<p>While NMF numbers may not reflect the quality of the instruction it certainly reflects certain aspects of the quality of the student. Thomas Jefferson HS and Blair Magnet High School in the D.C. area over the last decade have at the very least, a third of each graduating class, a bona fide NMSF. Speaks volumes for the quality of students and not necessarily the high school teaching or surrounding bricks and mortar.</p>
<p>PS: TJ High School Graduates: Using an adaptation of your brief metric: 49 (13%) students into HYPSM alone.</p>
<p>@abiriba: I donât think youâll get much argument from people here regarding TJ â itâs a great school, if you can get in and live in the sending geography.</p>
<p>SevenDad: Iâm not a TJ booster. I have no skin in the game. I simply used TJ as an example of a school with an extraordinarily consistent high number of NMSF every year that may reflect more the quality of student than school. The admission selection process suggests most of these kids could attain these lofty levels even from a home high school. The selection process pretty much guarantees these types of results. Many of these kids have already met the NMSF bar even before matriculating in the 9th grade. This is not meant to detract from the quality of TJ as a school. I have no experience with the school.</p>
<p>None? Not even one that made the PSAT cutoff? (whatâs the cutoff for mid-Atlantic BS by the way?) Thatâs a little strange. Regardless, @abiriba, you are comparing the best magnet school whose admission is purely based on tests with a small boarding school that is not considered most academically challenging. Nonethless, even if when you compare the best with the best in both categories, youâd see a difference in that aspect. However, one must realize that BS is not taking students based on tests. They form classes based on <em>diversified talents</em> and an emphasis of racial, georgraphic and other diversity factors as well. Number of NMF is not a best measuring stick for the student body quality in this context, IMO.</p>
<p>Roxbury Latin in Boston has been having NMQs at 1/3 of the class for the last three years if not more (15~18 out of 50 boys).</p>
<p>As hopefully a final mile marker on this detour about NMQs (and TJâŠthe thread is, after all, ostensibly about SAS), I share this from another thread elsewhere in this forum:</p>
<p>âMy kid says most kids at Exeter just shrug the National Merit thing off because the chance of making semi-finalist is so unlikely, given how much higher the scores are for NE boarding schools. 223 must be a nearly perfect PSAT, judging by the points my kid lost for wrong answers.â</p>
<p>FYI, according to one internet source I found, the cutoff for semi-finalists in Delaware is 215.</p>
<p>@BosParent: Is Roxbury Latin in Boston an example of a public magnet or a private independent school?</p>
<p>@SevenDad: The PSAT cutoff for MD (Blair HS Magnet â 30 to 40% NMSF) is closer to the cutoff for independent boarding schools (221 by my recollection). On Sptember 30, 2011, 33 seniors at PEA were named NMSF which is quite impressive for kids simply âshrugging the National Merit thing offâ. Iâm not sure the proportion of the class but I might hazard about 10 -12%. Perhaps students at other independent schools âdo a lot more shrugging offâ than Exonians despite much lower cutoffs. In either event, whether public school magnet programs or private independent programs like Groton, PEA, Andover or Roxbury Latin, 10 to 40 percent of graduating classes deemed NMSF is one element of quality of the studentry (public or private) and I congratulate them for their hard work and fine performance. I would share the same kudos for similar performances by our middle school children on the SSAT independent private school admission examinations.</p>
<p>Personally, Iâd take notes if a schoolâs graduating class doesnât even have one NMSF, so @abiriba, you have a point there. </p>
<p>Another point is that considering the huge number of students taking the test, the difference in cutoffâs even of a point or two can make a big difference.</p>
<p>@ArtsyGirl </p>
<p>I think most of us recognize this but we still congratulate our kids for outstanding performances in art, music, swimming, lacrosse, debate, theatre, AP exams and the SSAT. No one of these components or domains completely define our children. Thus, I will not withhold kudos to children with outstanding SSAT performance â even knowing the SSAT is not the sole defining variable of their worth as human beings.</p>
<p>@ArtsyGal:</p>
<p>Enlighten us on your âone size fits allâ model of how to judge a school?</p>
<p>How do you judge a private independent school or a college?</p>
<p>@ArtsyGal: You are painting to the mural.</p>
<p>Yesterday, 09:19 PM #101<br>
abiriba
New Member</p>
<p>Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 7 While NMF numbers may not reflect the quality of the instruction it certainly reflects certain aspects of the quality of the student. Thomas Jefferson HS and Blair Magnet High School in the D.C. area over the last decade have at the very least, a third of each graduating class, a bona fide NMSF. Speaks volumes for the quality of students and not necessarily the high school teaching or surrounding bricks and mortar.</p>
<p>Because being surrounded by 368 students who score 2399 in the SATs and who are NMFs means youâre definitely gonna be one of them too, yay!</p>
<p>@ArstyGal: Your response is convenient evasion and entirely predictable. I understand you may have difficulty answering a couple of simple questions in response to your own post that was riddled with false assumptions. I apologise for âhijackingâ your thread. Continue on.</p>
<p>Actually, I suppose I should take credit for âhijackingâ the thread because I first introduced the question of national merit semifinalists and finalists at St Andrewâs (or lack of). I suppose I am trying to understand if St Andrewâs doesnât attract those very-high achieving (on testsâIâm not casting aspersions on the many good, well-rounded students who arenât national merit) students in the first place OR if students who go to St Andrewâs and who mightâin another environmentâgo on to become national meritâdonât end up scoring quite that high because they are at this school, and the school doesnât emphasize taking tests, or emphasizes spending more time on sports, community service, etc., and therefore it is less likely to happen. I am asking the question because I genuinely donât know the answer. </p>
