<p>McGill is the "Harvard of the North" and Michigan fights it out with Stanford and Pomona for the "Harvard of the West" title.</p>
<p>(These days, actually, it is politically incorrect to call yourself the "Harvard of the West" or whatever. Rather, the t-shirts usually say "Harvard: the XXX of the East/North/South")</p>
<p>Michigan? West? I thought it was one of the middle Canadian provinces.</p>
<p>"Hail to the victors valiant
Hail to the conquoring heroes
Hail, hail to Mich-i-gan ...
The champions of ... the WEST!"</p>
<p>I'd definitely choose Stanford over Duke
try posting this thread in the Stanford board and see what others say :)</p>
<p>Veera, care to give an explanation for that?</p>
<p>Stanford is harder to get into, that's true... but that seems a bad reason to go.</p>
<p>To supplement:</p>
<p>I mean, it's one thing to allege we're not quite up there with the big boys yet.</p>
<p>But Stanford??</p>
<p>Why the surprise? </p>
<p>Stanford's engineering program is second only to MIT. </p>
<p>In every other category of hard and soft sciences, econ, business, law, medicine or liberal arts they are equal to or 1 place off Harvard, Princeton and Yale.</p>
<p>Duke, while a very excellent school, is no match for Stanford.</p>
<p>My assumption is that you are using the grad school rankings, since my understanding is that undergrad rankings do not exist by department.</p>
<p>In that case, it's a very different decision.</p>
<p>In the end, the choice is a tough one. Looking back at the college process, if I face a choice between HPY and Duke, I would seriously consider Duke over those three given my experience this past year. Stanford and Duke seem to be of a different breed than HPY - both offer great college experiences as a whole (outstanding academics, great athletics, fun social atmosphere, excellent job opportunities after graduation, and beautiful campuses - social life and athletics don't seem to be as present at HPY). I feel that at either college, you're going to have very similar experiences. I would take the time visit both campuses and choose the one that feels the most right to you.</p>
<p>Since profs at Stanford teach UG as well as Grad courses, I don't think it's a very big leap to draw UG conclusions from Grad data. </p>
<p>However, if you know of a better methodology, let me know what it is.</p>
<p>Again, Duke is a wonderful school, but there's a reason why most people go with the nomenclature "HYPS" when discussing the Best of the Best.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, I don't know of a better methodology.</p>
<p>The problem is that grad school is very research-oriented, while research really benefits undergrads very little. Great profs are generally those who pull in a large sum of money from the various foundations (i.e. NIH) and can pass it on to grad students to do exciting work. Second, at most top-tier schools (Duke is an exception and Stanford might be too), the same profs actually DON'T teach both undergrads and grad students. At Duke they do, but at a place like Harvard you're (relative to Duke) more likely to get a grad student or something.</p>
<p>Very little correlation with how good they are for undergrad. I'm sure Stanford also has a great undergrad program - but there's a reason for the US News rankings, too.</p>
<p>PS: I think most people think Stanford's better because it's harder to get into. If you consider that Duke is easier to get into but USN actually puts us on par with them, then there must be something we do better...</p>
<p>mike, many people would argue that rankings are meaningless, and shouldn't be an indicator of how good a school is.</p>
<p>Right - obviously they're not the be-all and end-all. But to consider them meaningless is a bit much, too.</p>
<p>The reason people go with the nomenclature of "HYPS" is because all four are older and more established; Duke is an up and coming institution, which can be a big positive (the school is always trying to improve itself). I dont think that everyone does not include Duke in the abbreviation because it is not as good as a school as those four. And I think an education at Duke will provide for more of a complete undergraduate experience than at Stanford. I'd go with Duke, but that's my bias :)</p>
<p>I mean, I think the big thing about Stanford is that it's harder to get into. In that sense, "Wow, you got into Stanford" should indeed open more eyes than "Wow, you got into Duke." That's certainly without question.</p>
<p>I'm just saying that that's not a sufficient reason to pick a school.</p>
<p>bluedevilmike,</p>
<p>Actually, at WashU, Northwestern and Stanford, the profs that teach grads teach undergrads also. Maybe there are more schools like that than you think.</p>
<p>Of course there's some overlap. I have no idea whether Stanford is good on this front or not (having full profs teaching undergrads), only that some schools aren't, and Duke is.</p>
<p>I should also mention that my second point was that profs who are good for grad students/research might or might not be good for undergrad teaching.</p>
<p>Hey, question - and I know I've now posted three times in a row.</p>
<p>Sam and joe - do you happen to be from the west coast?</p>
<p>If you are interested in econ, working on the street, or in consulting, Duke is a better choice. First, the offerings are stronger. Dukes econ department offers a really fine series of courses in corporate finance, investments, financial engineering, and accounting. There is a separate business certificate program that offers basic courses in marketing, strategy, and business government relations. Combined, one can get the core of a undergrad business degree without giving up a liberal arts education. Stanford does not have any depth in these offerings. Second, Duke's geography is a huge plus. Being in the east with easy access to NY is a big deal for recruiters and job seekers. IF you want to work in the east, Duke is a better name. Duke is better known on the street and has a much larger alum network. If you want to work in CA, well Stanford is probably better.</p>