Stagedoor vs College-Based Summer Intensives

Hi everyone! :slight_smile:

As the school year is about to start for my D, we are already starting to plan for next summer. My D is going into her freshman year at a PA school (she’s been there since 7th grade), and this summer she went to a MT high school intensive at a university and had an absolutely incredible experience.

There aren’t a ton of college-based programs open to rising sophomores, so we are exploring the possibility of her attending a session at Stagedoor. She first begged me to attend when she was about nine years old, but I thought she was too young back then, and since the time I’ve felt she was old enough we’ve always applied too late and all sessions were already full.

This year I finally have my act together early enough and registered her, but I am getting cold feet about sending them that $1000 deposit check before we even know she’s in. For those of you who have a child who has attended both Stagedoor and a pre-college type program, what are your thoughts on their relative merits? We don’t know anyone in real life who’s actually attended Stagedoor, and frankly in our area there are few kids who attend summer programs at all – even rising seniors.

My D gets very bored over the summer, so we are strongly considering having her do both Stagedoor and a pre-college program, should she be fortunate enough to be accepted to one (or she might attend two pre-college programs). She is also considering auditioning for the 6-week Interlochen program, but is concerned about committing to 6 weeks somewhere that she’s never been before. As a parent, I love the idea of pre-college programs because they give the students a chance to check out a school and see if it’s somewhere they actually might want to attend, so we would likely only send her to ones that have the actual university faculty teach the classes (this was the case with the program she attended this summer).

What do you all think? I searched and didn’t find much recent discussion of Stagedoor, though I did find an excellent thread from around 2005 or 2006. Any thoughts or insights would be much appreciated. Thank you in advance! :slight_smile:

REPLY PART ONE:

I’ll pop in to share my thoughts. I cannot claim to have a child who has attended BOTH Stagedoor Manor AND a pre-college MT program on a college campus. I am still quite familiar with the pre-college programs, having advised many students who have attended these and also guided them with the selection and application process to such summer pre-college programs. However, on a personal level, my own daughter went to Stagedoor Manor for 8 summers for a total of 16 3-week sessions. My daughter is now a professional in the musical theater field.

First, since you don’t know anyone personally who attended Stagedoor, I cannot extol its virtues enough. This program had a significant impact on my daughter’s life!! To say she loved Stagedoor is putting it mildly. I have known umpteen kids who have attended during her 8 year tenure there and many who came after (and have worked with many of them too). As you may know, Stagedoor now has participants ranging from age 10 to 18. In that one regard, it is unlike a pre-college program that often has rising juniors and seniors in HS only. They offer a wide array of classes in all aspects of musical theater and drama. They also have many levels of each style of dance classes. There are some “master” level classes by audition, and dance classes are by placement,but for the most part, a student can sign up for whatever classes they wish to take.

In addition to classes, the program mounts at least 13 full scale productions in every 3 week session. They produce both plays and musicals and a student can decide which type they prefer to be cast in (but not which show they are in). Everyone gets cast in a show. They only have 2.5 weeks to mount the show and so the pace is fast and the level of professionalism is high. They also put on shows that include some that are not typically produced in some schools. Sometimes they premiere shows where they are the first youth productions of that musical or play and work with companies like MTI in developing these. The directors, musical directors and choreographers are all professionals and not “counselors.” The casts tend not to go over 25 actors and so each kid is truly featured in some capacity. The shows tend to be for various age groups that are not clearly delineated, but suffice it to say that most productions don’t have actors in it from age 10 to 18. There are sorta younger, middle and older casts, but this is not rigid and can depend on the nature of the production. The student is taking classes, while simultaneously rehearsing their play or musical (there are auditions on the first day or two of the session).

Also, while everyone is cast in a show, there is an additional cabaret troupe and acting troupe that are by audition and are of a very high caliber, and lean toward the older range of those who attend. My kid was in this cabaret troupe all 8 summers and she would say it was a highlight of her summers there. It is very fast paced and the talent is typically very high.

This is not like a typical camp at all. Everyone eats and breathes theater. It is really for the kid super passionate about this field. There is a varying degree of talent among participants. I will say that since I have seen approximately 70 musical productions and 16 cabaret casts, that usually the leads (and others) are extremely talented.

