Stanford lost my respect

<p>MatrixDad, the fact is that nobody knows why the yield increased. Your explanations are certainly not impossible, but there are <em>many</em> other explanations that are more likely (e.g. keeping EA program). From that perspective, your original post was a bit presumptuous, unfounded, unscientific, and honestly very childish. Perhaps it wasn’t intended that way.</p>

<p>At least for the past several decades (and potentially since it was founded), Stanford has always been <em>slightly</em> less numbers-focused than HY. They would claim that they’re trying to select for intellectual “spark” or “creativity.” I don’t know whether this can be identified from an application form – but from looking at how their graduates have literally changed the world through computers, information technology, etc (often before age 40), it could certainly be argued that they’re doing a good job. But others would argue that this means “more qualified” applicants (whatever that means) are being rejected.</p>

<p>MatrixDad,</p>

<p>Stanford’s SAT average had been lower than HY by about the same margin (40 on 1600 scale) for a long time, not just last year. This is why I said Stanford’s admission has always been more random, even back in the days when Stanford’s yield % was in the low 60s. I don’t think Stanford has made any significant change in admission practice in recent years and I think its rise in yield reflects its rise in popularity. The following article written in 2000 may help:

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<p>i think we should stop this discussion here. Hes lost respect for Stanford and I’ve lost respect for Harvard, where offspring of parents like him are going.</p>

<p>I would attribute Stanfords yield increase to the recent success of its sports teams. </p>

<p>Girls/Boys Basketball, Volleyball, have all been dominating this year. </p>

<p>Students admitted to HPYS and still wanted the D1 sports experience would clearly choose Stanford.</p>

<p>well all of HYPS is D1, it’s just that the quality of Stanford’s teams is more consistent across all sports. It’s not a coincidence that Stanford has won the NCAA Director’s cup 12 times in a row and counting.</p>

<p>At any rate, it seems to me that sour grapes are involved in making the assertion that Stanford has caught “Tufts Syndrome.”</p>

<p>What reason is there for yield protection anymore anyways? It’s no longer a factor in any college ranking methodology, so I don’t see why colleges would even bother. Stanford probably picks the best students/student matches it can.</p>

<p>I think the “randomness” of the acceptances of Stanford have a lot to do with their application. Harvard and Yale have applications that are pretty much identical. Stanford’s is lengthier, more personal, and more “creative” in order to identify that intellectual vitality they’re so fond of. There’s also a mini-essay asking why Stanford specifically would be the right place for the applicant, which the readers often read aloud during their committee meetings. By the virtue of the application and the admissions officers reading the applications, a different (perhaps more holistic?) impression of the applicant will be formed (versus the snapshot that HY’s two essays provide). Clearly, it’s a matter of admissions offices looking for different things; better writers and more creative people as well as folks who KNOW what an education at Stanford specifically is about will reap the benefit of Stanford’s application, while people who are not as adept at extensive written communcation/ “leaping off the page” or just applying because hell it’s Stanford!- are less likely to be accepted. HY’s applications, being more facts-based, seem to reward more hard, factual achievement. (Yale does have a space asking about why the applicant would want to go to Yale, but it’s 200 characters and would probably require all of five seconds to write.) Just a hypothesis, but it actually kind of makes sense when I think about the people I know who were admitted to these schools. </p>

<p>But the whole Tuft’s syndrome thing is silly, especially when I know many a cross admit who’s chosen Stanford over everything else.</p>

<p>I have actually heard a few rumors of Princeton practicing mild selective admissions to keep their yield up and their admit rate low, (which, again, anecdotally, would make sense based on some acquaintances) but there’s really no way to prove such a thing.</p>

<p>this whole thread is pretty ridiculous. stanford attracts some of the best and brightest students in the world. it is absurd that there is such a thing as being overqualified for stanford. matrix dad, have you ever even been to stanford? talked to its students? you should have heard the things president hennessy had to say about the class of 2012. and if you actually knew what you were talking about you might realize that PLENTY ( i cant say the exact number but quite a few ) admitted students are cross admits of at least another of the hypm schools, and i suppose if they were over qualified at stanford they would be as well for those other four, seeing as stanford is ridiculously good and high ranked academically in almost every single area (versus harvard where the engineering program could never rival stanford’s, or mit which is too science-oriented, etc.). if other schools have tufts syndrome, its so they dont lose admits to stanford or one of its very few peer schools.<br>
unless you write another school’s name in the “why stanford” essay and/or clearly indicate somehow that you have no intention of going there (which can be judged by an applicants writing sample that you would never have access to read), im pretty sure the admissions officers know that many, many students would do anything for a chance to go there, even if accepted at any other school in the planet. i even met a kid at AW who got into oxford (yes the one in england, kind of cooler than harvard or yale if you ask me) and chose stanford, not to mention many (most of the ones i met there) who are choosing stanford over harvard, yale, princeton, and mit. so yeah, they were very overqualified. some people think its very reasonable to call stanford the best school in the us, especially since it’s so good at so many things, but im sure they only want mildly brilliant kids and are leaving the real geniuses to harvard and yale…not :p</p>

