<p>My contention is that the MAJORITY of students who are applying to HYP usually apply to one, due to cost (separate application fees). Three applications plus sending all the testing scores is expensive and time consuming. These supplements are involved and require additional essays and questions to be answered above and beyond the common application. HYP sees dilution in their numbers because of this.</p>
<p>For the west coast student the common application can be used to apply to USC, UCLA, and UCB. The west coast student only has to pay for one additional application to apply to Stanford. Therefore Stanford will not see the dilution that HYP sees. I would bet HYP loses some apps to MIT and Columbia.</p>
<p>This thread is speaking to the very low acceptance rate, in essence, touting the prestige factor. What makes you think the students think differently? This just solidifies my thoughts that the UC schools are not viewed by west coast students to be as prestigious as Stanford. If so, the UC schools would have very low admittance rates comparable to HYPSM and Columbia</p>
<p>In the northeast the UC schools are not viewed as prestigious as Stanford.</p>
<p>I feel the need to reiterate that I do not feel this way. I am just speaking to the young 18 year old student perception</p>
<p>I disagree. Stanford supplementary essay is demanding. It’s one of the reasons that my west coast kids did not apply to Stanford. Supplementary essay is optional for Harvard but it’s required for Stanford.</p>
<p>Application cost is not a factor the group of students aiming for HYP.</p>
<p>And students cannot use the common application for the UC campuses. The UC has its own application.</p>
<p>Highly unlikely to be a factor. The majority of matriculants are full pay, i.e., top 5%'ers. I would surmise that the majority of applicants would be as well, if they were admitted.</p>
<p>Bluebayou, you are assuming the applicant pool and the enrolled student pool have the same financial situation. I think that assumption is dead wrong. The majority of those applying are not qualified for admission. It is a lottery ticket purchase, they are not going to take the time to complete 2, 3 or 4 supplemental applications. </p>
<p>Coolweather,
Stanford’s application is demanding and your child did not want to complete it. Why would you think most students would want to fill out 2, 3, or 4 apps. You are agreeing with what I am saying. MIT supplemental application is extremely demanding as well.</p>
<p>For informational purposes I provide the following (I used the most recent common data set available for each school).</p>
<p>Princeton’s common data set 2013-2014 year.<br>
enrolled students 1296, 778 awarded aid, full pay students are NOT the majority.</p>
<p>Harvard’s common data set 2011-1012 year
enrolled students 1657, 1046 awarded aid, full pay students are NOT the majority.</p>
<p>Yale common data set 2013-2014
enrolled students 1358, 681 awarded aid, full pay students are NOT the majority.</p>
<p>If one reads Harvard announcement, they take pride in stating the number of people who are applying with a fee waiver to tout the importance of their financial aid program. Application fees are not an issue for most applicants across the income spectrum except some in the middle who won’t be able to apply to many schools when they don’t qualify for a waiver but are constrained by how much they can spend.</p>
<p>^ Just one data point that was several years ago:</p>
<p>I believe NONE of matriculants from DS’s high school to these schools were very likely from a family of top 5%'ers. I do not know how many of these schools they applied to though. (This was several years ago.)</p>
<p>I knew one non-top 5%'er was asked to be a full pay student. Another non-top 5%'er decided to attend the flagship public school instead of H. One almost decided against going there but changed the mind at the last minute. (I am glad their family changed their mind. I believe he has headed to the Wall St, trying to “recover” the cost of attending such a school.)</p>
<p>This was before the “middle class initiative” for these schools.</p>
<p>The families which sent their child to DS’s high school must be “poor” relative to the majority of the students attending one of these schools, if the majority of the students attending such schools are top 5 %'ers.</p>
<p>The middle class is the majority of the students applying to college. This the group I am speaking about. They will buy a lottery ticket…but one only. Do not forget the cost of sending the test scores, cost is an issue. I am in this group and the majority of people I know are in this group. There are many, many families making less than $230,000 year (5% mark) who apply to HYP. I would like to add making $150,000 year is not living in luxury in the northeast. Families making that amount MUST watch their pennies.</p>