Not everyone who attends Stagedoor goes on to pursue a college theater or MT program, but many do, including both BFA and BA degree programs. Stagedoor alumni have been admitted to a wide array of BFA programs, including all the so-called “top” ones. My D had Stagedoor pals at ALL of the well known programs when she was in college. Further, a large number of my D’s Stagedoor peers from her 8 years attending, are now successful in musical theater, plays, movies, TV, directing, music, as well as other facets of the field, including at the very highest levels. I feel like I can say “i knew them when!” I am truly in awe of her friendship group from Stagedoor and what they are doing now.

That leads to another thing…a HUGE part of attending Stagedoor Manor has been the friendship bonds made there. Now, I know that can happen at many summer programs of all types!!! But if a kid returns for several summers, they really build deep bonds. My D’s friendship circle today (she is now 27) is FULL of former Stagedoor Manor campers (so many extremely successful ones). Her maid of honor in her upcoming wedding went there too. There is a lot of networking of former Stagedoorians, such as in NYC or elsewhere. I will add that the participants at Stagedoor come from every state and from many countries. The first summer my kid attended, I was astounded by the talent. It gave me perspective and also some affirmation of my own kid’s talents among a group of “standouts” from all over the country and not just in our own community or state.

Lastly, my kid not only loved Stagedoor immensely (as do I), but she truly learned a great deal. She had access to classes that we didn’t have at home. She got to participate in so many musicals and so many roles and on such a professional style level. Her work in the Our Time Cabaret really even showed her how a show of that sort can be put together and she created her own types of shows like this for her high school back home. Since my D attended, they now also have a chance for kids to submit original plays that get selected and performed (called DRAMAFEST), which is quite something. I forgot to mention that they have various guest artists that add excitement. In fact, my D, for example, (but not due to Stagedoor in any way), has now as an adult, gotten to work with some people who were formerly guest artists at Stagedoor, such as Jeanine Tesori and others.

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REPLY PART TWO (CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST)^^^^^^^^

OK, so enough about Stagedoor Manor itself. You ask which might be a better experience for your D, going there or going to a pre-college program. I believe one is not better than the other but just a different type of experience and both have great value and I’d leave it to your D to choose what she wants to do. My D never considered pre-college programs because she started Stagedoor at age 9 and lived all year to get to return the following summer. In fact, I should warn you that if your D attends Stagedoor, she may want to go back the rest of her high school summers (nothing wrong with that…as most Stagedoor kids who attend more than one summer, never do a pre-college program and yet get into great college BFA and BA programs). One of the big differences between these two options is at some pre-college programs, the student only takes classes and doesn’t put on any productions (nothing wrong with that!!). A few pre-college programs still stage shows (OCU, for example). At a pre-college program, the student lives on a college campus and with mostly just kids in the same age group. The student often attends that program for just one summer (there are exceptions). Many pre-college programs require auditions, though some do not. Please be aware that just because a program doesn’t require an audition (such as Stagedoor or CMU pre-college), some highly talented kids attend. My opinion for my own children at the time, and also in advising high school students as I do in my job, is to not pick a summer program based on how it may help for college admissions, but rather pick a summer program based on how you want to spend the summer. That is what my kids did (and still got into their top pick colleges).

I realize you mention that a pre-college program allows a student to check out that university’s program over the summer and perhaps even some of its regular faculty. To me, while that has some value, it wouldn’t matter to me so much because that is just ONE school, and with the odds of admission, the child may not even be admitted to that program down the line. College visits to many schools served us well. A pre-college program, plus I feel this applies to Stagedoor even too (which isn’t a pre-college program), is a chance to do a full immersion in theater for the summer and get an idea if that intensity is right for them. So, it is not so much about whether that particular college program is right for them (because who knows if they will even be admitted given the odds), but whether a program of that sort is what they want to do when they get to college. It is not for everyone. I will say that Stagedoor has a very intense schedule, and even though it is not a pre-college program, it really is a full immersion.

As you suggested, your D could spend 3 weeks at Stagedoor and 3 weeks at a pre-college program. Or, she could go to Stagedoor next summer prior to her junior year, and do a pre-college program the summer prior to senior year and then have experienced both!

See if you can get names of current campers or students at the programs you are looking into and have your D chat with them to feel it out more. That can help too.

