<p>^^. The article clearly says jobs in “government”, as in US government, and clearly says regardless of degree(s) earned. Clicking on a few of the frames, it rapidly becomes clear that a AB/BA doesn’t take one very far. Sure, an exception or two (Prez. Clintonm for example), but most of the others have plenty of grad degrees (which just reinforces my earlier point.)</p>
<p>bluebayou-Your point about the value of graduate education is well taken and most BSFS degree holders go on to obtain graduate degrees. However, it cannot be denied that the degree is an excellent beginning toward launching a career at the highest levels. Here is a small sample of BSFS degree holders from Georgetown. It gives one a flavor of how the degree can be used, even if the degree is only a “first stop” along the educational pathway:</p>
<p>William Jefferson Clinton (F’68), 42nd President of the United States
U.S. Sen. Richard Durbin (F’66), D-IL , Majority Whip of US Senate
U.S. Rep. Henry Cuellar (F’78), D-TX
Gov. Pat Quinn (F’71), D-IL
Gov. Luis Fortuno (F’82), R-PR
former Gov. Toney Anaya (F’64), D-NM
Gen. James Jones (Ret.) (F’66), former National Security Adviser
George Tenet (F’76), former director of Central Intelligence
Paul Clement (F’87), former Solicitor General of the United States, Lead counsel on the Individual Mandate issue at the Supreme Court last month
Victoria Espinel (F’89), Intellectual Property Enforcement Coordinator, Executive Office of the President
Dana Gresham (F’94), Assistant Secretary for Governmental Affairs, U.S. Department of Transportation
Senior Officials at U.S. Department of State:
Patrick F. Kennedy (F’71), Under Secretary for Management
Philip L. Verveer (F’66), Deputy Assistant Secretary and U.S. Coordinator for International Communications and Information Policy
Stephen Mull (F’80), Executive Secretary
U.S. Ambassadors/Diplomats:</p>
<p>Alexander A. Arvizu (F’80), Ambassador to Albania
Amb. Donald E. Booth (F’76), Ambassador to Ethiopia
Glyn T. Davies (F’79) – Representative to the Vienna Office of the United Nations and Representative to the International Atomic Energy Agency
Amb. Judith Gail Garber (F’83), Ambassador to Latvia
Amb. Tatiana C. Gfoeller-Volkoff (F’83, MSFS’83), Ambassador to Kyrgyzstan
Amb. Scott Gration (SSP’88), Ambassador to Kenya
Amb. Eric G. John (F’82), Ambassador to Thailand
Amb. Franklin L. Lavin (F’79), Ambassador to Singapore
Amb. Hugo Llorens (F’77), Ambassador to Honduras
Amb. Richard Boyce Norland (F’77), Ambassador to Uzbekistan
Amb. James C. Swan (F’84), Ambassador to Djibouti
U.S. Military/Civilian Service to Armed Forces & Defense Dept.:
Erin C. Conaton (F’92), Under Secretary of the Air Force, incoming Under Secretary of Defense
Jamie Morin (F’96), Assistant Secretary of the Air Force for Financial Management/Comptroller, U.S. Department of Defense
Paul L. Oostburg Sanz (F’91), General Counsel, U.S. Department of the Navy </p>
<h2>George W. Casey Jr. (F’70), former Chief of Staff, U.S. Army </h2>
<p>Foreign Leaders and Diplomats:
Gloria Macapagal Arroyo (F’68), former president of the Philippines, current member of the Philippines House of Representatives </p>
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<p>Non-Governmental Organizations/Non-Profits:
Mohammed bin Hamad Al-Thani (F’09), Chairman, Qatar 2022 World Cup Committee
Parag Khanna (F’99, SSP’05), Director of the Global Governance Initiative, The New America Foundation
Tessie San Martin (F’80), CEO, Plan USA
Lane Kirkland (F’48) , former AFL-CIO President</p>
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<p>Corporate:
David Fox (F’81), Vice Chairman, J.P. Morgan
Raj Kumar (F’97), President, The Development Executive Group (DEVEX)
Debora Spar (F’84), President, Barnard College and member Board of Direcctorsof Goldman Sachs</p>
<p>Poor Oxford, it has been largely forgotten in this thread. I can’t think why, it offers unrivaled academic prestige and more opportunities to students than any university I know.</p>
<p>I absolutely disagree with your son’s house mother; modern languages are an excellent degree to have. You learn new skills that are increasingly important in a globalised society. But you learn much more than a language; you study literature, history, art, cinema, linguistics and social policy. You can even take classes in other languages, from Yiddish to Ukrainian. Most jobs do not require specific degrees outside the engineering and science industries anyway; the only difference between an economics graduate and a language graduate to most employers is the latter’s ability to communicate effectively with international clients.</p>
<p>If your son is genuinely interested in languages and literature then Oxford is the undoubtedly the best choice, there will of course be the opportunity to study the politics, histories and cultures of Germany and Russia at Oxford - but be under no allusions, language and literature are a huge part of the course.</p>
<p>All language degrees in the UK require you to spend your third year abroad. This year abroad is unlike American study abroad, it is not a holiday or a chance to boost ones CV with meaningless internships - it is a proper year at university, just abroad. You have to manage your time, find somewhere to live and look after yourself - nobody will do it for you. Students of Russian can either attend a local university where they’re given quite a lot of freedom to study what they want (possibly study IR whilst abroad?) or you can spend a year teaching English at a school. Most students divide their time between two cities; half of the time in either Moscow or St Petersburg and the other half in a smaller provincial city where one can better practice their language skills.</p>