<p>There is probably a small percentage of fee waiver students applying to HYP, the majority of students are from middle class families. </p>
<p>It is unfortunate that their aren’t statistics, especially by major, that detail how many of the Stanford grads will go on to get jobs that they would not have gotten had they gone to a state school for a fraction of the cost. In these times, a school like Stanford is likelty gonna place whole families in the poorhouse unless they are obscenely wealthy or know exactly how to work the system to get full tuition and other expense related FA.</p>
<p>In response to these complaints: that faculty have allegedly said:</p>
<p>"(1) They are sick and tired of entrepreneurial culture. It’s exciting, and has brought the university lots of benefits, but it has become a real distraction, with many students essentially dropping academics altogether, not just to invent things, but to get funding, hire employees, negotiate contracts. The volume of it has gotten out of hand. They want the college to be a college, not a business incubator.</p>
<p>(2) The disinterest in anything that isn’t STEM is reaching near-crisis proportions. They are desperate for more humanities majors. The applications viewed most favorably in the future may be those who look like they want to major in French Lit or Religious Studies. "
It is not clear why these faculty are surprised by this in any way
shape or form. Students nowadays are increasingly looking for<br>
majors that can help them comfortably pay back loan debt<br>
and granted , while those majors are not all in STEM,<br>
a majority of them are .</p>
<p>It sounds like these faculty have been taken fro granted<br>
student loan money that has ultimately been used<br>
to finance unreasonably lavish college expenses and which<br>
has been basically taken from typical tax payers to do so.<br>
There is a lot of talk about what the feds should do to make college affordable but<br>
quite frankly these faculty often really are part of the problem.</p>
<p>It seems like many of the faculty, particularly in those departments<br>
where the fewest amount of jobs related to that major are<br>
available , are dependent on s tudents and
their parents having the exact same view on elite colleges<br>
and sending kids to these colleges regardless of their<br>
chosen major that they have had for years. </p>
<p>They have a sort of personal incentive to maintain a system<br>
where families cripple themselves financially in order
to afford the most desired schools or, increasingly nowadays,<br>
any school at all. </p>
<p>These are misleading because they didn’t break down the value of monetary award. For all we know, 3/4 of those awarded aid received just 2K or just WS.</p>
<p>Because one of my kids already had an EA admittance. They applied to HYP but not Stanford because the supplementary essay was optional for Harvard (and if I remember correctly P and Y too). My kids said something like Stanford supplementary essay question was weird and required 4000 words (not sure I remember correctly).</p>
<p>I don’t know what I agree with you. I did not read the posts before the last 15 posts.</p>
<p>Look, if kids are applying to 6, 8, 10 or more colleges, they are (presumably) putting the effort into those apps- so who’s to say only one is a super selective? </p>
<p>Thanks for those links , however, my experiences both in applying<br>
for college and interacting with college applicants is that<br>
only small minorities actually get that full demonstrated need you speak of. </p>
<p>And if those students do indeed get loan debts of 90 k or more ,
there’s gonna be a heck of a lot of them , even coming out of St anford<br>
who are at best gonna be living uncomfortable paycheck to paycheck lives. </p>
<p>In our times, the founders of Google hardly represent the typical Stanford grad. </p>
<p>No one is going into the poor house because of Stanford.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>No one said it does.
Look at the actual link and see that the 10 year median donation is $31k.
That is a big number for all those people put in the poor house by Stanford. LOL…</p>
<p>Here is more info:
The average financial aid package is 41k.
The average student debt after 4 years (for those with debt) is $23k, which considering that also covered room and food for 4 years, in addition to a degree, sounds like quite the deal</p>
<p>So your hyperbole about 90k in loans and the poor house is just hyperbole.</p>