<p>UCSD, UCSB, and other UC on your list are fine schools. UCSD is also relatively small. It may be a good idea to stay with UC and use the extra money available to do enrichment activities, study abroad, etc.</p>
<p>My mother is a published writer and this is what she says: Don't go to Brandeis. Go to one of the UCs where you will not incurr debt. The main reason for writer's block is MONEY! Think ahead. Want to be creative? Don't box yourself in with debt before you even begin to spread your wings!!! </p>
<p>PS Read about Brandeis' BLUE RIBBON APPLICATIONS if you really want to be turned off by a school. In order to get the number of apps up they "invited" people to apply for free ... some even after the application date ... then rejected most. Slimey.</p>
<p>j17, just think of the freedom of choice that $50k will give to you four years from now. And just think of the lack that $50k debt will present.</p>
<p>Its a no brainer in my mind.</p>
<p>BTW, our son will also have $50k+ in the bank following graduation next year too. That has allowed him to consider a fabulous internship offer in Pasadena, Ca this summer even though he may not net much money as a result. He is anxious to begin his career so grad school is not a top priority so he will have much more freedom to choose job offers based on interest vs salary.</p>
<p>I believe UCI has a nationally known masters program in creative writing. Don't know what that translates into at the undergrad level but you might want to check out what they offer. UCSB ahs that creative studies option. I know you have to apply into it, but I think you can probably move into it once you are there. You might want to check that out too.</p>
<p>Go to one of the UCs--you'll find that very big schools have many, many smaller "communities" within them.</p>
<p>Save your money for grad school, and understand that if you want grad school a UC degree is generally very well respected.</p>
<p>I didn't get into UVM Honors. </p>
<p>Jane2, I was a Blue Ribbon Applicant. </p>
<p>I know the UCs are fine schools - I'm just not sure they're right for me. 20,000+ student is huge. I go to a high school with 110 students. I'm going to visit UCSB tomorrow, but I'm a little apprehensive about it. I know choosing a UC would be the "smart" route, but if money were no object, I'd want to go to Brandeis, I think. I'll check out that info about UCI, though.</p>
<p>It's a pretty tough decision...anyone more advice?</p>
<p>Always remember that the question is:</p>
<p>which is right for me: Brandeis or UC-Davis (say) plus $100,000*</p>
<p>$100,000+ is an enormous amount of freedom for your future. </p>
<hr>
<p>In taste in schools, I'm the opposite of you. I like big places and am uncomfortable in small. But for $100,000+, I could have learned to take advantage of a small, good place.</p>
<hr>
<ul>
<li>even more, actually, since you would be earning interest on the $50,000 in the bank and you wouldn't be paying interest on that $50,000 loan.</li>
</ul>
<p>I wouldn't have quite that much, but I definitely see the benefit of having money in the bank for grad school or for living expenses or whatever. It's just hard to consider passing up my number one school...I can't decide!!!</p>
<p>See if you can get a real handle on whether your parents can shoulder their part of the debt. Read a recent thread by Taxguy about affording a dream school v. inexpensive. He wants parents to consider the impacts of these loans on their retirements more fully before they are overly generous with their loan programs.</p>
<p>Perhaps your folks CAN afford their share, which was why they let you apply to those other liberal arts places including Brandeis, in the first place.</p>
<p>See if they can tell you they are okay with their part. Then, can SOMEONE else help this student understand what $20K means to him when spread out over, say, l0 years after graduating, to repay. I'm reading that those who do understand finances very well (NOT me) say they're okay with under $30K for kids, as long as their parents are okay with their part, in order to get a top-shelf undergraduate education. </p>
<p>Brandeis is a quality school that will position you for graduate school acceptances if you do well there. If you're in grad school, you delay repayment of your undergrad loan during those years. </p>
<p>My brother went to Brandeis, then worked a year, then to law school at a modest law school (not a famous place you'll have heard of, but it was affordable) and practices in the same state. Others go from Brandeis to more top law schools; he just didn't choose all that.
As a lawyer, he paid off all his loans, undergrad and grad, because the GRAD school was so reasonable. He has a happy, family-balanced life. In fact he's about to send his eldest to Brandeis this year, but wasn't eligible for finaid (wife works; also a Brandeis grad.)
So, while everyone talks about "inexpensive undergrad then expensive grad school for a great career..." that's not the only formula that works. You could, from Brandeis, go on to a masters in education (right there, even...new program) spend the rest of your life teaching English or history, and write... </p>
<p>To be fair, if you can manage your way across the country, you should take confidence that you "could" also manage your way around a big UC. So it's more what you want in an undergraduate education, the small classes and so on. </p>
<p>Can you figure out why, among the other LAC's, Brandeis chose YOU? THat's another angle to ponder. What do you suppose they saw in you as a fit, since they could have chosen many others. If you know why they picked you out of a crowd, well, that's kind of interesting to ponder. </p>
<p>Here's a sidenote, and I don't want to be presumptuous at all. Brandeis is 52% Jewish student population, yet works dilligently to bring in diverse ethnicities.