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<p>Yeah, no offense, but your son’s host mother sounds absolutely clueless. University not the place to study languages? Can’t get a job with an Oxford degree? None of this is even remotely true. You shouldn’t let this woman shape your son’s opinions.</p>
<p>If your son wants to go into international politics/public affairs, I don’t see why he would turn down the opportunity to get his undergraduate degree at one of the best universities in the world, which also happens to be located outside of the US, and would thus give him the opportunity to really become comfortable navigating foreign cultures and communication styles (not just the UK, but also Russia and possibly a large part of Europe, over break and the like). Modern languages is a very versatile degree in the UK, in terms of job prospects, and I can’t imagine he would have any problems finding work with an Oxford diploma. That being said, if he is genuinely opposed to studying language and literature exclusively, he should go to school in the US.</p>
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<p>Maybe so. However, one could put together a similar list of Stanford alumni:
[List</a> of Stanford University people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“List of Stanford University faculty and staff - Wikipedia”>List of Stanford University faculty and staff - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>What’s different about this list? It contains not only a long, impressive section on notable alumni in politics and law, but also long lists of notable alumni in academia, science, computing and engineering, the arts, journalism, business, and sports. Notice, too, the long sub-section on “Notable Stanford Faculty and Affiliates”. Stanford is a stronger all-around research university than Georgetown. </p>
<p>Stanford’s average undergraduate class sizes are smaller, too (~70% < 20 v. ~61% < 20). Stanford’s endowment is over $1M per student (one of the highest in the nation); Georgetown’s is less than $100K per student (comparable to William Jewell College or Fairfield University). This means Stanford has greater resources to shower on facilities, faculty hiring & research, or student aid.</p>
<p>Georgetown does leverage its DC location well. For a political junkie, it’s a good place to spend 4 years. However, bluebayou is right, Georgetown “connections” really won’t help you break into entry level jobs in the federal government. You might get good career advice from people who have been there, done that. However, everybody still has to jump through the same bureaucratic hiring hoops. “Georgetown” on your resume is unlikely to bump you ahead, and “Stanford” surely will not hold you back.</p>
<p>vienna man, in the Foreign Policy magazine rankings, Georgetown came in #1 for master’s programs, which it deserves. If you look at both master’s and undergrad, I can see why it would be #2.</p>
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<p>Gotta love British disdain for Americans ;)</p>
<p>The study abroad at these American universities is serious - you take real classes and immerse yourself in the country. You also aren’t required to do an entire year - you have the option of 1, 2, 3, or even more quarters abroad (I know someone who spent 5 quarters abroad).</p>
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<p>But where do you take the classes, that is the question. I know a lot of Americans who’ve studied abroad; very few of them attended local universities. Most of them took classes with their American professors who flew out especially, a rather pointless exercise if you ask me.</p>
<p>For post graduation opportunities Stanford ir is about = Georgetown sfs.
For the next four years the opportunities are vastly different and frankly come down to lifestyle preferences.</p>
<p>How about a little word association?</p>
<p>Stanford curriculum or sfs curriculum
Quarter systems or semesters
Summer dc internships or academic year and/or summer dc internships
East coast or west coast
The beltway or silicon valley
Big east basketball or PAC 12 football / basketball
City or suburb
Federal and gothic architecture or Mission style
Hoya or the cardinal
Strong researchers or strong practitioners
Tiger woods or Alonzo mourning
Old school or new school
Bradley cooper or Reese witherspoon
Love to hate Syracuse or love to hate berkeley</p>
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<p>They take them at universities…</p>
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<p>If only that were true. The vast majority of Americans who study abroad do so on prefabricated courses that are run by their home universities, specifically for American students. When on occasion these students physically enter university buildings, it is hardly ever to take classes with native students or professors - the study abroad programme they’re on just rents classroom space.</p>
<p>For post graduation opportunities Stanford = Georgetown sfs.
