<p>jmmom--I know lots of kids at Harvey Mudd and Pomona and they talk about them the same way other kids talk about their east coast LACs ("small" "intimate" "I really know the professors"), so while I haven't visited, the feel appears to be the same. Of course, the good weather in CA is very different from the dreary days of winter in New England and the mid-Atlantic states. I have visited Santa Clara U (I took a course there) and didn't think it anything like the east coast LACs, except maybe Amherst (same preppy feel--this is not a compliment, coming from me).</p>
<p>I was also wondering if anyone has taken a summer class at a school they were interested in? ALso, some organizations like Junior State base themselves on college campuses. Do any of these give kids a realistic idea about the feel of a school, since they occur during summer?</p>
<p>Burn this:</p>
<p>I see no reason not to visit some Ivy League schools on an Eastern swing (assuming, of course, that kiddo's stats make those schools at least plausible options). </p>
<p>IMO, the goal is concentrate on seeing as many different types of schools as possible, rather than focusing on a particular school at this stage in the process. A spring junior year trip should be a general survey to provide a working overview necessary to start zeroing in on specific schools. Harvard, for example, would give you a feel for a large East Coast urban campus (as would UPenn). Yale and Brown would be representative of mid-size universities in smaller East Coast cities. Princeton would give you an example of a moderate-sized East Coast old suburban university. Swarthmore and Haverford - small LACs in close-in ritzy old suburban neighborhoods of a large East Coast city. Williams and Dartmouth for rural New England mountains. And, so on and so forth.</p>
<p>I would plan the trip by location, as it would be pretty easy to see two colleges per day. For example, Harvard/Tufts, Brown/Yale, Amherst/Wesleyan. The four Phila schools (Princeton/UPenn/Swarthmore/Haverford could be done in two days. Realistically, what we found worked was to visit a school in the morning, drive, visit a school in the afternoon, then drive to spend the night near the next morning's school. The distances between schools in the Northeast are pretty manageable for the most part. For example, an itinerary of Havard, Brown, Yale, Amherst, Wesleyan, Princeton, and Phila schools would only have one school to school drive time of more than two hours -- the stretch from Connecticut down to Princeton, which might be four hours-ish.</p>
<p>The question mark would be whether you want to try to include some of the remote colleges (Dartmouth, Williams, Cornell) in the itinerary. Those are going to include some extra driving time or out-of-the-way side trips. Seeing one is doable. Seeing all three would add days to the trip. </p>
<p>Depending on the dates and schedule, it would be fantastic to visit two representative freshman classes -- ideally bookending the academic experiences at the range of schools. For example, sitting in an Econ 101 lecture at Harvard and an Intro Econ class at Swarthmore would give you both ends of the spectrum. Or any number of other combinations of courses and schools depending on interests and schedules. </p>
<p>The main result of a trip like this is to start narrowing the focus. For example, once my daughter had visited UPenn, she knew that a large urban university was not her cup of tea -- so that narrowed the search. Your son could have the opposite reaction, in which case, he'd wipe off the small LACs and more rural mid-size universities. I think a parent's best role in the early going to be and advocate for the pluses of each type of school. For example, I was the advocate for large state universities in our family, purely because I wanted daughter to give them a fair shot in her thinking. </p>
<p>BTW, I agree that the West Coast schools (Pomona, Stanford, etc.) really aren't substitutes for seeing the equivalent types of schools on the East Coast. The whole experience and setting is vastly different.</p>
<p>Burn, don't skip the Ivies completely. They are ALL different in from one another in "feel", attitude, and geography. In CA, I'd recommend visiting one small and one large college in some combination with urban vs. suburban vs. rural. THEN, go to the various guide books/websites/etc. and sort which of the East Coast schools "fit" what your son is looking for. Then plan your trip. I.e., if he likes small, rural, athletic and doesn't mind snow or cold, then head up to Dartmouth and definitely to Williams. If he likes hardcore urban, big city, busy, busy, see Columbia, Penn, and Harvard and surrounding LACs. If smaller town but not rural, larger universities satisfy, Yale and Princeton. Kids who fit at Columbia are unlikely to fit at Dartmouth. Put into this mix what his interests are likely to be...e.g., if he is burning to be an engineer, see Columbia.</p>
<p>I've seen kids apply to all 8 Ivy league schools and get rejected by all. This doesn't make sense. They couldn't possibly be happy at all of them.</p>