Best of luck…I think you can’t go wrong either way.

I 100% echo soozievt!! Stagedoor changed my daughters life! She was there 6 years, in Our Time Cabaret every year and couldn’t wait to get there every summer. The friendships she made will last a lifetime and it was helpful during her college search that she knew friends in basically every single program. We didn’t even know pre-college programs existed, so I can’t speak to that, but we have nothing but amazing things to say about Stagedoor. It’s going to be very hard not heading there next summer…

Hi. I have had 2 daughters attend French Woods which is right down Rt 17 from Stagedoor. Both of my kids loved every single second that they were on the French Woods ground. I will second that the bonds that they formed at camp are truly special. It is also great to be in a place where everyone lives, breathes and sleeps theater. My younger daughter will be a Senior this year, and she left to do Cherubs at Northwestern this summer. One of the first questions that I asked her was how did it compare to French Woods. She felt she learned a lot more academically during the precollege program while French Woods was more fun. It makes sense. French Woods is a camp while the precollege program is a condensed college semester. One of the things your daughter and you have to think about is what do you want out of the summer. Is is fun? Or learning academically? I would think that my kids experiences at FWF has to be similar to the experiences at Stagedoor. Also, she worked very, very hard this summer at the precollege program. She had a ton of homework which she didn’t mind doing because she loved it. But, that is another thing to ask…how much work does your daughter want to do in the summer?

By the way, I have another daughter who went to French Woods for four summers. There are some similarities between French Woods and Stagedoor Manor, but many differences as well.

Stagedoor changed my daughter’s life. It is really a magical place - and run by truly good people. HOWEVER, I will warn you that what I think my daughter would say was the best part was the relationships that developed during her 5 years there. Though of course going once would be a great experience, much of the magic comes from returning “home” as they say there. Inotherwords, if they go, they want to go back. And back and back. Be prepared.

^^^^THIS! You have been warned! :))

My D never did stagedoor/interlochen/french woods - (she did a local program that was really great - kids in those shows have gone on to great BFAs- even bway) though she had any number of friends who did. She did do a pre college.

I think it depends on what you are looking for- and what resources you have/want to use. I wasn’t ready for my D to be gone for 3-6 weeks (depending on camp) in MS and early HS. I know she would have loved any of the camps- but she loved what she got to do here - and it was 30 min away and a LOT less $$ (all in maybe $1k, not $5k+). If we had not had access to the local resource, I might have done things differently. I think at camp you get to be with “your” people - from all across the country- and have the fun of putting on a show. I think at pre college you also get to meet “your” people (though often a smaller #) and get a picture of what a BFA program looks like. Both are great options/opportunities.

I think one of the issues that CAN come with a camp is that kids do want to go back again and again - and therefore might not look into other opportunities. In the shows my kid did in the summers- she definitely grew as she matured, moved up the ranks, and took on new/challenging roles - but IDK how much the overall program changed from year to year.

A college program is a whole other kettle of fish. If I had the entire thing to do over again- I would have had my kid do as many college programs as possible. NOT to get a leg up on admissions - but to experience (1st hand) the way different colleges work. All 4 of the colleges where she was accepted had pre college programs - she had applied and was accepted to 3 (the 4th school came on list a little later) She chose the school that she had already attended- and loved. But you know what- I bet she would have loved the pre college at the other 3 as well. I wonder if it would have shaped her choices in different ways. I wish she could have had the same level of familiarity at the other schools.

Now obviously- I would need to be a fortune teller to have picked the schools accurately (she was also accepted at summer programs at 2 schools where she was not accepted for BFA) But information is power.

My D did not do any camps, but she did do two pre-college programs: CMU and Pace, in that order. We never went into it with the expectation that it gave her a leg up on admissions to either school (if fact, she did not get into either), but only with the hope that it would better prepare her for college auditions. CMU, in particular, did that. She worked directly with Gary Kline and Don Wadsworth, in addition to some other wonderful faculty, and got feedback throughout the six-week program, as well as written feedback when she was done. Gary Kline, in particular, told her exactly what she needed to improve upon to be considered, in his words, “for the top programs.” When she auditioned for the school this past winter, he asked her what he had told her to work on after her summer. She told him, and his response was, “Well, you’ve fixed that now.” And he had one of the students helping to run the auditions make sure she was seen by Don for her monologues. She considered that a win, and so did I. It boosted her confidence immensely for the remainder of her auditions, even though she knew her chances of getting into CMU were almost nonexistent.