For the next for years the opportunities are vastly different and frankly come down to lifestyle preferences.</p>
<p>East coast west coast
Big east basketball PAC 12 football / basketball
City suburb
Federal and gothic architecture v. Mission style
Hoya or the cardinal
Strong researchers strong practitioners
Tiger woods or Alonzo mourning
Old school new school
Bradley cooper Reese witherspoon
Love to hate Syracuse or love to hate berkeley</p>
<p>Thanks for all the thoughtful posts. Skyped with my son yesterday and shared this thread; it was very helpful to him. We couldn’t agree more with Ghostt and Dionysus58 about his host mother–he has been subjected to her opinion for months (he found out about Oxford in December) and although he tries not to bring up the topic of colleges, she “shares” her opinion frequently. </p>
<p>Phantasmagoric, thank you for all the information you have shared about Stanford. If my son were to switch gears to the languages track (and think about the IR major later), do you think he could major in multiple languages (Russian and German) and minor in multiple languages too (Spanish and French or maybe Spanish and Persian)? I guess what I am asking is what is typical for a student–one major, one minor, or can you do more? Also, the study abroad is very important to him and he wants to do a full year in Russia, not just a quarter in Moscow. I know you can do multiple quarters, but Moscow is only offered in the autumn quarter. We know he can apply for transfer credit if he were to study junior year abroad with CIEE in St. Petersburg, but we have no idea of the likelihood of getting approval for non-Stanford programs. CIEE has not had any Stanford students studying with them in St. Petersburg in recent years, and the official Stanford position is that it will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis, which is fine except he is guaranteed the ability to study abroad for a year with Oxford and SFS. Do you have any insight into how difficult it is to study abroad for credit (and therefore graduate in four years) on non-Stanford programs? </p>
<p>Dionysus58, thank you for the additional information about Oxford. As I mentioned, my son was offered a place to read Russian (I should have specified, Beginners Russian) and German. But, he also wants to continue his study of Spanish. You mentioned that he can take classes in other languages so it sounds like it might be possible for him to continue his Spanish and maybe even pick up more languages. Would this be on an official basis (where he enrolls in those languages too) or unofficial (language clubs or just sitting in on lectures–no tutorials)? Also, although the comment about the disdain for Americans was made in jest, do you think it will be more difficult for him to make friends or earn the respect of his tutors as an American at Oxford?</p>
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<p>Let me fix that for you:</p>
<p>For post graduation opportunities any top Uni = any other top Uni.</p>
<p>:)</p>
<p>Whether it is possible to take extra language classes in an official capacity if one already studies two languages, I do not know. Your son should email the modern languages department, especially if this is a factor in his decision. Oxford has a very good language centre that is open to all students; if your son is not able to take extra language classes on his course, he’d still be able to study extra languages at the language centre in his free time and get an extra qualification to boot.</p>
<p>I do not disdain Americans, just their study abroad programmes. Whatever people’s feelings are towards the US government or its foreign policy, it certainly won’t be attributed to American students at Oxford. Nobody will think less of your son or treat him differently because of where he’s from. He may have to put up with a few jokes in the pub, but that’s it.</p>
<p>Zwiebel, yes it’s possible to major in two languages, but remember that they require you to take literature in that subject, culture classes, etc. as well as the language. It’s usually better just to take the language classes, unless of course he’s interested in more than just the language of multiple cultures.</p>
<p>Lots of students do minors. I’d say a major+minor is very common; many double major+minor. But there are many options, such as doing a concurrent degree (requiring 45 more units), or coterming (studying for MA while finishing BA, then taking an additional year to finish MA, so both in 5 years), or honors (requiring research/thesis), or double majoring, or minors/certificates. The larger point is that it’s not worthwhile to go after a bunch of degree programs for a title, esp. since many of these programs will have requirements outside of your interests. It’s more worthwhile to take courses within your interests, even though there’s only one ‘title’ on your diploma.</p>
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<p>He doesn’t need to worry about this. Stanford says that they do it on a case-by-case basis because they won’t approve of all university credit (many universities around the world are not credible at all). But I know people who studied abroad in programs outside of Stanford’s and had no problem getting transferring the credit. I think that’s generally the case, and CIEE should be no problem as well.</p>
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<p>I would pick Stanford in a heartbeat. I wouldn’t care about the distance from home (NY resident), and if finances weren’t a factor, definitely Stanford. Everything about the campus life, the atmosphere, the stellar, STELLAR academics in every single field… though I didn’t apply, if I could do it again, I would.</p>
<p>Any closure? Very interested to see where Zwiebel’s son will be attending next fall.</p>
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<p>Any closure? Very interested to see where Zwiebel’s son will be attending next fall. </p>
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<p>He chose Stanford!</p>
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<p>i agree a 100% .Gerogetown SFS is to die for. On another notes, i cant rally offer on much advice since im just beginning to apply to colleges myself. Georgetown is my top most choice and i would really really appreciate if you guys could comment as to how hard it is to get into Georgetown SFS. ive given GCSE’s and have 2A*s,1A,1B and a C. i do have a medical certificate for missing out on one exams, i got acute diarrhea and i think that pretty much messed up my maths exams as well since i got a C. I have a long and impressive list (hopefully) of extra curriculars. ive served as an assistant to a political analyst on national tv. i have an SAT score of somewhere around 2100s and have tons of letters of recommendations.i will also be applying as an international student and am not sure whether this will be an advantage or not. However i messed up pretty badly in my final year of high school. i have 2Bs and 1 A and 1C.and my midterm school report isnt all that great either. Do i have any chance of getting in? ill be applying in early action!please be honest and gve me your best advice! id be so grateful!</p>
<p>PLUS @Zwiebel!, coul dyou give me any insight as to your sons academic record or extra curricula or just something that you/he thinks got him acceptance into georgetown or all these other great unis? id be so grateful!</p>