<p>I’m looking at the aerials on Google Maps and they’re building a pretty large building on the northwest corner of the campus. Any idea what that is? </p>
<p>^^ You are looking at an old aerial which shows the construction of the Sipprelle Field House a few years back. It is a LEED certified building that SevenDad has commented on above.</p>
<p>From a recent SAS Facebook post…a quote from a member of the Class of 2014:</p>
<p>“As I am about to leave St. Andrew’s, I find myself trying to articulate what this place means to me but I am left speechless and frustrated. Everything that pops out of my mouth doesn’t quite fit what I’ve experienced here. I start to say things like, ‘This place is so much more…’, or ‘It’s a second home,’ or ‘the culture and ethos here is incomparable to any other school.’ While all of these statements are true, what I want to say is much more personal. I’ve changed. More than I know. I feel so much more myself than I ever had my whole life. I can now understand why so many alums come back to work here or never stop visiting, why Reunions are so popular, and why the SAS community extends itself across not only the country, but the world. St. Andrew’s isn’t just a high school. It’s a way of life. I don’t know what I’d do without it.”</p>
<p>I saw that too! Love love love. </p>
<p>BUMPING TO ADD A POST FROM A SEPARATE THREAD:</p>
<p>wesray1:
For those students/parents considering St. Andrew’s School (DE), the following post may be helpful. My son graduated from SAS last year and did not have a good experience there. When he was accepted and trying to decide whether to attend, I called the parent of a student currently attending for his opinion of the school. He told me that St. Andrew’s was the “anti-Hotchkiss” and no words were truer spoken. If your child is someone that you feel would be happy attending a Deerfield or a Hotchkiss where there are a large number of socially well-adjusted, “mainstream” kids, do not send them to SAS. Tad Roach, the Headmaster, is fond of using the term “counter cultural” and his playbooks include the New York Times, the New Yorker and the New Republic (all of which share similar cultural sensibilities). As such, SAS is looking for “counter cultural” kids and they will truly thrive there. Quirky, intellectual, artistic, socially unsophisticated types will love SAS. On the other hand (from our experience), socially sophisticated, athletic,“mainstream” kids will be miserable there. The latter will have a limited group of likeminded friends and will be treated, for the most part, disdainfully by the faculty and the administration ( the administrators, however, will aggressively solicit and happily cash development checks from these students’ families) for their perceived or assumed “bourgeois” tendencies. As a result, my son and his small group of friends spent four mostly unhappy years there. We suggested that he come home or transfer but he decided to stick it out and did manage to survive and do well academically and athletically. He is now very happy at a larger more socially diverse, top tier university. On the plus side, I do believe that he received a first class education at SAS. Additionally, he did not spend his weekends “partying” like they do at many other boarding schools (I am told) as SAS is very strict and has zero tolerance for drugs, alcohol, tobacco, etc. In sum, be very careful as to the type of person your son/daughter is so that you avoid a potentially very significant cultural mismatch here.</p>
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<p>Thanks for the candid sharing of your son’s experience at SAS. I’m sorry that he didn’t have the best time, but at least you (and he?) feel he received a great education.</p>
<p>A few thoughts from my perspective (a parent of a Class of 2015 rising senior):
- It is precisely the “different” environment/culture you refer to that led our daughter/our family to choose SAS over St. Paul’s in the first place. It is what we felt made SAS unique among the many other great schools out there.</p>
<ul>
<li><p>What I find (most?) interesting and compelling about SAS is that it offers, as you note, a first class education and a healthy environment (with regard to drugs, alcohol, etc.) with all the trappings of a more “traditional” school…the dress code, the mandatory chapels, the grand stone buildings, etc. BUT that it is a bit different in its ethos (there goes that SAS-speak again!).</p></li>
<li><p>Compared to something like a Putney or perhaps even on of the Quaker schools, SAS is by no means on the bleeding edge of being “counter-cultural”. I happen to like the balance of the traditional and the progressive that it offers…but as you noted, it really all comes down to matching the student with the school…the notion of “fit” that is discussed (perhaps not often enough) on this forum.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>I haven’t checked CC in a while, and while I have nothing to do with SAS, wesray1’s comment, which I just read, is off-putting. He says “if your child is someone that you feel would be happy attending a Deerfield or a Hotchkiss where there are a large number of socially well-adjusted, “mainstream” kids, do not send them to SAS” as if SAS graduates are not socially well adjusted and mainstream! He heaps more on when he says “the headmaster’s playbooks include the New York Times, the New Yorker and the New Republic.” All I could think of was here’s a guy who is only comfortable sipping G&T’s at the Club in his lime green pants with little whales on them while talking about the evil tendencies of liberals to Winthrop, Muffy, Chauncey and Winky. SevenDad, your equanimity is inspiring.</p>