How much are camps vs pre college generally?

After reading this thread I went and looked at Stage Door Manor… it is roughly $6,000 for three weeks.

for a comparison my daughter who is not in high school yet, attended OCU’s summer program for middle school and it was about $2,500 for two weeks. She has also done Rider’s MS program and it is only a week but comparable in cost to OCU.

We decided (she and I) to do college programs instead of camp, she had done 5 years at a traditional summer camp, because she wants to spend time on college campuses to see what that felt like.

Hi @soozievt! Thank you so much for your thoughtful and detailed response! :slight_smile: I remembered from reading old threads that your D loved it there, so I’d hoped you’d chime in.

My D is actually the one who asked me to start this discussion, LOL…she knows that I am on here regularly and that I have you and so many other incredibly generous CC members to thank for the incredible amount of information I’ve gathered in the year and a half since I first learned of this board. For whatever reason, people in our area either aren’t very informed about the crazy BFA MT process or choose not to share information…but now I happily share it with anyone who will listen! :slight_smile:

My D really loves what you said about Stagedoor doing many shows that aren’t as commonly done at HS and youth theaters…so that is definitely a plus. She was really excited about the list on their website, and and she also knew about and was very jealous about some of the guest artists they had last year. It really seems like an amazing program, and I wish I had listened to her when she was 9…but understand that back then she was even afraid to sleep over at a friend’s house, so I couldn’t imagine sending her away across the country by herself for three weeks and having her be able to handle it.

We know that the talent level there is very, very high despite the “no-audition” aspect…and that’s part of the draw too…to be able to see how she measures up in the national playing field and what she needs to work on. She had a taste of that this summer (she went to the OCU 3-week camp) and came home incredibly motivated and fired up to implement the things she learned there. I definitely hear you on how they can fall in love with a program and then only want to go back there though…she definitely fell head over heels for OCU (and full disclosure, she went to the Jr High camp there last year and loved it too), and my D and I both know that is very dangerous. The director was quite clear that just because you get into the camp doesn’t mean you will get accepted to the MT program…and we know the odds are long. But it is a great comfort to know that if she were lucky enough to be accepted there, we know enough about the (current) faculty and the program to know she’d be in great hands. :slight_smile: But that is definitely why we both want her to do two programs next summer…she is determined to audition for and try to go back to OCU again, but we both agree that it’s important for her to experience something different as well.

The OCU schedule was incredibly intense too…very similar to how you described Stagedoor…classes all day, rehearsals until 10 or 11 in the evening. She thrived on it and is sad that she isn’t still there, lol!

Thank you again for your generosity both on this thread, and on the board in general! It is much appreciated. :slight_smile:

Thank you @stagedoormama! My D is so envious that your D and @soozievt’s got to attend so many years!

Hi @toowonderful ! My D would definitely agree with what you said about being with “your people”. Even though she attends a PA school, not every student who goes there is necessarily interested in pursing a career in their art form, or necessarily takes it as seriously as she does. She’s one of those kids who is “14 going on 40”…and has always been very serious and driven, from the time she was a very little girl and simply wouldn’t let it go until I enrolled her in her first performing class at age 4. This summer at OCU she definitely felt like she was with kindred spirits, and people whose dedication and passion were similar to hers.

And I agree…these programs don’t offer a leg up on admissions, but indeed, information is power. Thanks so much for your response! :slight_smile:

Thanks for your response @CTDramaMom . The CMU program is definitely on her list for the future. A friend of hers attended this summer and had rave reviews similar to yours, and it did a world of good for her confidence as well. :slight_smile:

Edited to add: I just remembered that an older acquaintance of D’s went to Pace this summer. His mom is very friendly, so I’ll have to see if she’s willing to share his thoughts on that program as well.

Hi @KTVoice ! I remember that your D was at OCU this summer too! My D loved the Jr High program and thought it was great, but describes the HS program as “life-changing”. Do you think you will consider it for your D next year? And what did you think of Rider’s program? That’s one that’s on my D’s list of potential programs for next summer as well, and I’ve not seen it discussed much on CC.

