Absolutely. Stanford is the biggest name after Harvard, is the most selective university and undergrad in the world, gets more apps, and has a higher yield.
Both Stanford and Harvard surpass Princeton by OP’s metric, and cross admit data.
The OP asked about “better,” “more selective,” and “more prestigious.” Please point me to the better and prestige metrics. As for “more selective,” if by that you mean lower admissions rate, I’ll grant that Stanford’s 4.6% is lower than Princeton’s 6.1%. On the other hand, that is about the dumbest metric to use in comparing schools. Maybe if Stanford could convince a few more low-aptitude high school students to apply (currently, 20% of applicants had SAT CR scores below 600; see http://admission.stanford.edu/basics/selection/profile.html), they could lower it even more…
Assuming this is the case, it is almost certainly a reflection of the geographic location of applicants. 36% of Stanford’s class consists of students from just California (40% if you exclude international students, see http://facts.stanford.edu/academics/undergraduate-profile). What proportion of students from the East Coast choose Stanford over Princeton?
The only piece I’ll add here is that Stanford’s recruited athletes may (or may not) make up a large % of those lower tiered applicants.
@sushiritto The recruited athletes probably do represent the bulk of the lower-stats students, but since only 1% of such applicants were in fact admitted (per http://admission.stanford.edu/basics/selection/profile.html), the other 99% are just fodder to put additional glow on Stanford’s admission rate.
No, the reality is that they do accept kids in the lower ranges. Their average test scores are lower than their peer group partly because of athletes and partly because they are willing to go deeper into the rough to find the diamonds. 18% of this year’s acceptances were first generation to go to college. For many low SES kids, Stanford is a dream come true and since they usually get fee waivers, it’s worth it to apply. Stanford is not trying to artificially inflate anything. In fact, they have been going out or their way not to to talk about yield and acceptance rates. I don’t think Stanford really cares about rankings and prestige. They attract the profs and students they want to attract and alumni are generous in giving back and that’s all that matters to them.
They accept 1% of them:
SAT Critical Reading</h2>
<h2>Score % of Applicants Admit Rate % of Class</h2>
800 10% 12% 22%
700 - 799 36% 7% 49%
600 - 699 34% 4% 24%
Below 600 20% 1% 5%
SAT Critical Reading</h2>
<h2>Score % of Applicants Admit Rate % of Class</h2>
800 10% 12% 22%
700 - 799 36% 7% 49%
600 - 699 34% 4% 24%
Below 600 20% 1% 5%
First of all, Princeton doesn’t even release these figures as far as I can tell so we can’t compare Princeton’s acceptance rates and what percentage of the applicant pool has low scores.
Second, according to Princeton’s latest CDS, a lower percentage of the class in all three SAT categories in the below 600 range make up the class at Princeton, so Stanford clearly admits more as a percentage of the class.
Third, it has been reported on CC that Stanford does much less mass marketing than H,Y or P. I know for a fact that Princeton has a huge outreach program for low SES especially targeting the mid and southwest. If Stanford wanted to truly play the admissions game it would emulate H,Y,And P and admit more early applicants and defer almost everyone less like HYP does instead of the reverse which actually discourages kids from applying early. That would drive up early applications and also enable them to see more of the strongest pool of applicants first. Unlike schools like UChicago which has engaged in a massive marketing campaign, Stanford has remained fairly low key.
@foosondaughter on the other hand, there are many top California students who want to experience something different and want to go east to an ivy.
I dont think geography is the main reason Princeton loses cross admits to Stanford. It definitely contributes but still Stanford loses significantly more cross-admits to Harvard and even Yale, than Princeton. I think it has more to do with the fact that Stanford has an overall stronger name/prestige globally and domestically,and in the rankings it is higher than Princeton is pretty much all fields.
The advantage that Stanford has is that for the tippy top students who want to go or remain west, there is only one school, while for those who either want to remain or come east, Princeton has to fight mainly Harvard, Yale, MIT for cross admits.
To make a good comparison we would have to know how many east coast cross-admits turn down Princeton for Stanford vs how many California cross-admits turn down Stanford for Princeton.
Personally I think Princeton is more of ‘niche’ school than any of H, Y or S. My D after researching what she wanted in an undergraduate school didn’t apply to H, Y or S and her 3 top choices were P, MIT, and UChicago as she felt they would be better schools to prepare her for life as an academic/researcher. When she went to an area alumni admitted student event she met many students that had applied to HYPS because basically they’re the best so it’s no surprise to me that there are a lot of cross admits that choose H and S over Y and P.