If Brandeis appealed to YOU because of the Jewish offering and you're Jewish, well, it IS a fabulous spread of Jewish choices unparalleled at a LAC, which will give you many choices within Judaism to explore and nurture your spirit.
If you're not Jewish, then there could be something else you'd add to the complexity of the campus and you'd feel very special, unique and welcome so could flourish. Either way you win.
If you chose to include Brandeis on your list b/c you're Jewish and just want to be sure to have some Jewish options around you, then you might find the Hillel activity at any of the big UC's rivals the range of choices offered at Brandeis, so you won't lose the Jewish connection at all.</p>
<p>I ended up asking my own kids (but earlier in their search), "where do you learn best, in a classroom with 20-30 people having a face-to-face discussion with a professor...or would you like to take notes from someone brilliant at the front of the room and then break out into discussion groups during the week<br>
to hash it over with a grad student teaching assistant."</p>
<p>Before everyone jumps in and flames me on that, I must add that the OP's
strong interest in English, creative writing and history might lead to a different answer than someone who studies in science, math or engineering. </p>
<p>For my eldest kids, the answer was always "up close is where I learn best" and that's how they decided to only apply small LAC in the first place. So they didn't end up havingn to compare a big uni with a small LAC. No wonder you have a dilemma. I know, I know...Brandeis is actually small university but for undergrads it feels and functions like an LAC, re: access to profs, small classes, no frats, etc </p>
<p>I'd recommend reassuring yourself that your folks can handle their debt without wrecking their retirement, then get a description of how much $20K/year student is PER YEAR after you graduate (don't think lump sums, it's staggering), and if the financials check out, then go to Brandeis b/c it's probably a superior academic environment to the other fine places you mention, but I don't know them (no west coast info) so please compare again for sheer quality between those LAC's. </p>
<p>In other words, if you and your family CAN afford it, for real, then choose Brandeis. If they and you can't afford it, you have other fine options and will
absolutely learn to maneuver a big university eventually. </p>
<p>But I have a feeling you want the closeness for 4 years within the study environment. Even tho it's hard to get across the country on planes and all, you'll have that mastered by freshman year. Whereas the largeness and less personal contact points with admin and faculty (which some welcome, with all the course choices) of a big university will NOT go away in 4 years. </p>
<p>I've found that for undergrads, the sum is greater than the parts and college is more than "lots of courses." In the end, you want to have learned something and become something different than when you began. It's more akin to a chemical change, not just a physical change. I'd say: go where you imagine that happening to you. Where will you be able to think, discuss, delve, grow, learn, make friends because your ability to think, read and write will consolidate accordingly.</p>
<p>I attended the welcome reception for UCSB with my kid and was, as a parent, very impressed with the presentation, which included a panel with the chancellor and several deans and some students. It is about half the size of the other UC's and is in a stunning location; it is known as a "party school," unlike UCSD, which seems to have to reputation of being alienating, or UCI, which has lots of commuter students. But it is not JUST a party school -- it has terrific faculty (who would not want to teach and live in Santa Barbara?) and its honors program, if you could participate, allows for close contact with professors (you take regular classes but "contract" with the professor for the honors part). Your visit should give you a lot of information about whether it is right for you. UCDavis and UCSD are more highly "ranked" among the UC's but that is essentially meaningless -- if you do well at any of the UC's and get to know professors who can support your applications, you will have a strong chance of getting into graduate school or professional school. The managing partner of my law firm -- a big corporate firm -- went there and then to Yale law school. (The son of a friend of mine chose UCSB over Cal and NYU and is happy there, in the honors program.) The UC's offer many opportunities for study abroad as well, at low cost (same as UC). On the other hand, Davis is probably stronger for English and creative writing, and a lot closer to the ski slopes.</p>
<p>$100k difference. Is this even a real question? (I would have said the same for Reed.)</p>
<p>Davis is a very fine school! (as is UCSD).</p>
<p>I understood it to mean $20K student, 80K parent.</p>
<p>20K in debt for the student might actually be worth it, if the parents can and want to do their 80K.</p>
<p>Mini, you have no idea what I'm seeing around me here in the suburbs. Some parents have lots of discretionary money but just don't want to spend it on school.</p>
<p>I've been attending weddings that cost parents $40K, listening to them yak about their world-wide vacations that must cost nearly $20K, and seeing them send their kids off to state colleges that cost $12K (tuition,room, board). The cars, the vacations, the weddings... </p>
<p>If the posters parents live in THAT realm, then darned straight the family CAN afford a differential of $100K for 4 years at Brandeis.</p>
<p>And a kid with a B.A. and a solid plan CAN repay $5K per year. That's peanuts.</p>
<p>Real help would be to spell out for this kid how it would look for him to repay
$5K per year, post B.A.</p>
<p>If it means the difference between living alone in an apartment vs. having roommates post-college, he might be able to imagine that and decide it's worth it.</p>
<p>My eldest graduated with $12K in total debt because he worked his buns off in college and summers (so down from the $20K). He has roommates and says the monthly bill for around $75 just registers as another utility bill and he handles it without a problem.</p>
<p>If folks have it, I can't imagine anything better that they might spend it on...IF they have money left over for other educational opportunities.</p>
<p>The equation is not Brandeis v. School X.</p>
<p>It is Brandeis v. School X in $100k in educational opportunities (discretionary). Now if you are not going to realize that $100k in educational opportunities, and the parents will pay for Brandeis (or wherever), that seems fine to me. </p>
<p>And I also have no problem with Stafford level loans for undergrads ($19-$20k). $20k is a lot different than $50k.</p>
<p>
[quote]
UCDavis and UCSD are more highly "ranked" among the UC's but that is essentially meaningless
[/quote]
I don’t agree with that at all. UCSB is tougher to get into than Davis and is very underrated academically.</p>
<p>-UCSB has 18,000 students, so it’s actually a midsized school. It’s on less than 1,000 acres of land, which is pretty large, but that also includes graduate buildings.