<p>Yes–this thread is ridiculous and provocative. We may never know the underlying facts regarding the OP’s motivation in making his foolish ‘Tufts Syndrome’ charge. However, based on his posting history, we can speculate. Stanford’s admission process requires no defense or the OP’s respect.</p>

<p>Agree. Methinks someone was a little surprised to have gotten rejected from S.</p>

<p>Methinks the OP doth protest too much. Tufts Syndrome? Hah! Yield protection might be slightly important, but on a whole, I do believe that Stanford is…Stanford. No one is “over-qualified” for a school. It seems impractical and improbable that the Stanford adcoms said “Ah…this girl cured cancer and this boy started a Philanthropic organization reaching millions. They can’t possibly want to go to Stanford, we’re just their safety school.” Does anyone else seem perturbed by such thoughts?</p>

<p>^i know. after all, stanford alumni are such under achievers. forget technological advances and supreme court justices, those only want to go to harvard. they might get bored by all the mediocre kids at stanford who werent too overqualified to get in :p</p>

<p>matrixdad got scared…hes not coming back</p>

<p>^^^whatever…sour grapes is right</p>

<p>D accepted Stanford over H, among others. So there.</p>

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<p>No they are not. It is time once again to post my FAQ on voluntary response surveys: </p>

<p>VOLUNTARY RESPONSE POLLS </p>

<p>One professor of statistics, who is a co-author of a highly regarded AP statistics textbook, has tried to popularize the phrase that “voluntary response data are worthless” to go along with the phrase “correlation does not imply causation.” Other statistics teachers are gradually picking up this phrase.</p>

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<p>[Math</a> Forum Discussions](<a href=“http://mathforum.org/kb/thread.jspa?threadID=194473&tstart=36420]Math”>http://mathforum.org/kb/thread.jspa?threadID=194473&tstart=36420)</p>

<p>I am surprised to see more attacking than rational debating. For past decades, Stanford did a great job in many areas. It likes a shining rainbow on the west coast. I have no problem the accept these. I agree that using “Tufts Syndrome” is too strong and not accurate. </p>

<p>The key issue here is that did (or did not) Stanford play the yield protection game? To my belief it did based on three observations:
1) After HP eliminated the early program. Almost all the elite colleges (keeping early program) saw significant increase in their early applicant pools except Stanford.
2) From the accepted/rejected list, Stanford’s process is much more “random”.
3) Stanford’s yield hit record high while others hold steady.
The resource did not show good improvement, but through more “random” process to achieve improved yield. Based on these facts, I believe they played yield protection game.</p>

<p>From all the posts in opposite side, I can not see any convincing defense. Their theories are mainly based on:

  1. Stanford is Stanford. This argument has no value.
  2. Stanford has great achievement in last two decades. How can they play yield protection game? Yes, Stanford did great in last decades. But the question is did they play yield game or not. If they rejected the applicant they do not believe he/she will attend Stanford. What the net effects?
  3. Stanford focused less on number.<br>
  4. The people posted on the accepted/rejected list only represent a small group of applicants. It does not reflect the whole population. Yes, I agree. Compare this group people with the whole Stanford applicant pool. These samples have bias. But, if we compare this group with the people posted on HY. These kinds of bias have been knocked off.</p>

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<p>Not necessarily. They are still all voluntary response samples.</p>

<p>Some very talented students, who win public awards that list the colleges they are interested in (like Intel/STS), may be rejected by HYPMS for “yield” reasons…or…because they want to reserve the precious spots in their entering class for students who really want to go to their school. </p>

<p>I remember a parent saying “If Harvard rejected him, who are they looking for?” Well, the “him” in this situation was an Intel/STS finalist, national grand prize winner in a humanities contest, straight A student, great EC’s , great test scores etc – but the PR pieces put out by a number of his awards stated that he wanted to go to Stanford or Cal Tech. Two ivies rejected him. Similar student.. with similar stats including a Davidson fellowship…stated he wanted to go to Harvard or Yale. He was rejected at Stanford.</p>

<p>Perhaps at some point, the OP’s daughter, who has outside scholarships based on his posts on other threads, indicated somewhere that Stanford may not be her first choice…</p>

<p>Universities that play the “yield protection game” believe that the brightest and the best students they have accepted will not choose to go there, and therefore these universities accept less “qualified” students who are more likely to accept their offers. This would occur if and only if these universities have a reason for believing that they are inferior in the “prestige” scale. </p>

<p>Seen in this light, there is no reason for Stanford to play the yield protection game. In fact, Stanford even offers what Harvard or MIT can’t: kickass humanities, kickass tech/engineering, and kickass athletics. Also, the fact that the admissions/housing offices are going crazy right now because “too many” have accepted shows that they didn’t plan for the yield to go up in the first place.</p>