<p>My D has gotten accepted at all 8 schools she applied to and Im very proud that her original 1st choice, St Josephs Univ in PA has offered her 26.1 K in grants and 5.5K fed loans, leaving about 21K to cover total expense. The alternative is West Chester U of PA state school, for about 17K total cost or Rosemont a small LAC, for 17K our cost. She is think about Criminal Justice, which WCU semas to have a good program but I will be surprised if she does not change her mind once she sees all the other options for herself. To make things more complicated, she has bad senioritis and has really slacked off, especially this last marking period, to the point that she may get 2-3 Cs, which is unlike her. My wife is very frustrated with Ds ambition and behavior, and is strongly opposing spending the additional 9K (including the loan) for SJU. Her only brother is a freshmen in HS so we have a few years before they may overlap for 1 year. We need to make another visit to check out the Crim J program at SJU, now that it seems to be a contending financial option, at least in my mind.
Im looking for advice on two questions. Is SJU worth the extra money over WCU, or is the scholarship just bait to make you think you are getting a good deal? It seems like many applicants get 15-18K with acceptance. If the answer is, yes its worth it, how do I motivate My D to get back to her schooling to convince My W that she will be successful and that it is worth it?<br>
I was fortunate to go to the Ag School at Cornell (state subsidized) so I have an appreciation for both the quality and affordability of education, so I am pushing hard to give her the option to go to SJU given the grants they have offered. Our finances are tight but we have some money saved up and my wife is now working part time to help, she does not get many hours yet. Our D will likely have to make up the difference in loans, unless we dip into saving that were not intended for college.
Thank you CC</p>
<p>West Chester is a great school, and since you are already concerned about your daughter’s motivation, I would not pay the additional money for St. Joe’s. But that’s me.</p>
<p>Do you mind having to pay an extra 16K for the four years? That’s a lot of money, especially if you have younger kids going into college too.</p>
<p>I live in the Philly area, and West Chester’s rep has really risen over the years. I really couldn’t justify St. joe’s being worth that much more.</p>
<p>I visited WCU just this last weekend (WCU alumni, here), and the campus–the dorms–look great. WC is a wonderful, charming community and I know that the academics have really improved over the years. My niece graduated from SJU two years ago, and I’m not one to knock it. I know she had a very good college experience. But her grant was for Freshmen only. Her parents felt like they were baited a bit. If you are offered a grant at SJU, make sure it’s a four-year scholarship. Otherwise it’s a very pricy school.</p>
<p>Check out both schools and see which one fits your DD the best and which she likes more. West Chester is a great school and may have more to offer your DD. But having the student pick the school is a powerful incentive to keeping them motivated when things get rough, and they usually do. </p>
<p>If she does prefer St Joe’s, remember that it is a once in a lifetime deal for her. She doesn’t keep up her gpa, the money is gone. If she turns it down and goes to West Chester or elsewhere, she’s not going likely to get that kind of money as a transfer. It’s usually only as a freshman you get this sort of deal. So it might be well worth giving it a go if she want to go there. If things don’t work out, she can give it a go at West Chester as the in state price remains. Going the other way is not as easy or likely.</p>
<p>Yeah, I guess you could call it bait. They want the kids to come there, and some of those kids won’t be able to keep the terms of the scholarship and will lose it, but not badly enough that mom and dad will pull them, if they are doing all right, or if they are doing so badly transfer anywhere is not likely. But so it is with any merit award with stipulations. </p>
<p>If she can go to her first choice, the incentive is right there. If she loses her scholarship money, then that’s it. She can’t stay there. She has to come backas is</p>
<p>to state U which will take her with stipulations. Not a something you are putting over her head but what the school has. Or, you and your wife can explain that the extra is being spent to give her a choice but is not going to be continued if she turns out to be a bad investment. </p>
<p>Congratulations to your DD for her awards, and some good choices.</p>
<p>We helped our kids make decisions by only offering a certain amount and then they had to pay the difference. It would perhaps be unfair to tell your daughter that NOW, but something you might consider. All are good choices. I know kids that went to both St. Joe’s and several that went to or are attending WCU and love that!</p>
<p>Thanks for the comments.<br>
I have been thinking along the lines of Cptofthe house but other make good points as well. I have heard good things about WCU. My DD does have a some learning disabilities, mostly with reading, and It seems like she might get better support at SJU, but that’s hard to say for sure. I agree letting her make the decision is important and I think that’s where I am. Prior to her FA letter where there bumped up her grant another 11.1K, I was not going to make it an option, as I did not want her to take on that much debt.
