State School to Ivy MBA question

College Search & Selection
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<p>alexandre – Since I estimate the Top 20% student at an Ivy League or other Top 20 school will be equivalently accomplished (at admissions time) to a top 2-3% student at Minnesota or Wisconsin, Sakky would have to normalize for this.</p>

<p>That would be, as Sakky mentions, a lot of work!</p>

<p>We forget when asking questions about whether School A gives us a better chance at Opportunity X than School B, we need to find a way to sync up the accomplishments of students at School A vs. School B. My simi-educated opinion is that twins who split after high school into Prestigious University and Flagship Public will encounter equivalent opportunities for graduate school or employment, assuing the twin who attended the Public Flagship show initiative in making allies out of Professors and university Administrators who can help direct him/her to research and internships.</p>

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<p>OP –</p>

<p>Were I in your position, I would complete the last two years of college at Wisconsin or UM (depending on major… UM for ChemE, Wisconsin for most majors). </p>

<p>Per my post above, it is IMPERATIVE that you spend considerable energy finding Professors who will mentor you into internships or research that will position you for the scarce interviews into prestigious employment. If this means you take another three years instead of two to graduate, then so be it.</p>

<p>In any case, I agree that the prestige of your undergrad institution matters less than the mentoring you receive wherever you go. </p>

<p>I would estimate that about 20% of the class at a top business school would hail from a Top 75 Public Research University, about 20% from a top 20 USNWR ranked private university, about 10% from a Top 20 ranked Liberal Arts College, with the balance scattered all over the map. UCLA’s latest MBA class of about 340 hailed from 180 different undergrad institutions.</p>

<p>I also agree with the above posters who say the B-School adcoms are mostly interested in:</p>

<p>1) how test-smart you are (combination of GMAT and undergrad coursework, the more quantitative, the better).
2) proven results in corporate positions, as measured by some quantitative result, or by rapid advancement in postions and responsibility.</p>

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<p>Ok, here’s some data for both MBA Classes 2010 and 2011 at Harvard.</p>

<p>Note, I’m not going to bother to cull each data point, so surely some of the below figures include some students who went to the corresponding schools only for grad school (i.e. MA/MS), as exchange students, transferred from one school to another, or other assorted affiliations. What that also means is that some students may be counted multiple times (i.e. somebody who went to undergrad at one school, transferred to another, MA at still another, etc.) There may also be some HBS cross-registrants in the below data (i.e. grad students from other Harvard grad schools or MIT who cross-register into courses at HBS). </p>

<p>Michigan (Ann Arbor) - 41
UCBerkeley - 44
Virginia - 45
UIUC - 12
Wisconsin (Madison) - 10
UCLA - 10
Texas (Austin) - 18</p>

<p>Chicago - 13
Duke-45
Johns Hopkins - 9
Northwestern - 33</p>

<p>Harvard - more than 100 (silly database won’t tell me exactly how many, but I would guess around 150-175)
Yale - 59
Stanford - 99
Princeton - 80</p>

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<p>sakky, is there somewhere where one could find the # of alumni at a given B-school, or is this Harvard only?</p>

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<p>sakky, </p>

<p>as I recall HBS has about 800 per class, or about 1600 for both years, correct? And per your note, about 175 are from six Public Research Universities = about 12%. </p>

<p>Assuming there are also students at HBS from UNC, Ohio St, Florida, Rutgers, UCs San Diego, Santa Barbara, Irvine, and Davis, UDub, Georgia Tech, Maryland, William and Mary, and maybe a couple more USNWR Top 75 I’m missing, I’m concluding that top business schools do in fact take at least 15% and possibly 20% from the USNWR top 75 that are Public Research Universities.</p>

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<p>Oh, another point I meant to mention –</p>

<p>The # of students at HBS as a ratio of student body size at the feeding undergraduate University is ranked just about exactly as the USNWR ranking is found:</p>

<ol>
<li>Harvard 100+ / 6700 (assuming it really is 125+ as you suggest)</li>
<li>Princeton: 80/5000 &</li>
<li>Stanford: 99/6500</li>
<li>Yale: 59/5300</li>
</ol>