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<p>Would it possible to catch that “different” vibe in a brief few hours of a school visit? Maybe a girl could do that, as they have very finey honed pheromones when it comes to things like handbags, shoes, scarves, hairstyle etc. – all of which evince – scream – certain cultural nuances that boys would never be alert to.</p>
<p>wesray1:</p>
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<p>SevenDad:</p>
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<p>How interesting. Our D didn’t like the feel of Deerfield and Hotchkiss even less, wasn’t interested in applying to either, so didn’t. However, she loved both SAS and St. Paul’s – schools with very different feels and her two top picks. Both schools admitted her. She chose SAS after revisiting both. And St. Paul’s to her didn’t feel anything like Hotchkiss nor to me.</p>
<p>Each of these four schools are amazing institutions with quite distinct feels. I can appreciate and even share the view that Hotchkiss and SAS are in ways most opposite in feel, but this to me is as much how the personalities of student and school mix or clash. Neither one is right or wrong, worthy of high praise or scorn for that. </p>
<p>Yes, going to a poor personality fit is going to be a big drag, and I’m sorry for your family’s predicament, wesray1. People who will be choosing…you really want your kid to feel that they belong at that school, not just that the school is famous or wants the student.</p>
<p>@makennacompton: That’s a great question, and obviously one that applies to ALL schools, not just SAS. That said, I do feel that there is at least a kernel of truth to all “first impressions” — of schools, people, situations, etc.</p>
<p>For SAS, I got a sense of what makes it different perhaps before we ever stepped on campus: through reading Tad Roach’s talks/writings and listening to the talks of other chapel speakers (available on the SAS site). This vibe was reinforced on pretty much ever visit, before and after we officially joined the SAS community.</p>
<p>I think the vibe you get from your tour guide and AO (the “front line” if you will, for any school) can also greatly inform the impression you get of a school.</p>
<p>So my answer to your question is “Yes, I think so.” It’s not just in the dress (plenty of prepsters at SAS, btw.)…and actually, that may be the least informative cue when it comes to the concept of “different” as it applies to SAS. Look at the photos on the school site, and — at least to me — the kids look just like any other kids at a BS with a formal dress code.</p>
<p>Parlabane,
Your comments, while meant to be critical, actually are very instructive in supporting the mentality prevalent at SAS among the administration and the faculty. So I thank you.</p>
<p>“All I could think of was here’s a guy who is only comfortable sipping G&T’s at the Club in his lime green pants with little whales on them while talking about the evil tendencies of liberals to Winthrop, Muffy, Chauncey and Winky.”</p>
<p>As I wrote, anyone other than those that fall into the “counter cultural” elite at SAS (which by definition would not be considered “mainstream”) are assumed by the faculty and the administration to be bourgeois country clubbers sipping G&T’s, etc. and are treated with the disdain that Parlabane suggests they deserve. Any student or parent who is considering SAS needs to be aware of this kind of thinking and make sure that the fit is appropriate. Otherwise, he/she will be in for a very unhappy four years.</p>
<p>And Parlabane, despite your protests as to “having nothing to do with SAS”, I suspect otherwise. </p>
<p>I couldn’t agree more with Westray1 and had a very similar experience at SAS with my son as well. What saddens me is that SAS is turning into a school that fosters an extremely liberal community. While I believe in being inclusive and affording the opportunity for gay and lesbians to come out and feel comfortable, it has gotten to a point that it has made it rather uncomfortable for heterosexuals. The “activities that took place” this spring in the Shmolze single “on dorm” were incredibly disturbing and upsetting. St. Andrew’s wants to be that diverse, inclusive and non-judgmental school but I think things have gone too far afield. You have to understand St. Andrew"s is so small that anything that happens becomes front and center. If your child views a “rager” as a poetry reading then this is definitely the place for him/her. I am so glad that my son has graduated and has moved on to thrive at a larger mainstream college. </p>
<p>Bellemet- could you elaborate on what you mean by " the activities that took place…" Comment or is there another thread you can direct me to? We have twin girls seriously considering SAS for 10th grade. They’re quirky, smart, athletic and not your savvy BS student. </p>