As it stands, SJU is 9K more per year more after grants but FA includes 3.5K subsidized and 2K unsubsidized loans. The grants are for 4 years and I’m told, but have not seen it in writing that if she falls below the GPA cutoff (3.2 GPA assessed annually) they will drop her grant by 20% the first year and another 5% after that, so that 75% of the grant is basically not subject to her performance . She can earn back the grant if the next year she gets back over the 3.2 GPA. I don’t think we even qualify for federal loans for WCU.</p>
<p>I agree with almost everything everyone has said here, but would point out a couple of things:</p>
<p>In the end West Chester is a third-tier state college. It’s a really nice third-tier state college because it’s located in a ritzy ex-urb and has a pretty affluent student base, but in the end students get out of it what they put into it, and kids who get lost tend to stay lost. Kids with motivation problems sink beneath the waves at West Chester every day of the week. West Chester is also somewhat at the mercy of state politics around PASSHE university funding, which have been fairly toxic during the current administration.</p>
<p>St. Joe’s isn’t exactly tiny, but it’s a lot smaller than West Chester, and I believe the Jesuits who run it take seriously their mission to engage students intellectually and to help them succeed. That doesn’t mean success at St. Joe’s is guaranteed, but if there were a problem with my kid I would rather she were at St. Joe’s than West Chester. The graduation rate at St. Joe’s is 10 points higher than at West Chester.</p>
<p>Second, while West Chester is a lovely, chic little town, it doesn’t offer anything like the cultural/entertainment benefits of the city. Getting into Philadelphia from West Chester isn’t impossible, but it isn’t easy, either. St. Joe’s is not exactly in the middle of the city – the campus straddles the city line – but it has real public transportation access to stuff that is fun for students to do in the city AND in the near suburbs. Both colleges are somewhat suitcase schools, but personally I would rather be stuck at St. Joe’s on a weekend than at West Chester. Other people might choose differently.</p>
<p>Anyway, my bottom line is that I wouldn’t jump to a knee-jerk conclusion that there’s nothing at St. Joe’s that would be worth paying extra for.</p>
<p>What is the actual difference between WCU and St. Joe’s? Is it $4K (difference between $21K and $17K), or is it really over $9K when you factor in the loans at St. Joe’s? If it’s really only a $4K difference, I think St. Joe’s is worth it, but I would look VERY carefully at the requirements for retaining the merit scholarship, especially since your D is already slacking off. However, if you’re looking at closer to a $10K difference per year, and it’s going to be mostly loans that your D will have to pay off, do her a favor and steer her to WCU. FWIW, my father and brothers attended St. Joe’s, and I attended another Jesuit U in PA, so I am familiar with the school and with Jesuit education. Personally, I’d take Rosemont off the list, especially since it appears to have the same cost as WCU.</p>
<p>The real difference is 9K. She gets the Staford loan at SJU but our EFC is over the 17K for WCU, so I don’t think we are eligible. </p>
<p>If she takes out a a private student loan from our credit union for the added cost, it will be about $350/mo for 20 years starting 6 mo after graduation to pay it off. I think we could pay the interest off each year while she is in school so the debt does not build and that would make the payment even less. It’s not great but I don’t think it is totally crazy either. I was expecting SJU to be at least 20-30K more, which I was going to completely strike it down. At 9-10K it seams it could be worth the potentially better overall experience. </p>
<p>We are looking at Rosemont this weekend because with her merit aid it is the same price as WCU. If she falls in love with it fine, but I think it is too small since I don’t think she really knows what she wants to do. That’s the other reason I’m leaning towards SJU is I think it might be a better place for her to find her way. If she realy new what she wanted ans WCU had it, I think it would be fine.</p>
<p>Thanks again for all your advice.</p>
<p>JHS makes some good points, except for one thing - WCU was once a “third-tier state college.” But it’s really changed recently – the average GPA for freshmen is a 3.5 – not “third-tier” at all. Of course, it’s better for some majors than others and I am not familiar with the reputation of its Criminal Justice program. </p>