<p>Secondly, I followed the advice in a prior post and asked my sonâs advisor about the number of students dismissed/on probation this year so far and he told me that the information was confidential. I also asked if he could tell me the % of students who enter St Andrewâs as freshman and who graduate from St Andrewâs. he guessed 80%, which seems low to me, and offered to send me exact data, if it is available. If I get it, Iâll post it.</p>
<p>eileenbeth. I have definitely given this question much thought. Believe me I think everyday about whether my Dâs struggles have been worth it. I think some factors I would look for are the following: 1) religious or philosophical emphasis on kindness and inclusiveness: some schools care more than others, believe me; 2) is the school supportive or sink or swimâsometimes harder to tell but if you talk to kids and parents, discernible; 3) focus on test scores/results vs. on academic development and enrichment (subtle but makes a difference; and 4) how does the school make sure all is well with kids, i.e. upperclass buddies, groups that follow them for 4 yrs, etc. Every school gives kids advisors, but the role they play (and that of upperclassmen and other faculty watching over younger kids) is important. I suppose in the end some kids can handle and thrive in a competitive, test-focused, sink or swim environment, but believe me, not most 13, 14 or 15 year olds are best served that way.</p>
<p>No top schools that I know of are âfocusing onâ test scores. They wonât give students any class time (or out of class time for that matter) to prepare for standardized tests. Since PSAT is a one time shot that happens early in 11th grade (although you could have a test run in the 10th) and the results donât really âcountâ much in college admissions, I doubt many students would prepare specifically for the test even in their breaks. So it is more of a reflection of the studentsâ aptitude (is it called an aptitude test?) and testing abilities, than a function test of a schoolâs teaching. So I wouldnât stress over too much about the fact that thereâs no NMF from SAS, although it would make me take another look at the charateristics of the student body, especially if thereâs no special cutoff for DE BS (which I am not sure about) and the 215 DE cutoff is pretty low. That said, it happens with other good schools too. I took a look at Taftâs school profile, for the past two years only 1 or 2 kids out of 174/175 made the cut, but then Taft is a NE school so they have the highest cutoff in the country.</p>
<p>As for the number of students being expelled, I donât see why it should be confidential (itâs not like you want to know who for what reason), but hereâs my <em>goodwill</em> advice for you. The number could vary from year to year, and things do happen in any school. More importantly, what are you going to do with all the âfactsâ? Would you pull your son out of the school just because thereâs a higher than you feel comfortable number of students left the school? I think the key here is to find out if your son is hanging out with those potential trouble makers, and if those incidents affect his exprience at the school. If it is affecting him, then you need to figure out what actions you can take. </p>
<p>Iâve heard erlanger complaining about her Dâs school since the CC was born. Apparently this âswim or sinkâ school with large day student population is a perfect non-fit for her. Over time, sheâs been advised to initiate changes or just pull her out, but it seems nothing could change. Make no mistake - I am not blaming erlanger. Iâm just trying to point out that once you start at a school itâs not easy to call it quit, and the school wouldnât or couldnât change overnight just for your satisfaction. IMO, if itâs the imperfection you can live with, focus on the positive the school can offer to you child while working with the school on improving those imperfections. If what bothers is something you canât live with, leave as soon as possible. The longer you wait, the more unlikely/difficult you can call it quit.</p>
<p>Hey, I was just trying to respond to eileenbethâs question in #99 addressed to me. What you view as complaining is my expression of another point of view to balance against the many of the positive attributes of BS which are certainly well represented on the site. Yes, my D has been the beneficiary of some great attributes by attending BS: unrivaled academics, great facilities and opportunities, much personal growth, to name a few. I try to chime in from time to time to provide balance, which I do hopefully in a helpful and non-bashing way. In my opinion, and in my experience, the BS experience is not an easy one, and so along with considering the positives, parents and kids should be critical (i.e. ask lots of questions and do your diligence) and then honestly assess whether BS is right. This not a site just for the BS Believers; there should be room for honest and open debate.</p>
<p>All points well taken. Thanks! There is a difference between complaining and discussing shortcomings, problems, or things you would just like to be different. That information can definitely be helpful to others. Thatâs whatâs great about CC - you can hear all sides â not just lots of facts and information, but othersâ perspectives and experiences as well.</p>
<p>Ha Erlanger, you have hit the nail on the head. This often seems like a forum for BS boosters only. Since my daughter withdrew from SAS - one of at least 12 her year - I have thought a lot about telling her story, but it never seems appropriate on this site. Shame, though, letâs just go back to pretending its all great.</p>
<p>As my daughter put it, an entire dining hall table full of kids left before the year was out.</p>
<p>And my dd did become a NMF in our state after leaving SAS, but she wouldnât have made the cutoff for boarding schools. Delaware was 219, by the way, not 215, but I think you need a 223 at SAS.</p>