Stanford v. Harvard !?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Harvard University
41

<p>J-T world university rankings, which are similar but counts Nobel Prizes, also ranks Harvard ahead overall:</p>

<ol>
<li>Harvard</li>
<li>Stanford</li>
<li>Berkeley</li>
<li>MIT</li>
<li>Caltech</li>
<li>Columbia</li>
<li>Princeton</li>
<li>Chicago</li>
<li>Yale</li>
<li>Cornell</li>
<li>Penn</li>
<li>Johns Hopkins</li>
</ol>

<p>Field by field breakdowns are as follows:
1. Physical Sciences and Mathematics
Harvard Univ
Univ California - Berkeley
Princeton Univ
Univ Cambridge
California Inst Tech
Massachusetts Inst Tech (MIT)
Stanford Univ
Tokyo Univ
Univ California - Los Angeles
Univ Oxford</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Engineering/Computer Science
Massachusetts Inst Tech (MIT)
Stanford Univ
Univ Illinois - Urbana Champaign
Univ Michigan - Ann Arbor
Univ California - Berkeley
Pennsylvania State Univ - Univ Park
Georgia Inst Tech
Univ Texas - Austin
Univ California - San Diego</p></li>
<li><p>Life Sciences
Harvard Univ
Massachusetts Inst Tech (MIT)
Univ California - San Francisco
Univ Washington - Seattle
Stanford Univ
Univ Texas Southwestern Med Center
Columbia Univ
Univ Wisconsin - Madison
Rockefeller Univ</p></li>
<li><p>Clinical Medicine
Harvard Univ
Univ California - San Francisco
Univ Washington - Seattle
Johns Hopkins Univ
Columbia Univ
Univ California - Los Angeles
Univ Texas Southwestern Med Center
Univ Michigan - Ann Arbor
Karolinska Inst Stockholm</p></li>
<li><p>Social Sciences
Harvard Univ USA
Univ Chicago USA
Stanford Univ USA
Columbia Univ USA
Univ California - Berkeley USA
Massachusetts Inst Tech (MIT) USA
Princeton Univ USA
Univ Pennsylvania USA
Yale Univ USA</p></li>
</ol>

<p>As I noted above, the only field in which Stanford leads Harvard is in engineering. Remember, these rankings are based on objective criteria only. </p>

<p>Here's another ranking, not counting alums, not counting faculty who won the Nobel Prize before coming to institution or after leaving institution</p>

<p>Nobel Prizes won while faculty member
<a href="http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/lists/universities.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/lists/universities.html&lt;/a>
Harvard 34
Stanford 18
Caltech 17
MIT 17
U. Cambridge 16</p>

42

<p>And the London Times rankings, in which 40% is based on surveys of academics (probably just as clueless as those who were surveyed by the U.S. News.)</p>

<ol>
<li>Harvard</li>
<li>Yale</li>
<li>Princeton</li>
<li>Caltech</li>
<li>MIT</li>
<li>Columbia</li>
<li>Duke</li>
<li>Penn</li>
<li>Johns Hopkins</li>
<li>Stanford</li>
<li>Cornell</li>
<li>Berkeley</li>
</ol>

43

<p>The London Times rankings also had breakdowns into different fields. Harvard topped the list in the humanities (Stanford was #11), social sciences (Stanford was #5), and life sciences and medicine (Stanford was #6). </p>

<p>For natural sciences, they ranked Berkeley #1, followed by MIT, Cambridge, and Harvard at #4. Stanford was further behind at #7.</p>

<p>The only field in which Stanford came ahead was in technology, in which it was #3 and Harvard #15. </p>

<p>These rankings reinforce what I've told you: Stanford is pretty far behind Harvard in the arts and humanities, behind Harvard in social sciences and biological and physical sciences. The only field in which Stanford outranks Harvard is engineering. </p>

<p>Now, please make peace with the reality.</p>

44

<p>Holy mother of blog</p>

<p>That was a wholly excessive but completely all-encompassing rebuttal. Good work sir, good work.</p>

45

<p>Wow ske, as a prospective future Harvard student (class of 2012), I am impressed.</p>

46

<p>if you wanna 'have fun' and still study, I recommend stanford. better social scene, then harvard. but that's just what I've heard, it's not like I'm a student at either schools.</p>

<p>then again, you can't really make a wrong decision, huh?</p>

47

<p>It makes me proud to know people like ske hold it down against the stanford fronters. Great work.</p>

<p>
[quote]
if you wanna 'have fun' and still study, I recommend stanford. better social scene, then harvard.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's usually because as an ivy harvard doesnt give athletic scholarships so the athletic program at stanford is stronger...that and people in SoCal are just...out there (in more ways than one).</p>

48

<p>Um, dude, Stanford isn't in SoCal?</p>

<p>Every heard of a little place called Silicon Valley?</p>

<p>;)</p>

49

<p>It's all west coast to me...southern area of NorCal = SoNorCal? Regardless, SoCal (as well as NorCal) people ARE out there....</p>