<p>Bellemet, you have commented on two things, a Schmolze incident and a rage that I am unfamiliar with. Especially as your son has graduated, I would hope that you would see how providing more details here is better than leaving these things in the gossip column. Could your son not leave the room, not bear to hear about it, or what? It is not true that all things become “front and center” at St. Andrew’s, nor that all the kids have heard of these events. And truly, if you respect the school, you would not cast stones in such an off-hand and cursory way. </p>
<p>After all, most of the boarding schools named here do lean liberal. Most accept homosexuals among their faculty, provided of course that they observe the normal rules of expected behavior found in governing manuals. They all have tolerance, to different degrees, for dirty dancing and bad language among students. A “r-ager” is a large party with alcohol and sex. Are you suggesting that SAS sanctioned such a thing on the pretense of it being a poetry reading? Were there no faculty present? </p>
<p>While I’m at, wesray, what do you mean by “socially sophisticated” kids? Or “mainstream” kids? Those two do not seem to be the same to me, as mainstream means average, so I’m curious. </p>
<p>I hardly see how either of you could be negatively affected by explaining here the extent to which you see this school becoming too liberal for you. It’s rather what we all read CC for, to get somebody else’s take so we can put the more pieces together for ourselves.</p>
<p>It’s an interesting exercise to read some of the characterizations of SAS being made by the relative newcomers to the the forum (ostensibly parents of recent SAS graduates) outside of the context of the rest of their posts:</p>
<p>“I do believe that he received a first class education at SAS”</p>
<p>“Additionally, he did not spend his weekends ‘partying’ like they do at many other boarding schools (I am told) as SAS is very strict and has zero tolerance for drugs, alcohol, tobacco, etc.”</p>
<p>“St. Andrew’s wants to be that diverse, inclusive and non-judgmental school”</p>
<p>“Quirky, intellectual, artistic”</p>
<p>For many parents/kids looking for a BS, these seem like EXTREMELY positive things, no?</p>
<p>Just to clarify for those who might not be familiar with SAS nomenclature: “Shmolze” is the name of a corridor/hallway in one of the boys dorms.</p>
<p>To be completely candid, the reason we are considering SAS for our girls is that the school’s values are closestr to our values. I’ve read/listened to almost all of the chapel talks and Tad’s that are available on the website. Structure, high expectations and acceptance/inclusivity are valued. I’m curious about others’ experiences and comment about why heterosexuals are feeling uncomfortable. Anyone willing to shed some light? :bz </p>
<p>@SevenDad: I’m curious as to what the Shmolze incident was. Could you please share us what you know / send me a private message? thank you.</p>
<p>I just asked my daughter what she knew, and she said she knows of nothing about whatever is being alleged to have happened. She did however, correct my pronunciation (according to her, it’s pronounced “Shmahl-zee”).</p>
<p>Wesray1…I really have nothing to do with SAS, other than reading about it on this site. Maybe you dashed off your original post without thinking, but on reflection I’m sure that you’ll agree it’s insulting. </p>
<p>I tried to edit my previous post to be worded less clumsily, but to no avail. </p>
<p>My daughter, a rising sophomore, stated this evening that she was aware of something a bit “d-ickish” (the auto draft automatically wants to change some words I’ve typed today) involving junior boys. She wasn’t sure whether this was in Founders on Schmolze or Baum corridor. In either case, she seems not to know, or to have wanted to know, much more in the way of details though she said one of the corridor parents quickly put a stop to some undesirable behavior, whatever it was.</p>
<p>She recounted that at a school assembly this spring, one of the openly gay students gave a statistically-oriented presentation on the experiences of homosexual students at public schools. He was received afterward with “a standing ovation from everyone”. </p>
<p>Her further views, while not articulated all that clearly or explained at length, included the notions that the school’s teaching is liberal, many of the students are conservative, and the most liberal and conservative students live harmoniously because they seldom “get in each other’s faces”. </p>
<p>That’s it from me tonight, for what it’s worth.</p>
<p>Right. Someone who has nothing to do with SAS just decides to wade through 30 pages of posts for the fun of it.</p>
<p>You are incorrect. I did not dash it off and I thought very carefully before posting it. Furthermore, I do not believe that it is insulting. It is based on my son’s four year experience and our observations during those four years. I am trying to help families that are considering SAS as a school for their children to make an informed decision. Based on our experience, it is my opinion that SAS is looking for a certain type of student and anyone thinking about going there should be aware of this. I am not suggesting that one type of student is better or more desirable than the other. Just that they are very different types. If you are not the type of student that SAS is seeking (the Headmaster’s term–“counter cultural”), you will probably not be happy there.</p>
<p>As you say, you have nothing to do with SAS and I do not believe that just “reading about it” qualifies you to render judgment on my opinion based on what my family lived for four years. </p>