Comparing Princeton to HYS is like comparing orange to crimson to blue to cardinal colors. It’s that simple. All this fascination and obsession some folks (particularly by Stanford-affiliated, it appears) express regarding which school has greater prestige, better ranking, selectivity, popularity, higher yield, etc. etc. ad infinitum, is quite amusing.
Princeton, as Dolemite pointed out, is a niche school unlike HYS. It’s more like LACs as its focus is more on the undergrad than HYS – by historical mission and intention. Yet, it’s not LAC, either. It’s educational mission and purpose is unique and unlike any other institutions of higher education out there. Some students gravitate toward Princeton for its unique educational culture and some don’t – all for good reasons. I personally prefer and glad that prestige-seeking students choose HYS over Princeton. As a parent, I’d like to have my son enjoy the company of students who chose Princeton for what it arguably offers better than any other institutions of higher education, namely, the quality of undergrad education, opportunities, and close-knit communal collegiate experience, all backed up by its most impressive endowment per student and the 5:1 students-to-teacher ratio. I’m sure some students do still prefer what little more prestige they think would stoke their ego by committing to other schools, but, like I said, I’m happy with the self-weeding out process. As far as I know, no Princetonians are complaining about this or the “lack” of prestige. Princeton, like HYS, has enough yield percentage (historically highest at this point) to even worry about any dent to the overall quality of its student body. Institutions like HYPS can lose its entire class by freak accident only to be replaced by the next batch of student body that’s as good as the first batch. So all this cross-admit bragging is quite juvenile and amusing at best.
When I was helping my son narrow down the list of colleges to apply to, we came down to 1) Princeton, 2) Harvard, 3) Yale, 4) Williams, 5) Amherst, 6) Pomona, in that order of preference, as his top choices by his intended field of study, academic and extracurricular interests, and his best “fit.” He did apply to Stanford, UChicago and Duke as his secondary backup choices. Interestingly, most of the seven colleges that he was admitted to were what we had thought as great fit for him and the ones that he was waitlisted or rejected were the ones that we didn’t think were a great fit. It’s as if the AOs knew exactly what they were doing, namely, selecting those students that were the best fit for their campus. One of my son’s best friends was admitted to Stanford but rejected by Princeton. Again, it’s as if the AOs at Stanford and Princeton knew that this kid was a better fit at Stanford but not the kind of kid that Princeton wanted. For both kids, things worked out really nicely, thanks to their respective AOs keen eyes to details about both kids’ profiles.
It depends a lot on the department. I will say that Princeton puts a lot more attention towards its undergraduates than Stanford (since we have so many more undergraduates, and stanford has so many more graduates than undergrads). It’s much easier to get research opportunities on campus here than there, as far as I can tell.
Last summer I didn’t have summer plans yet, and fairly last minute the physics department here gave me a plasma physics internship - exactly what I wanted (I didn’t even have a great GPA or As in my physics classes). When I was interviewing for it, the person in charge of the program said that they’re (the physics dept) devoted to getting internships for any students who really want them, and it made a big impression on me. For comparison, the most qualified physicist I know my age, currently at MIT, (won intel, he’s taking only physics grad courses as an undergrad, etc.) had trouble getting research there, and was stuck doing biophysics that he didn’t enjoy or really want to do. This isn’t stanford, but it demonstrates Princeton’s devotion to undergrads relative to at least one other top school.
Since Stanford is the only college in West coast (in CA) out of HYPSM, if a student wants to stay in CA, he/she will go to Stanford. It’s simple as that. if a kid wants to study engineering and go to East coast, that kid will go to MIT. HYPSM splits all other categories. I am just talking about students who want to go to one of HYPSM and gets into more than one out of HYPSM. Out of HYPSM, I can see various reasons why one might choose one over others. I will say that the following were considerations for us:
- My kid preferred staying in West coast partly because of the weather and partly because he wants to work in West coast and Stanford has a good alumni network in West coast.
- Stanford had a good IR and languages learning center. He thinks he will major in IR, minor in economics and take many language classes.
- You can major in anything at Stanford.
- Stanford students seemed collaborative.
- My kid is not "crazy" about Humanities. Although he's a non-STEM, he's not the type to read novels and books and stay until 2 AM to discuss about them. But he might stay up to watch a movie though.
He did consider applying to Yale though because he thought it was a good fit for him. He generally likes large schools and did not like the feel of small liberal schools like Pomona etc.