<p>At any rate, that should show you how little interest I had in applying there.</p>

<p>;)</p>

50

<p>All these stats don't address the undergrad experience at the schools.
A few years ago, the Crimson published a 2 part article on the undergraduate malaise at Harvard. It starts: </p>

<p>"When the elevator in William James Hall shuts, those on the inside are privy to a telling phrase, etched in the door’s metal frame by an angst-ridden student: “Harvard Sucks.” Beneath that, a retort: “No, it doesn’t.”</p>

<p>The former expression has become an anthem for Mawuena M. Agbonyitor ’04, a social anthropology concentrator in Mather House. Sitting on her bed to avoid the work building on her desk, she listlessly flips through TV channels. “Cold, gray and tired”—these are the words that describe her day-to-day Harvard malaise. “I honestly don’t know anyone who likes it here,” she says. “Everyone is waiting to get out.” </p>

<p>According to Anna Franekova ’05, the weight of this malaise crushes the liveliness of her peers. “I met up with a Harvard friend in Prague and it’s incredible how different she was in a different environment,” she says. “There are too many people who are happier on the outside.”</p>

<p>If this malaise is as general as Agbonyitor and Franekova suggest, why don’t more Harvard students jump ship? Chris Cowan, a former member of the Class of 2005 who transferred to Stanford, asserts that Harvard’s social mores override student dissatisfaction. “Even with all my complaints, Harvard was a hard place to walk away from,” he writes in an e-mail message. “The culture there is either you love it or you’ll suck it up because the name is worth it. Most people, even those that are unhappy, wouldn’t leave.”</p>

<p>read the rest at:
The</a> Harvard Crimson :: Magazine :: The Cult of Yale
The</a> Harvard Crimson :: Magazine :: The Cult of Yale, Part II</p>

51

<p>Your numbers are interesting and very impressive. Clearly you have lots of legitimate reasons to say Harvard is #1 in the world. I have no objection to that. But I will have many reasons to say Stanford is about equal in terms of quality, especially if we use the metrics taken from recent years. When you try to compare Harvard with Stanford, don't forget that Harvard is much bigger than Stanford, much older than Stanford, and that Stanford rose to a world class instutution only about 30 years ago. So if you look at absolute numbers over the entire history, Harvard wins hands down. No argument there. But what if we focus on the most recent 30-40 years or look at the numbers at per capita basis, can Harvard still win? </p>

<p>For example, ask yourself how many Harvard professors have won Nobel prizes in last 30 years, and how many have won the USA National medal of sciences, can Harvard still beat Stanford? </p>

<p>What if you look at the current staff, try to find how many living Nobel prize winners are still in Harvard and how many are still in Stanford? Can Harvard still win? </p>

<p>Harvard and Stanford are about equal in business school. Stanford MBA program is harder to get in and on average Stanford MBA graduates earn higher starting salary than Harvard's. Stanford's business school ph.d. program has a beautiful placement record, at least as good as Harvard's. Stanford has its fair share of CEOs in big companies. Percentage wise, Stanford doesn't lose to Harvard in this metric, even though in total, Harvard has created more CEOs than Stanford. That is because Harvard has graduated much more MBAs than Stanford (twice more?). </p>

<p>Other questions for you, which university is the driving force in nurturing modern technlogies at the milestone level, and makes our life better? Which university contributes more to Laser, Radar, transistor, GPS, internet, gene cloning, driverless car, robot arms, and satelite TV? Why does the world's high tech center is in Silicon Valley, not along route 128 where Harvard and MIT reside? Think about that.</p>

52

<p>Having studied at both Harvard and Stanford, I would say that the big difference is that Harvard is more "famous" (#1 now and probably forever) and Stanford is more "fun". As to quality, I doubt there is much of a difference. And though Stanford may be more fun, Harvard students have fun too. Based on cross admit statistics, you will probably go to Harvard if you have the choice.</p>

53

<p>Congratulations for having those choices. Some years ago, I had to make the same choice, eventually had a chance to attend both schools (one for undergrad, one for grad), and had a great time at both. I've also had several close relatives study at both places. Academically, particularly for the fields you mentioned, there is no difference -- despite the immature "mine is bigger than yours" ****ing contest going on here.</p>

<p>Harvard is slightly more prestigious within the general population -- but the students are unhappier on the whole, and there are more self-centered "prestige-whores" there. Stanford as an institution is more forward-thinking and strong across all disciplines, and probably on more of an upward trajectory -- but there are more "fun in the sun" types there.</p>

<p>FWIW if I had to choose with what I know now, I would choose Stanford.</p>

54

<p>u guys are ridiculous
hope u join me at stanford :D</p>

55

<p>Yet again people keep posting the same out-dated article by the Crimson. Are you willingly ignoring the later rebuttal published by the same daily, and the huge overhaul of undergraduate life that has occurred since then, or are you just not putting two and two together?</p>