<p>Funny thing that JHS mentions kids maybe getting “lost” at WCU and not getting the help they need. My brother and I both went to Penn State. I loved it – he hated it! Mainly because of the huge size, feeling like a number, etc. When his son went to West Chester (graduated 2 years ago with an Accounting degree) he loved how there were so many opportunities for his son to get help if he needed it. And this is a kid that had significant ADHD - so he did need some guidance and help. Apparently WCU gave it to him.</p>
<p>Your daughter can still take out the Stafford loans if she goes to WCU even if your EFC is greater than the Cost of Attendance there. The loans just won’t be subsidized so will start accruing interest the moment the funds are released at the rate of about 7%. She could take out $5500 freshman year. If there is any need component, where the EFC is a bit lower than the COA, that portion can become subsidized. The most that can be subsidized is $3500. $2K of it is always unsub that first year. You can also apply for PLUS (parent loans) to pay as much as the COA, and that application can be done in the privacy of your home over the internet. The interest rate is about 8% for them. So make sure you do some comparisons when you take out the loans. The positives about taking them out through Sallie Mae is that there is built in insurance so if the student dies, for instance, the loan is forgiven. The same if either party dies for the PLUS program. Sorry to be gruesome here, but a lot of the private loans do not have that insurance feature built in, and it has become an issue for those who have had tragedies occur.</p>
<p>So WCU’s cost might be even lower when you apply the same Stafford loans to the cost that are in the equation for SJU. The only difference is that $3500 of the Staffords are subsidized with no interest accruing while she is in school at SJU. </p>
<p>I don’t know anything about Rosemont but I’ve heard good things about both WCU and SJU, and liked the graduates from both schools that I know very much, and they have done well by their educations.</p>
<p>SJU is simply too heavy in loans. I think the absolute max for loans should be the amount the feds think is reasonable to be able to pay back, the amount of Stafford subsidized over four years - which is $23k - max. If you can take on more, that’s another story. And that would be for ANY school.</p>
<p>I am usually not a proponent of loans. If a parent is on board with them, knowing what the amounts are going to be and understanding that they may have to help out. that’s a whole other thing. The student is not going to be able to take out any more loans, unless the parent is turned down by PLUS( then she could get an additional$4K for freshman year) or if the parent cosigns. I suggested the parents do some numbers to find out what the costs will be. </p>
<p>Bear in mind that your have a DD with LD which could impact her finding a job and/or finding one that pays enough to self sufficient. My son who graduated from a top 25 university is approaching age 30 and is finding it very difficult to be self sufficient financially, and that finding a job that pays enough to do so is not easy. He is working two jobs now in order to save some money for a condo or house and for the future. His SO is back at school for her Master’s and is living on a shoestring budget now so that she can increase future earning capacity. She can’t make much more in her field without it But both of these young people have “good” jobs and are still struggling. It took them a while to find these jobs too. A saving grace was that neither had loans. We took out some loans for our son, and we are finally seeing them paid down as they were each 10 year loans and taken out for each year of school. It’s a long time to be serving a 14 year sentence in terms of being strapped by loans. We decided we could not do this for our other kids as it was so painful. </p>
<p>So do the numbers as to what you can pay, what you can pay off. $350 a month is a lot. It’s a car payment and that’s only for a few years. She’ll likely need a car when she gets out of school too. Believe me when I say that it was such a blessing for my kids not to have any loans hanging around their necks as they bought cars, got apartments, spent money. Still had a tough time as there are those who were in the same situation but with parental allowances and better jobs. Some will generally have it better than you, yes. But some are on the lamm right now from student loan payment that they simply cannot afford to pay. They don’t make enough money, and the loans have ballooned with late penalties and accrued interest to astronomical amounts.</p>
<p>For SJU, I recommend that you and your wife pay what is needed for her to go there outside of the loans in her package and if she can’t do well enough there to be worth that investment, or loses any of the scholarship, then to a local school she goes and picks up loans herself to pay. </p>
