<p>Would appreciate any feedback on how important you think SSAT scores are. I know that is a broad question - GLADCHEMMS vs. others. But in general, if your child gets A's, has EC's, but struggles with the SSAT how badly do you think that hurts?</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>I think the scores are pretty important. This may be totally in my head, but I think the schools look at the SSAT as an intelligence test. BUT–don’t lose heart. If your child is a great student, great recommendations and accomplishments, etc., I think some schools will look past less than stellar scores. If there is any documentation for your child about history of test scores being out of sync with ability, achievements, and intelligence, I would bring that to the attention of a school.</p>
<p>Some schools provide information for comparison. Andover’s average percentile is 93. Concord states the range of their scores but gives no clue as to distribution: 41-99 percentile. Thacher gives a median of 84% with no info as to range. You can spend some time searching different schools’ sites to try to get a better idea of SSAT scores.</p>
<p>Make sure you understand the different ways of reporting scores–average/mean, median, range, and how little you really know if the school only reports one way.</p>
<p>Your question “struggles with the SSAT how badly do you think that hurts?” also doesn’t give enough information. Some people think 75% is bad. But if you mean 30%, that definitely presents a disadvantage at most schools discussed on cc. But there are less competitive BS that might not have a problem with 30%. Depends hugely on what you are looking for and what schools you are looking at.</p>
<p>Most experienced parents on this site think a student’s score should not be too far off the published stats for a given school. Keep in mind that, for instance, the low end score given for Concord might be for a student with a special talent (such as recruited athlete or musician) who is also a member of an under-represented minority. Schools will make allowances to achieve a larger goal.</p>
<p>A special talent or distinction can bend the lower limits for SSATs. But IMHO kids are better off going to a school where they are in the top half on SSATs. Otherwise they doomed to be constantly behind the class. That’s counterproductive.</p>
<p>Also keep in mind that if you want financial aid, your SSATs need to be even higher to have a shot. Aim for schools where your child would be in the top 20%.</p>
<p>You need to think beyond just getting your child admitted. Once enrolled, he/she will be competing in the classroom w many kids who walked in cold and aced the SSAT. GMTson1 performed as such on the SSAT and is enrolled in an academically tough school. It is a constant, intense grind to maintain academic position. He is so sleep-deprived. </p>
<p>Grades in the BS school matter very much to compete in the college admissions arena. Be careful of what you wish for. It may be better “fit” to be a bigger fish in a smaller pond.</p>
<p>Thanks for all of the input. Good information.</p>
<p>At two of the most selective/rigorous schools frequently discussed here, we were told by AOs that “they like to see scores in the mid 80s and up”…that the target percentiles are an indication that “they are ready to do the work” the school will lay in front of them. Another thing we heard was “anything from the mid 80s and up, and the scores won’t be an issue” (which I interpreted as “above that and the the scores won’t be the reason for rejection”).</p>
<p>In application cycle after cycle, I see kids/parents with their eyes set on a very small group of the most FAMOUS/rigorous/selective schools and then lament that juniors scores were only XXth percentile…usually under the target percentile of these schools.</p>
<p>OTOH, my daughter was one wrong answer away from a 2400 on the SSAT and she still got rejected at Choate a few years ago. So obviously scores aren’t everything.</p>
<p>I pretty much agree that high 80%s without a big spread (verbal and math fairly similar) usually will keep you in the running. It is not necessary to get high 90’s, and from reviewing multiple years results’ threads, there are many kids with 99% who are not accepted. SSAT score is not the only thing they look at. Some kids with particularly sought after characteristics can have lower scores and still be accepted.</p>
<p>Above 93-95%, the distinctions don’t even matter much, a 96 is pretty much like a 99 at that end of the statistical distribution.</p>
<p>But if the average is 93%, that means half the kids did better than 93%. If your student is in the 80’s, I think it’s a very good point to think about why you would want them to be in the lower third of the class? DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE the quantity and quality of the work expected. No one glides through on either talent or work ethic alone. It takes a fair amount of both.</p>
<p>I would argue that the only difference in 80’s and 90’s is a matter of prep. Yes, there is a very rare occasional student that went to the test without prep and received a grade in the high 90’s but they are on the same level as an albino ostrich.