<p>I'm starting to feel like that character in Airplane! I picked a bad time to give up ...smoking, drinking, sniffing glue, snorting cocaine and whatever else he said! I'm going to reread all the posts and make myself a list.</p>
<p>Oh, BurnThis, CC is a full-service experience! We have Sinner's Alley over in the Parent Cafe for when the going gets rough. You can indulge in appropriate questionable habits over there ;).</p>
<p>BurnThis: Fellow Californian here, albeit Northern. Last year I had a senior D, who we were told was the greatest thing since sliced bread by all and sundry. We had the exact visit strategy as you, and figured Cal and UCSB at worst were our safeties. </p>
<p>Here is the risk with that strategy. Your fabulous kid will turn out to have preferences about schools that others have listed above - rural/urban, small/large, v. liberal to less liberal (Ivies, afterall:)), the way it smells, how damn cold is it (Ithaca is not Princeton). These preferences will mean that he will like some Ivies and not others. Dartmouth is not a safety for Columbia - kids who want to be at Columbia mostly really don't want to be at Dartmouth.</p>
<p>And kids who want to be at Dartmouth really may not want to be at UCLA.</p>
<p>So what everyone is telling you, without questioning at all the desireability of your son as a candidate for the absolutely most selective schools, the list of applications you build for him ought to be built sort of like this:</p>
<p>Son likes urban schools
Son likes large medium
Classics department must be great
Opportunities to play music must exist</p>
<p>Ivies meeting those criterias - Harvard, Yale, Penn, Columbia
Matches - (because for almost NO ONE can an Ivy be deemed a match due to sheer numbers) meeting those criterias - UChicago, Northwestern, etc.
Safeties - Find a place with these characteristics but less selective. And it might or might not be UCLA - although hey these days UCLA looks pretty damn good.</p>
<p>Our story wound up OK. D is at Princeton. However, the "looks great for Harvard" advice turned into deferred and waitlisted. And Cal, her safety, would not have come close to fitting to what she really wanted, which was a slightly smaller, more intimate school like Princeton, and one that was not in California. She chose Princeton over Stanford - that's a pretty good indication that Cal would not have been right for her. Maybe a place like Rice would have been the right safety except that I did not find CC in time.</p>
<p>And I have to point out, my D is a legacy at Princeton. These admissions are very difficult and not to be underestimated. Our GC also said he couldn't imagine she wouldn't get into Stanford, given my D's school record of admissions to Stanford, and there he was right.</p>
<p>It's just that the line between happy and picking up the pieces is so thin. The advice I have given here is what I wrote in the thread last year - What Would You Have Done Differently?</p>
<p>The deferral time was no fun. Had I done this differently we could have had a different experience.</p>
<p>EDIT: Realized for some reason I had not read all posts. Sorry. Duplicate info here. The only thing I can maybe add is the important of weather....And the thought process to start now around staying in CA vs. seeing the rest of the country. It's a really big thing for CA kids, because since we live in the best part of the country it may be now or never for them to travel:).</p>
<p>And definitely see the Ivies. They all have a very different feel. Also hang out a little bit on the individual boards here. It's funny, but the boards themselves reflect the college cultures I find.</p>
<p>Have your son visit Smith...he may then want to apply to Amherst. <cough!></cough!></p>
<p>* dreary days of winter in New England *</p>
<p>Unless, of course, you - like my son - absolutely adore winter sports, ski slopes you can get to in a very short drive, skating, even (yes!) winter hiking and camping! </p>
<p>Some of us don't think New England winters are "dreary" at all!</p>
<p>I have a friend whose daughter wants Classics and has applied ED to Yale ... also on her list are Princeton and Williams. Apparently the Williams Classics faculty is wonderful.</p>
<p>For a spring New England tour, I might fly into Boston and see the Boston schools, and then head north to Dartmouth, down the Conn River Valley on I91 stopping at Amherst (and a quick driveby of UMass since it's not out of the way), on to Trinity in Hartford, Wesleyan in Middletown, and Yale in New Haven. Never hurts to take a quick detour off 95 in Fairfield to drive by Fairfield U, then check out Columbia, onward to Princeton, and then west to Philly. </p>
<p>If I had sufficent time, I would go west from Amherst to Williams and then back east to 91. I would skip Brown ... unless there's a compelling reason to see <em>that</em> one. Ditto Cornell -- it's a really long way from anywhere. </p>
<p>The best advice I can give to someone coming in to New England is that the driving times/distances are very different than in other parts of the country. Our roads are not straight and flat. Our back roads (going over to Williams for example) are not places to make good time. It's a pretty drive ... but a slow drive.</p>