@muttsandMT, another thing to consider is ArtsBridge, where the kids get audition prep and instruction/feedback from different faculty at many of the top MT programs. Though it is not performance-based and not necessarily on a college campus (though I think the program often is held on one), it is a good way to see how the kids “click” with some of the faculty from these programs.

I have kids who have done both. I have 2 kids who have gone to Stagedoor (one a rising college Jr. and another rising HS Jr). One in between them - a rising college freshman - is heading off to SUNY Purchase next week. she did the CMU pre-college program so I’ll share my opinion on both.

I agree with @soozievt regarding her D’s experience at Stagedoor. Both of my kids who have gone are/were very serious about getting the training offered. There are many kids who eat/sleep/drink/breathe theatre (or dance) but there are some kids who are not as serious. I noticed it more this summer than I ever did the summers my S attended. That said, there are a plethora of performance and training opportunities. Both of my kids made it into the cabaret and were able to take some of the higher-level training courses (they both started in HS and had some training under their belts coming in). The time at Stagedoor for both of them was intense and rewarding but overall (despite having training courses), performance-focused. They have added some specific audition courses (I think even a specific college audition course) but above all, the time was spent putting up both the show in which they were cast and the cabaret. Of course, we love spending performance weekends there and getting the chance to know some of the other kids and their parents. Many show up in the college audition rounds and it’s nice to see familiar faces.

My S (rising MT Junior) is working summer rep this summer for a director he met at Stagedoor. He made some wonderful friends and some industry connections through his time there and he feels his time there really solidified his passion for theatre. One of the artistic directors helped with his college list the summer of his HS Jr year (completely on her own time - over the phone after his sessions were over). My S KNEW he wanted to pursue a BFA and felt he didn’t need a pre-college program to solidify that choice.

My D (rising HS Junior) went for the first time this summer and really loved it. She’s asking to go back so I will be making the deposit. I agree with the sentiment that once they go, they want to go back :-). However, next summer she may have interest in a pre-college program (she’ll decide this fall) and I don’t think we could swing both in the same summer. She has not narrowed her focus yet and may benefit from a hands-on college experience.

My D (rising college freshman - acting) opted not to attend Stagedoor. Her focus is not MT and she felt (after seeing plays and musical at Stagedoor) that she wouldn’t get the same benefits from Stagedoor as a straight actor. She really needed to determine how she planned to approach college and whether she was suited for the intensity of a BFA -conservatory-type training so she chose to spend the summer between Jr and Sr year at CMU. She did spend much more “academic” time than my Stagedoor kids and she got to spend time with some of the full-time CMU faculty. Her time at CMU was primarily process based (vs performance based). What she really learned over the summer was that she does want the all-consuming life of a BFA student and that not being a “normal” college kid was really going to be ok with her. She picked up some terrific audition materials, tips and critiques at CMU which my Stagedoor kids did not. I will echo @bwaygirl1 - the pre-college program was ALOT of work. My D was often preparing for class late into the evening; it wasn’t all fun and games!

Best of luck.

@KTVoice and @muttsandMT - so glad you all enjoyed OCU! Our D attended the OCU camp only once (between her freshman and sophomore years of high school )and she too fell in love. The following summer she went to mPulse at UM and the summer between junior and senior year we used our “camp” funds to work with a coach rather than go to a camp.

I always felt like OCU was a great fit for her but we explored all options during her audition year. I think it just confirmed for her it was indeed the best place for her. We had no regrets because we felt like we had explored all options… And this year we came full circle because as a rising senior she was a counselor at camp!

With re: to her OCU camp friends, a few ended up at OCU but they also ended up at CCM, NYU, Elon, Pace, Belmont, Illinois Wesleyan, Millikin, University of Oklahoma, Indiana, Ball State, Coastal Carolina and many others. You are correct that not all were accepted to OCU when it came to audition time. However, It was really fun during audition season to see many of them who were older than her already firmly ensconced on their college campuses. So keep up with those camp friends!

If you can try some other camps on other campuses I think it’s a great idea. It will open up your eyes to other possibilities. And help you make a great decision after all your auditions are done.
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