<p>“Guys want to date Asians because there is a stereotype of Asian women being “submissive” and that appeals to men.
Its about sex and stereotypes.”</p>
<p>***, no. Did you ever once think that maybe there are white guys who find some asians to be incredibly good looking? And nobody said they are all submissive. I mean look here in the states. Theres plenty of independent, and fun asian girls</p>
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<p>I find this statement extremely ignorant and sad. Asian-Americans need to establish a stronger unity and identity so people won’t think things like that anymore. I suppose its hard however, when there are only ten million Asians in the United States, and some are fresh off the boat and some have grandparents who were born here. I really think there is a huge barrier between American-born Asians and immigrant Asians and it causes a lot of confusion for everyone to figure out “what” is “Asian” in America. Of course, constant, negative media portryals of Asians and Asian-Americans doesn’t help.</p>
<p>I can say without confusion, however, that I disagree with what yucca said. I try to view people an individuals, and not just as “Well, he’s white, so he ‘acts’ white,” and “She’s a black person, so she must ‘act’ ‘black’” and “He’s Asian, so if he doesn’t do well in math and doesn’t play the violin, he’s just trying to ‘act’ white, because you can’t truly be ‘Asian’ and not fit those stereotypes.” What a particularily stupid way to think yucca, that sort of viewpoint exacerbates the problem and encourages ignorance towards Asian-Americans.</p>
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Haha, I love it when people completely miss the point of my posts.</p>
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<p>If BIGTWIX missed the point of your post, do you care to restate the point to make it more clear? Because I agree with BIXTWIX that there ARE Asian female-white male relationships that are based on regular old mutual attraction and not any insidious racial stereotypes like submissiveness. Your post made it seem like the stereotype of submissiveness was the reason any male might be attracted to any Asian female.</p>
<p>While its true that there are many harmful and insulting stereotypes surrounding Asian females, I feel that the “He’s just likes her because he wants her to be his submissive little geisha girl” argument gets thrown around a bit too much and is unfair to the many genuine, healthy AF/WM relationships that ARE out there. Many times people who throw around this argument have something personal to be bitter about, and are not always making a correct observation, I’ve found.</p>
<p>insanebrain -
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<p>Sigh one of the oldest and lamest rationales for people who unfairly generalize a whole group (Im sure you dont care for the people who generalize/stereotype Asian women) and use it as justification for their preferences.</p>
<p>First of, in every race/ethnicity, males, on average, are taller than the females by about 5 inches. So, if you are the height of an average ABC female, the average ABC male is going to be 5 inches taller than you.</p>
<p>Second, even if you happen to be a girl who is taller than the average height for an American female (which is under 54) say around 58, that is still shorter than the average height of young males in parts of Asia such as South Korea and Northern China (the average height of young males in SK is about 58.5 which is about an inch less than the average height of an American male; the average height of a young male from Northern China is about the same, if not taller).</p>
<p>And generally, the height of American born and raised Asians tend to be taller than their Asian born and raised counterparts (which was also true for Americans of European descent until the past few decades where Europeans, particularly Northern Europeans, have surpassed Americans in height).</p>
<p>And btw, why do you think so many Asian girls in the US get double-eyelid surgery? (Generally, the reason is not the same for the women in Asia who get the procedure done).</p>
<p>3togo
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<p>Uhh, but wouldnt the same thing statistically apply to all other racial groups, much less Asian males? (Btw, the AF/AM coupling in your analysis should only be 4.7%, with the % of AF/BM and AF/HM a bit higher at 13% or slightly below).</p>
<p>We dont see 13% of WMs married to BFs. Or 13% of WFs married to HMs, etc.</p>
<p>And the US Census stats with regard to marriage among Asians in the US dont bear out your hypothesis.</p>
<p>Of married US born or raised AFs roughly 55% are married to AMs.</p>
<p>And since about 40% are married to WMs, 4% married to HMs and 1% married to BMs Im afraid any evidence of race-blind isnt exactly exhibited here.</p>
<p>Btw, there is no problem with an AF marrying a WM (or any other non-Asian male for that matter), but for a significant minority, WMs are deemed superior and AMs are deemed inferior (for any no. of reasons) which goes against being race-blind.</p>
<p>lollybo -
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<p>Uhh, its what we see Hollywood/the media perpetuating.</p>
<p>The 2 basic AM stereotypes (aside from the wizen-old Asian teacher-type and the martial artists) are:</p>
<p>1) the geeky, short and generally not attractive AM who is timid, not socially adept and has somewhat effeminate mannerisms (often a foreigner to boot or gay).</p>
<p>Can be seen in such films or TV shows as Sixteen Candles, the Revenge of the Nerds series of films, Alfie, Heroes, Half & Half (gay AM), Entourage (gay AM), ER (no AM doctor but an AM nurse played by Gedde Watanabe of Sixteen Candles fame), “Deuce Bigalow: European Gigolo”, Beauty & the Geek, etc.</p>
<p>2) (to a lesser extent) the cold, abusive and patriarchal AM.</p>
<p>Can be seen in films or TV shows such as The Joy Luck Club (the studio actually changed the race of the cold, skin-flint husband from a WM to an AM), Lost (the character of Jin initially was one dimensional as a controlling husband however, the actor, Daniel Dae Kim, worked with the writers to flesh out the character), any no. of films such as The Transporter (AF at odds w/uncaring Asian father who is, of course, saved by a WM hero), any no. of criminal/law TV shows such as Without A Trace, Law & Order, Law & Order: SVU, etc. which have had an episode or episodes which with such story lines.</p>
