p>

<p>Not that Penn isn’t great in that regard, too. My kids have dozens of classmates at Penn, many of them in some sort of pre-med or pre-PhD track, and some of those kids have had dream experiences. As far as I know, Penn is a great place to study natural sciences.</p>

<p>You, not the institution, will be the determining factor in what you get out of college and where it takes you. Either institution will offer you more opportunity than you could possibly take advantage of yourself. But when it comes time to apply to graduate school, they will be accepting YOU, not your college. Go to the place where you think you will have the best chance of becoming the best YOU possible – not where you think your GPA will be .1 higher, or where you like the food better.</p>

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<p>feuxfollets: You can also get a master degree in physics or biochemistry at UChicago in four years by writing an accredited examination before your graduation. As for research opportunities, I found a research opportunity (doing actual research and not the washing-beaker technical work) in my first week here, and I will soon be published. That tells you about the ample number of research opportunities available at this institution. Also, there are way, way more than 2-3 UChicago undergrads at UChicago’s own medical school (per class). I will find out the exact number, but I know there are more than that.</p>