<p>I also want to say that you don’t want to be up the financial wall as far as budget goes. My college son is a kid responsible beyond his years, plans, budgets, and he had a spring term last year that went way over. Tooth went haywire, needed new glasses, couldn’t keep a job, had other things that came up that put him way over budget. It happens. He’s managed to get things back on course this year, but he was sure that the gods were throwing those thunder bolts at him last year’s March. it was one piece of expensive news after another. It happens. And I don’t have to tell you that it happens at the homefront too. We are hit this year with some expenses that are making me sigh deeply. </p>
<p>Mini, do you recall what the 10 year monthly payment amount is for a student who takes out 4 years of the Stafford unsub standard amounts and starts repaying them 6 months after grad? Was it you who did that calculation?</p>
<p>Interesting discussion here…</p>
<p>our k1 is at a school that gives grants and work study and a required “savings” from summer job. And the U’s EFC is more than the aid calculator ever gives us with our solid #s… we have been digging a hole for 2 years.</p>
<p>We just discussed with a fin planner this am how to proceed the last 2 years because
K2 (who likes St Joes and will likely apply this summer) is in the pipeline and several of the schools offer “loans” as part of the package. The loans are so confusing I’d rather stick hot needles in my eyes…</p>
<p>So I am subscribing here to learn more with one there and one on the way…</p>
<p>tx</p>
<p>“Mini, do you recall what the 10 year monthly payment amount is for a student who takes out 4 years of the Stafford unsub standard amounts and starts repaying them 6 months after grad?”</p>
<p>$23k at 6.5% over 10 years is $261 per month.</p>
<p>Just find a simple amortization calculator on the web.</p>
<p>One thing that hasn’t been discussed is graduating in 4 years.</p>
<p>I only know a very small sampling of WCU students in the last 7 years; all took more than 4 years to graduate. I know no one who took over 4 years to get thru SJU. Be assured, this is only a small group of students I know, but it is enough that it warrants OP to dig a bit deeper as to requirements and course offerings. 5 yrs at WC could = 4 yrs at SJU.
Another aspect to look at is room fees. After freshmen year, most at WCU move off campus. For a kid who cooks, this can be a significant cost savings.</p>
<p>I would also contact disability services at each school.</p>
<p>I am a firm believer that a motivated student will find opportunities at ever school. I also believe the average 18 year old is not motivated or confident enough to go and seek the opportunities.</p>
<p>Thank you all for the prior feedback. We are still working through the decision process, but May 1st, the deadline for SJU, is approaching fast. After doing more research and reading reviews, on paper, ie based on stats and comments, SJU does look better but how much so??? We are trying to weigh the added cost of SJU to the advantages/disadvantages vs WCU.
Her last visit to WCU was good and we were both impressed with the criminal justice program there. If I were convinced she was sure about the CJ major I think it could work out fine for her at WCU. However, I think it is quite likely she will find something else that interests her more, once she is off to school. SJU has always been at the top of her list, so we are trying to get back there to visit the CJ department and see a class, and a French class (her intended minor).
It seems that if we can manage to pay the extra for SJU it is worth it, but if DD has to take out 40K in loans, it is not. My SO says many people she knows have much bigger student loans and that it is not uncommon to have large debts from college. It’s hard to say what we can manage, but maybe will give it a shot, as I don’t want to regret not giving DD the option. I know it is ultimately her choice, but I think this is the hardest decision I’ve had to make in a long long time, as it will certainly have long lasting impact on DD’s future.
So if anyone wants to weigh in, I’m still thinking about which school would be better if she sticks with the Criminal Justice as well as which would be better if she admits to being undecided and wants to explore her options.
Thank you</p>
<p>How far away are you from retirement? I guess it depends on what your income is, but my husband and I would never consider taking out a loan for $40K to send a kid to college. Granted, we are both retired, but it can take a long time to pay back a loan. Also, as you get older, there are health care costs to consider.</p>
<p>It is your decision, and it’s always appreciated when a poster comes back and gives us an update.</p>