If we agree to disagree with my assessment of prep, then a kid with the 80’s still benefits greatly by being surrounded by the kids with scores in the 90’s. The student gets the benefit of seeing how better scoring kids study, their path of thinking, etc. The student also benefits by the type of teachers that are more apt to be teaching at a school with better scoring students. Its a win win situation for the kid scoring under the average. Don’t loose sight of the fact that someone performing in the 80’s is a very smart individual indeed.</p>
<p>Received a private reply which was very helpful so I wanted to say thank you to that person. But since I haven’t yet made 15 posts on CC the private reply function isn’t available to me. So I was able to read your note but couldn’t reply to it.</p>
<p>But THANK YOU! Your input was very much appreciated and did help me.</p>
<p>Not sure I really agree that the SSAT scores are a very useful predictor of how a kid will do academically in BS. Maybe on math. But one of the key features of BS is that most of the courses are taught (and tested) in a very difference way than the norm in many non-BSs. Especially for the humanities, students are expected to be able to engage in meaningful discussion about themes and ideas, and are graded on their ability to convey this, both orally and in writing. It’s not memorization or multiple-choice driven. Sure, there are scores below which I think one could safely assume that a kid might struggle. But I don’t think it’s at all obvious that a kid who scores in the 96th percentile overall will necessarily get better grades at BS than the kid who scores in the 86th (or even 76th) percentile.
And even on math, the correlation between SSAT score and a classroom grade may not be as strong as you’d assume. First of all, the math SSAT score rewards kids who are working above grade level – the test is designed to have questions that, for instance, an 8th grader wouldn’t necessarily be expected to know, and won’t be able to answer, because they have to have some harder questions in there to challenge the 10th graders taking it. And that’s fine, because the percentiles are done by grade level, so you’re only comparing 8th graders to each other. But if you have an 8th grader who’s advanced in math and taking a high school level course already, that kid is going to do better on the math portion than the other 8th graders. When “advanced 8th grader” goes to BS, he may go straight into precalculus, and “regular 8th grader” may go into 9th grade algebra. The fact that “advanced 8th grader” scored better than “regular 8th grader” on the SSAT tells us nothing about how “regular 8th grader” will do in his algebra class, because once they get to BS, they’re no longer being scored against each other. Also, the SSAT only tests how many questions you can get right in a certain amount of time, and I think many kids run out of time on the math portion (unless they’re real whizzes). But in many classes, homework and class participation are also a component of the grade, so even a kid who struggles to do math quickly may do better on their overall grade because only part of it comes from timed test scores. My daughter is definitely like that – doesn’t do very well on math tests just because math doesn’t come intuitively to her and she really has to think it through, but if you give her more time, she’ll usually get the right answer in the end.</p>
<p>Soxmom speaks the truth. As a Taft graduate who received a 6th% in math (no that is not a typo!) and as a mom of two quirky kids, both in rigorous honors classes and both with completely average test scores, I know from experience that kids with low scores can still perform well at a competitive BS and may well outperform their higher scoring peers. So no worries, your child has lots of company and the AOs are very used to evaluating applications of kids who are great in the classroom and not so great at SSATs. </p>
<p>Because we knew my child’s scores were not great when we interviewed, we asked every school including some of the most competitive, if her scores would cause her to be weeded out and every single AO assured us that the scores were one of the least important elements of the application. You may have a little bit of an uphill climb with scores outside the average of a particular school (my dd had some scores slightly above her schools targets and some well below ie a big spread and she did not get in to every place she applied), but low scores are rarely a deal breaker. My child is happy at her not-so-hidden gem and doing very well in the classroom. Yes she may have to work a little harder than some of those 99th percentile kids to end up in the same place, but many schools will pick “the little engine that can” in the 80th percentile over the brilliant slacker with perfect scores, and they are wise enough to assess the difference. As Lawrenceville’s AO told us “We could easily fill the whole class with kids with perfect scores but that would be boring. We are looking for a wide variety of experiences.” Teachers like to teach kids who are eager to learn and curious about their world and sometimes the most interesting students to teach are NOT the best scorers or even the brightest.</p>