56

<p>Not willingly ingnoring a later rebuttal. Just can't find it! Can you locate it and link to it, h-bomber? I am not trying to be confrontational, and I'm not a partisan for any school. I'm just trying to help my son with his decision, and that article in the Crimson does give one pause.</p>

57

<p>I can't believe this thread has deteriorated into comparing the relative strengths of two of the US' finest universities, one of which is one of its oldest (and is therefore out of the chute in a higher weight class) and the other of which is without a doubt the most improved in the shortest amount of time.</p>

<p>The fact is the milieus of the schools are entirely different. One more urban, more suburban. One more intense on the face of things, one happier. One marginally more prestigious, the other less so but still in the uppermost echelon.</p>

<p>Visit the campuses and decide what you like best.</p>

<p>Don't turn this into an East Coast vs. West Coast ****ing match. HYP were founded in what, the 1600s? Stanford and Berkeley for that matter were founded in the latter half of the 1800s and in that short time have displaced or come alongside HYP at the uppermost echelons of a lot of different fields and rate much more highly in still other fields.</p>

<p>Now having said all that, I'd go to Harvard 'cause I like its style better.</p>

58

<p><a href="http://www.thecrimson.com/browse_by_issue.aspx?issueDate=11/17/2005%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.thecrimson.com/browse_by_issue.aspx?issueDate=11/17/2005&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Under the Magazine section of browse by issue, the Top 15 reasons why we love Harvard</p>

<p>None of them are exceptionally well written, but they were put forth at the beginning of the 2005-2006 school year and served as a harbinger of the upcoming overhaul of undergraduate education and the end of the "Should we have gone to Yale" era.</p>

59

<p>


</p>

<p>ROFL ske293, you're trying too hard. Grow up.</p>

<p>The academic supernovas of American higher education are Stanford, Berkeley and Harvard. Only these three are consistently top 5 in every single area of academic inquiry. B doesn't offer medicine, H is not a factor in engineering. Otherwise, these three are tops overall.</p>

<p>Harvard gets immense benefit from the fact it's almost 400 years old, and has been closely tied to the American Establishment for those 400 years. </p>

<p>Stanford is pound for pound (i.e., adjusted for it's size which is 14K students vs Harvards 22K students) a better institution. Stanford actually has MORE grads on the US Supreme Court; adjusted for size, Stanford's bschool has more CEOs in Fortune 500 firms, PE/VC firms and top nonprofits than HBS. And Stanford Medicine produces far far more in research $$$ per capita than Harvard. </p>

<p>And - IMHO - the schools driving the technology and policy trends influencing the direction of the US and the world are not the Ivies. It's UChicago [espc re Federal policies], it's Stanford, it's the better UC campuses, and maybe Harvard/Columbia/Penn.</p>

<p>H jealously and zealously guards its image and prominence. People hugely underestimate the magnitude of resources H devotes to cultivating its brand and marketing itself. Stanford is as aggressive, and they have a better product. </p>

<p>Finally, check this study done by professors at Johns Hopkins. It's titled the "Rise of American Research Universities" and is based on National Research Council data. Adjusted for size and factoring out reputational (i.e., lagging opinions) surveys, the ranking for humanities + social sciences + natural sciences was:</p>

<p>Stanford
Princeton
Chicago/Yale/Harvard
Columbia
Penn/Duke</p>

60

<p>
[quote]
he academic supernovas of American higher education are Stanford, Berkeley and Harvard. Only these three are consistently top 5 in every single area of academic inquiry. B doesn't offer medicine, H is not a factor in engineering. Otherwise, these three are tops overall.</p>

<p>Harvard gets immense benefit from the fact it's almost 400 years old, and has been closely tied to the American Establishment for those 400 years.</p>

<p>Stanford is pound for pound (i.e., adjusted for it's size which is 14K students vs Harvards 22K students) a better institution.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is actually all quite true. I still would choose Harvard -- and I think this is a style question for the OP, not a substance question with two such great universities as possibilities. However, even though I am not a particular fan of Stanford, you have to give it its kudos here.</p>

<p>Well, Berkeley kinda does offer medicine: UCSF. Historically, UCSF and Berkeley are very tied, have joint degrees, joint research, joint professorships. If Cornell med is part of Cornell, UCSF is part of Berkeley, the only top UC that doesn't have an eponymous med school because having UCSF it doesn't need one. And UCSF outranks perennially Stanford, University of Washington, and UCLA med schools. In fact, UCSF in a sense started the biotech industry when a professor developed gene splicing and spun out Genentech.</p>

<p>But all this is irrelevant to the OP: visit the schools. Figure out which one you think feels right and go there. Me? I vote Harvard.</p>