<p>I think youre a bit confused. What Im saying is that we primarily see stereotypical portrayals of AMs in the media and that the media rarely shows regular or non-stereotypical AMs (as they do with other minority males such as blacks and Hispanics). I personally know a good no. of AMs who were frat-boys and jocks in college, but we dont exactly see too many of those such images (ironically, the TV show which has done the best job in this regard was a reality TV show in the season where they had Yul Kown and Brad Virata both AMs who were frat-boys/ex-jocks).</p>
<p>Due to these negative stereotypical images many Asians dont want to be painted with the same broad cloth and thus want to disassociate themselves from such Asians (not to mention talk derisively of them).</p>
<p>Compounding these stereotypes is the fact that most Asian-American actresses who have achieved some success in Hollywood have never played a role where their romantic interest was an AM (contrast this w/ BF or HF actresses).</p>
<p>In order to see an AM portrayed as being tall, handsome, well-built and romantic one has to look at Asian media. I know of a no. of AFs who have stated that their impression (and bias against AMs) changed once they lived in Asia (for business) and started seeing different media images of AMs.</p>
<p>kettyserene -
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<p>Not any more disrespectful as you are.</p>
<p>Assuming you are an AF, Im sure you object to all the gross generalizations/stereotypes about Asian females. So then why do you think it is OK for you to do the same with regard to Asian males?</p>
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<p>Uhh, the average height for the American male is under 6 at 59.5.</p>
<p>I went to Japan for a month, especially Tokyo, and there weren’t black people anywhere, even in the shinjuku district–1% of the population are foreigners, mostly korean, and 1% of that are Americans.</p>
<p>black people don’t go to Japan…kinda like black people don’t go to Colorado. Remember what happened to Scotty Pippen? </p>
<p>Anyway, being a black person I realize that the majority of Asian girls are somewhat indifferent towards black people in general, (not that big of a deal because this is usually reciprocal). In regards to the Asian/White couple deal, this doesn’t surprise as the general concession still views whites as the most attractive race. (Heck, I like white girls I won’t lie). When it really comes down to it we all have preferences based on a lot of different criteria and the available variety of people makes it so that we can all find someone right for us. So let the Asian girls have their white guys, asian guys, black guys, hispanic guys (not likely) and be happy. It is not our duty to police the Asian to Asian or the Asian to White ratio and these things seem to balance out in the end anyway.</p>
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I was generalizing. Of course not all WM/FA relationships are based on that stereotype, but then pervasiveness of said dating pattern is definitely influenced by it.</p>
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<p>Next time you should write that in the first place. You know, instead of generalizing, and then complaining that people “miss” the point of your generalization.</p>
<p>Or you could not instigate snippy fits on anonymous forums.</p>
<p>Well, my uncle’s black, and he’s married to an asian woman! So you’re all wrong!</p>
<p>Some of the examples you people give are just…ugh.</p>
<p>Just because you know someone or something to be true (i.e. “sterotypical” asians/blacks/hispanics/insert race here) doesn’t mean it’s true everywhere.</p>
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<p>Trying to downplay the issue as just a “snippy fit” because you made a lame generalization is rather transparent. If you can’t handle being challenged for what you write even on an “anonymous forum”, maybe you just shouldn’t.</p>
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I find this such a stupid statement. It’s as if somehow you want to reinforce the stereotype. And if we happen to show some white characteristics, we are called banana.</p>
<p>k&s, you’re taking this thread way too seriously.</p>
<p>Personally, I don’t find a fault in naming stereotypes because they are after all, stereotypes. You have to wonder how stereotypes develop in the first place…they come from repeated observations of the same phenomenon. Stereotypes don’t have to follow the scientific method nor do they have to be politically correct. The original poster of this thread clearly did not intend for this thread to be a scientific or politically correct discussion.</p>
<p>As for the comment I made earlier about Asians acting white…they’re the stereotypical “twinkies”, those that completely abandon their Asian heritage and values and just adopt American ones. I think it’s really unfortunate for those second-generation Asians to just forget their mother culture and their language. When one sees someone with yellow skin, a common question for people to ask is “what are you Chinese, Japanese, Korean?” The other common question is “How do you say (such and such) in your language?” Isn’t it embarrassing to have the features of an Asian but respond with an “I don’t know”?</p>
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Yes this is true. Asian girls don’t actively seek relationships with black guys. If they did, most likely their parents will disapprove because, yes, even Asians are racist towards blacks in general.</p>
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<p>That’s the whole problem. There shouldn’t even be labels such as “white characteristics” or “acting black” or “acting Asian.” We should look at people as individuals, and most importantly “allow” people to simply be themselves. You can like rap music, be bad at math and science and have your favorite food be Italian and not be “less” of an Asian person. You can like anime, be bad at sports and like rock music and not be “less” of a black person, etc. </p>