<p>FWIW, in post #6, I was merely recounting what AOs at two schools told me.</p>
<p>To my ears, their comments implied that they felt that ssat WAS used be a predictor of readiness for the academic rigor of their schools. This is not the same as saying a kid with score below that could not “cut it” at either school, nor that kids with scores beneath that mid-80 threshold would not be admitted.</p>
<p>SSAT performance is a good predictor of SAT performance. So don’t be overly impressed by a prep school boasting its high SAT scores-- the school pre-selected the high scorers.</p>
<p>To be honest, I’ve never been really impressed by any top boarding school’s average SAT scores. Check out the school profile of TJ for example and consider top boarding schools are hand picking their students from an international pool, you’d agree it’s not that impressive really. SAT is never taught in school of course. It is meant to be an aptitude test, so at least theoretically what kids a school takes in will make a difference in the school’s SAT stats in a few years’ time. So, I guess I’m just agreeing with you, GMT, in saying people really shouldn’t be overly impressed because it’s not that impressive.</p>
<p>@Benley, if the top prep schools filled their slots w only the highest SSAT scoring applicants, then they would probably also sport higher avg SAT scores.</p>
<p>To the OP, the child’s current school makes an enormous difference. If your child’s attending a school the prep schools know well, the admissions officers will know how to place the grades in context. If they accept students from your current school, they know from experience how a child with As generally performs in their classrooms. The grades from a pre-prep, with the recommendations from the school and current teachers, are probably more useful than the SSAT.</p>
<p>However, if they don’t know your child’s current school, the test scores will be more important. Private middle schools are usually at least a year ahead of the standard public school curriculum; some students will be more advanced.</p>
<p>After admission, you must consider a school’s overall academic load. Schools with high average SSAT scores tend to set the bar very high in the classroom. They may use college texts, and they expect students to keep up. Students do need to leave schools on occasion for academic reasons. </p>
<p>A school with an SSAT average in the 90s will have a significant number of students who tested at the highest levels without test prep.</p>
<p>If your child’s test scores are significantly below average for a school, take a good look at the school’s profile (sent to colleges, often available on the website, the school should be able to give it to you upon request.) Look at the entirety of the college placement. Tabor Academy’s the only school I’ve ever seen who breaks it up by quintile: [Tabor</a> Academy ~ College Matriculation 2008-2013](<a href=“http://www.taboracademy.org/podium/default.aspx?t=136119]Tabor”>http://www.taboracademy.org/podium/default.aspx?t=136119)</p>
<p>My daughter who is currently in eighth grade got a total SSA T score of 88 th percentile verbal 96 but her math was only 77. Will this keep her from getting into Andover Exeter etc. </p>
<p>No. If something keeps her from getting in, it will not be her test scores.</p>
<p>I was told by our placement office that SSAT scores should be in the mid-80s and up for HADES school. Also SevenDad mentions an AO told him something similar on post #5 in this thread. But not clear if this means an overall average of 85% and up or if each subtest needs to be in the mid-80s and up. </p>
<p>Schools look more at the overall percentile. If one score is lower than the others, that’s not necessarily a problem, unless it’s glaringly low. Our son is at a HADES school, and he was in the 92d percentile overall, but was in the low 70s for math. I worried that was an issue, especially since he would describe himself as a math kid (and his class grades bear that out) but I guess the school was able to look past an SSAT math score that was on the lower side.</p>