<p>What SanSerif said. And watch out for the wealthy, often out-of-state slackers at St. Joe. Historically, it seems that there have been two identifiable archetypes of kids there – residential full-freight payors, often from affluent suburbs in the NY tri-state area, at the lower end of the academic totem pole – and hardworking commuters, often with significant merit aid. This isn’t necessarily good or bad, it’s just a potential aspect of life there that I’d want to understand more about, if I were thinking if going for my lungs to provide St. Joe over WCUPA.</p>
<p>About the tiers – as state schools go, I would call William and Mary first-tier and Kutztown or Kean third-tier. WCUPA is probably in the middle somewhere.</p>
<p>For a field like criminal justice which is popular right now and in which getting a job likely requires some connections, I would try to get advice from policemen, corrections officers, parole officers, etc. in your town or wherever she’d like to work one day to see what programs they think are the best. We’re not in PA, but my friend who is looking into this for her son was surprised to learn which schools in our state were viewed most favorably for CJ. She wouldn’t have guessed. My sense is, since the jobs in the field are government jobs, that a state school might be better.</p>
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<p>Actually, there are also wealthy in and out-of-state slackers at WCU as well from what I saw firsthand two years ago while visiting a friend and what he saw as a faculty kid growing up there with a parent who taught at WCU for nearly 5 decades. </p>
<p>This was underscored by my seeing two instances of college-aged kids looking around 18-19 in Westchester driving around in different colored Lamborghinis within the span of a week. Last I checked, those high-end sports cars run around a half-million each.</p>
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<p>West Chester is very close to the Main Line, the area were the affluent of Philadelphia live. That’s who you saw driving Lamborghinis.</p>
<p>I grew up on the Main Line, but we were closer to St. Joe’s than to West Chester. Sadly, I didn’t have a Lamborghini. I think you’re going to find students at both ends of the spectrum at both schools.</p>
<p>West Chester is near the Main Line, cobrat. You don’t know if those kids were WCU students or not.</p>
<p>I don’t know the area well.
When you discuss Main Line…is that the train?
I am thinking City Line Ave runs through SJUs campus and have driven it to Villanova, yes?</p>
<p>The name “Main Line” comes from the commuter train that runs through it, but now it’s used to refer to the neighborhoods that are along Rt 30 (Gladwyne, Merion, Narberth, Ardmore, Villanova, Haverford, Wayne, Radnor, Berwyn, Paoli, etc.) Not everyone living there is rich, of course, but the average income/house price is way above average. West Chester is about 20 minutes from that area, and there are some nice neighborhoods around there as well, so it’s hard to say where the teens in the Lamborghini came from.</p>
<p>And yes, St. Joe’s is on City Line Avenue. You would take City Line to Rt. 30 to get to Villanova.</p>
<p>St. Joe’s, technically, is on the Main Line. What used to be the main line of the Pennsylvania Railroad, and is now called the Thorndale Line, has its tracks between Montgomery and Lancaster Avenues in Montgomery County, and stops at, among many other places, Merion, Narberth, Haverford, Bryn Mawr, Radnor, Villanova, and Wayne. Those places, out to Paoli, are called “Main Line suburbs”. The St. Joe’s campus straddles the city line in between Old Lancaster Ave. (which turns into Montgomery about half a mile into the 'burbs) and Lancaster Ave.; the “Main Line” tracks pass a few blocks west of its campus, and its trains serve St. Joe’s. </p>
<p>But the area around St. Joe’s is nothing like *The Philadelphia Story<a href=“which%20took%20place%20in%20a%20Bryn%20Mawr%20estate”>/i</a>. It’s very middle class and multi-ethnic.</p>
<p>West Chester is not that far from the extension of the “Main Line” train through the Great Valley area to Downingtown and Thorndale, but that area his never been called the Main Line, and in any event it’s still four or five miles from West Chester. West Chester is twice as far from the city as the farthest Main Line suburb. It’s in the middle of its own, very ritzy area, where lots of farmland has been converted to high-end office parks and high-end residential. Very horsey.</p>
<p>Both schools have a mix of students ranging from downright rich to downright poor. West Chester has far more affluent students than any other of the state universities in Pennsylvania (except maybe Penn State), but it’s still a low-cost public university near Philadelphia, and near some depressed rural communities. St. Joe’s has some wealthy kids, and fewer of the very poor ones than West Chester, but frankly Villanova is a much bigger draw for suburban Catholic preppies than St. Joe’s. The kid who looks like a prepster on the St. Joe’s campus is probably the ambitious child of blue-collar parents, and will not be driving a Lamborghini for a long time, if ever.</p>
<p>OP, I have to agree with Mini, in that the Stafford maximums are probably the max your DD should be taking out and anything more that has to be borrowed should be by you or your wife. Even owing the Staffords is going to make for a rough go for while, because finding a job that pays a living wage is not easy, even in the hot fields. Throw that loan payment in the picture, and it’s even more difficult I suggest you take out the PLUS with payments starting immediately so that you can gauge when the debt level really becomes intolerable and you truly cannot manage any more debt. But even the Staffords only will racking up interest since some of them will be unsubsidized and the rate is not insignificant, a whopping 6.8%, I believe, so your DD will be owing about $25K upon graduation. </p>
<p>The thing is with St Joe’s is that if things get too difficult, transferring to Westchester would still be a viable more option, whereas the other way around, is just about impossible in that fin aid for transfers is much less available as well as merit money. So it’s a one shot opportunity to give ST Joe’s a try. Its’ a matter of whether YOU can afford this.</p>
<p>Thanks again for all the advice,
Here is the down to the wire update. Despite some very good feedback on WCU, SO and I are going to let DD give SJU a shot. DD is making the decision, but she recognized we needed to be behind her financially to choose the more costly school. We did go back to SJU for her to see 2 classes but she did not get to see a Criminal Justice class or talk to an SJ student. She was disappointed but eventually realized the overall experience was what she was looking for. We missed out on the accepted students day at SJU, which would have been nice to put a good positive feeling towards the opportunity. We had gone to check out Rosemont, despite her not being very interested as it is very small.
After going over the numbers more carefully, it seems it’s about $8,500 more for SJU for freshmen year. I’m not sure how that will change for the next 3 years as the tuition for WCU could go up more than at SJU depending on the state budget issues? We are hoping that she will be able to get an RA position for 2nd and 3rd year, which could make SJU even less than WCU. I know it is a competitive opportunity, but hopefully she will do her best. Our plan is to take out student loans for the extra but as long as she does well, and gets back to acting likely a normal human, and not a HS senior, that we will help her out as best we can, so her debt is not too high when she gets out.<br>
For us, SO and I, the biggest difference was the cooperation of the support staff at SJU with letting us know what they could do to help her out next year. WCU may also have good support, but they were not willing to spend the time to talk to us about it. So it would seem likely they are not as well staffed to handle the even larger student body.
So the plan is to put in the deposit next week and hope that DD is willing and able to pull up her failing grades in History, Physics and Photography for the final marking period, so that she does not blow her scholarship.<br>
I will follow up if plans fall through and to update every one next year with the outcome.
Thanks again</p>