<p>The only people who view other human beings’ personalities only within a racially stereotyped context are bigots and ignorant, with a very limited and dim view. And that includes Asians toward other Asians, blacks towards other blacks, whites towards other whites etc. </p>
<p>You can’t complain about racism but hold your the people in your own ethnicity to bigoted “standards” to determine their “value” as an Asian/black/Hispanic/white person.</p>
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<p>So from what you said, being a certain race Asian/black/Hispanic is only defined by physical features? Are you completely ignoring cultural backgrounds? Language barriers? Tradition?</p>
<p>IMO, if an Asian person prefers eating hotdogs everyday to rice, then yes he IS less Asian. Whether that is a good or bad thing is a different matter. Most Asians would see that as bad because it’s Asian tradition to eat rice and to prefer hotdogs would mean that person is abandoning his Asian traditions.</p>
<p>Labels such as “acting black” or “being white” exist simply because people of a certain culture see it as shameful for one to abandon one’s own heritage. The negative feelings generated is not towards gaining a new cultural insight but rather towards forgetting one’s roots. It works similarly like “poser”, someone who tries to be someone he is not.</p>
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<p>Do you think its unfortunate for second-generation Americans of Russian, German or Italian heritage to just forget their mother culture or language? Or because they are the same race as most other Americans, do you think its okay for them not to know their ancestors’ culture and language?</p>
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<p>Isn’t it embarassing how other people are always asking Asians where they’re “from” or what “language they speak” even if they’ve been born and raised in America their entire life, and their parents have been too? Isn’t that ignorant of the people who can’t find it in themselves to understand the concept of someone who happens to have Asian features but is as “American” as they are?</p>
<p>One of the problems Asian-Americans face is the “perpetual foreigner” stereotype, the idea that Asians can never be “American” enough, will always be “exotic”, always “outsiders” no matter how long they’ve been in America and adopted the culture, language, values. Its doesn’t help either that some other Asians will object if they adopt American culture to begin with. Which do they “choose”? How can they satisfy both groups? How can they be both? </p>
<p>As I said before, Asian Americans need to establish unity and a stronger identity. I believe it is possible to be both Asian and American without being a “twinkie.”</p>
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<p>I’m not ignoring it, I’m saying it shouldn’t be necessary if the individual doesn’t want it to be. There is value in things like culture and tradition, of course. But culture and tradition don’t have to be race-based. Culture and tradition don’t have to have racial constraints. Culture and tradition are not carried in the blood. A person of Chinese ethnic heritage can adopt elements of American culture without being a “twinkie.” </p>
<p>Besides, is playing piano really well, excelling in biology and being unathletic (Asian stereotypes) actually Asian heritage, culture and tradition? Can white people excel in biology? Can black people play piano really well and be unathletic? Are they being less white or black because they exemplify “Asian” traits? Why is an Asian person less Asian and a twinkie if they like rock music or basketball? </p>
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<p>Right. And people who excuse things as “that’s sad, but that’s just the way the world works” are actually part of the problem.</p>
<p>Who said anything about basketball or piano or biology? Those things are not part of a distinct feature of any culture.</p>
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What are you then? Are you completely unbiased?</p>
<p>Are you going to act differently than those people who just say “that’s how the world works”?
I have a question for you…if you’re driving through a low-end black neighborhood with every pair of eyes staring at you as you drove by, and you have your windows down. Would you roll your windows up, speed up, and get out of there?</p>
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How does unity and a stronger identity exist as a whole if everyone just decides to be an individual and define themselves however the hell they want? This is exactly why those people get labeled as “twinkies” or whatever because the rest of the group sees that those individuals as a threat to the “unity and stronger identity”.</p>
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<p>I was continuing my argument that a black person can like anime or an Asian person can be bad at math and science and not be “less” of a black person or an Asian person. I was continuing my argument that stereotypes associated with a particular race-- say, that Asians are good at piano and blacks are good at basketball-- can easily be debunked by there being Asians who aren’t good at piano and blacks who aren’t good at basketball, and Asians who are good at basketball and blacks who are good at piano. </p>
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<p>Oh please. It doesn’t matter if its a low-end Asian neighboorhood or a low-end white neighborhood or black neighborhood. If every pair of eyes is staring at you, something is wrong with the neighborhood. </p>
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<p>No. But I realize that, I realize its wrong, and I try to be otherwise.</p>
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<p>Yeah. I’m going to try. Does that make me an idealist? Sure. I don’t think that’s a bad thing. Change has to start somewhere, and it surely doesn’t start with people who continue the status quo simply because its the status quo.</p>
<p>@lollybo
White guys don’t have to act white because they are white. =.=
There’s nothing wrong with Asians acting white or being nerdy…it just seems there’s rarely a variety in Asian guys. They’re not as spontaneous, let’s just say. To me, the Asian guy population (in the US) is comparable to a hypothetical population of Caucasians made up of either skaters or anime/manga lovers. One or the other and sometimes both…no variety.</p>