-UC Davis has about 25,000 undergraduates and the campus is enormous (over 5,000 acres!)
-UC San Diego has a little over 20,000 undergrads, but is split up into six different colleges which are like separate communities and really help make a medium sized campus feel a lot smaller.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>...and the campus is enormous (over 5,000 acres!)<<</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Yeah, but the vast majority of that consists of the surrounding farm fields that they own. All those huge vineyards and tomato fields are counted as part of the campus. The actual inner campus, where the buildings are located, is nice and compact.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Yeah, but the vast majority of that consists of the surrounding farm fields that they own. All those huge vineyards and tomato fields are counted as part of the campus. The actual inner campus, where the buildings are located, is nice and compact.
[/quote]
That accounts for part of the size, but it's not the sole reason. I've been to all three campuses and Davis is by far the largest. There's a reason why most student ride a bike to class.</p>
<p>Thanks for the very detailed post, paying3tuitions. The thing is that my parents are paying the exact same amount of money, no matter where I go. They have allocated $10,000 per year, and the rest of the money is coming from a fund from my grandparents. I'll still be short about $10,000 if I choose Brandeis. For the first year, I would be okay because I have some money saved, but for the other years, I'd need loans, and I'd be the one repaying them. My parents won't have any debt, basically, but I face debt that would likely prevent me from attending grad school for a while. That's the dilemma in my mind, since I do have some affordable options. I just like Brandeis more...seriously, what do people do in this situation? I know it's somewhat common, but it is so hard for me. I've considered becoming a lawyer (basically following your brother's route), but there's a good chance I won't, and it would probably take forever to pay off all that debt.</p>
<p>I applied to the UCs to satisfy my parents, and I regret that now. I just came back from visiting Santa Barbara, and it did not feel right. The campus was beautiful, of course, but the party scene seemed to dominate and the 830-seat lecture hall was a bit daunting...</p>
<p>Just for the other posts (which didn't show up initially, for some reason)...most of the money is coming from a fund from my grandparents. While my parents are easily capable of paying more than $10,000, they have chosen not to make that an option, and I've accepted it. They are just getting "so stressed out" about the idea of me taking out loans at all.
By the way, I'm a girl...haha.</p>
<p>
[quote]
seriously, what do people do in this situation?
[/quote]
They attend their in-state publics. </p>
<p>That doesn't mean that you have to make that decision, but that is what the vast majority of students are doing when they opt for a public over private college. </p>
<p>By the way, my son is at a public college that was not his initial choice, for rather complicated reasons, and he has just been presented with a wonderful internship opportunity that is as good or better as anything he could have gotten at any private college. You never know what opportunities may come your way - so you shouldn't assume that your future will be all rosy with your top choice college and dismal with if you opt for a less glamorous choice due to financial limitations. Either way have the ability to get an excellent education.</p>
<p>Have you visited UCSD yet? It has the opposite reputation to UCSB in that UCSB is perceived as the 'party' school and UCSD as the 'serious, nerdy' school. Of course, both of these descriptions are exaggerating the reality somewhat but they do have a different feel.</p>
<p>Regarding money - whether it's coming from you, your parents, or your grandparents the fact is that there's still more money spent by your family for one place versus another. You're fortunate to have the choice and will have to determine if the value you receive from a more expensive school is worth the additional expense of your family's money. If you have definite grad school aspirations you'll need to consider that expense in the equation as well.</p>
<p>There are people who feel the smaller LAC is worth the extra cost and there others who prefer the opportunities and available majors a larger research university brings as well as the value of them. It's really an individual choice only you and your pocketbook can make.</p>