<p>by comparison, </p>

<p>Northwestern: 33/8500
Berkeley: 44/24,000</p>

<p>etc.</p>

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<p>Dunnin,</p>

<p>More like:</p>

<p>Berkeley: 44/25,000</p>

<p>JCLA: 10/27,000</p>

<p>;)</p>

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<p>UCBCHemEGrad – that last 1000 isn’t going to graduate anyway :)</p>

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<p>Josh66 wrote: "Well you have to remember that all work experience is not equal. Many of people at HBS/Wharton and other top MBA’s have worked at top firms such as Goldman-Sachs, Jp Morgan, Lazard, Mckinsey, Bain etc. "</p>

<p>I wish the english language or any language did not allow for such imprecise description of percentage figures. If one were required, when speaking of comparative numbers, to use % only, we would find less generalistic, inactionable statements like that… Nothing person Josh66… that sort of vague speaking is pervasive in english.</p>

<p>It would indeed be helpful to know what % of incoming students at Wharton, HBS, Stanford, Chicago, etc. come out of one of the jobs you mention. My experience, without any data to back that up, is less than 35%… probably about 25%. That leaves the majority of the incoming class that worked somewhere more pedestrian… speaking in terms of my own town, LA, companies like Amgen, Disney, Unocal, Wells Fargo Bank, any random internet startup, any random real estate developer, Jabobs Engineering, Avery Dennison, etc.</p>

<p>If anyone has specific numbers on the I-Bank & top tier consulting firm % of the entering class at B-school, I would be interested to know that.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>This is Harvard only. </p>

<p>But perhaps other people here have access to the databases of other schools. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I take that back. The number seems to be close to 200 (still can’t see the exact number, darn it).</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>58% of incoming HBS MBA students reported coming from consulting, Ibanking, investment management, VC/PE, or other financial services backgrounds.</p>

<p>[Class</a> Profiles - MBA - Harvard Business School](<a href=“http://www.hbs.edu/mba/profiles/classprofile.html]Class”>Class Profile - MBA - Harvard Business School)</p>

<p>At Stanford GSB, the figure is 59%.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/about/facts.html[/url]”>http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/about/facts.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Wharton 55%</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.wharton.upenn.edu/mba/student-life/class-profile.cfm[/url]”>http://www.wharton.upenn.edu/mba/student-life/class-profile.cfm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Chicago 52% (click on ‘Industry’)</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.chicagobooth.edu/fulltime/community/stats.aspx[/url]”>http://www.chicagobooth.edu/fulltime/community/stats.aspx&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Granted, surely not all of them were working for top-tier firms in those industries. Yet it should also be understood that some students from the ‘regular’ industries came from elite firms within those industries. For example, I can think of quite a few Harvard MBA students who came from Google.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>HBS has recently been on an expansion tear. Class of 2010 has 900. The class of 2011 has 937.</p>

<p>[MBA</a> Program - Statistics - Harvard Business School](<a href=“http://www.hbs.edu/about/statistics/mba.html]MBA”>http://www.hbs.edu/about/statistics/mba.html)</p>

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<p>^^^ Goodness, that is a huge MBA class. More students = more money for Harvard.</p>

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<p>Thanks a heap for the data Sakky, I know it must have taken you some time. It would appear that state schools do in fact place students into top MBA programs. Cal, Michigan and UVa place as many students as Duke, Northwestern and Yale. Yes, Duke, Northwestern and Yale are significantly smaller, but then again, a significantly larger percentage of their students pursue MBAs in the first place. </p>

<p>At any rate, I know that Cal, Michigan and UVa, in addition to placing 20+ students each into HBS each year, also place roughly 15 students each into Wharton annually and another 15 into Columbia Business School annually. So altogether, each of the top three publics places 50+ students into the top 3 Ivy League MBA programs annually. </p>

<p>That does not include placement into other top MBA programs such as Cal (Haas), Chicago (Booth), Cornell (Johnson), Dartmouth (Tuck), Duke (Fuqua), MIT (Sloan), Michigan (Ross), NYU (Stern), Northwestern (Kellogg), Stanford Business School, UCLA (Anderson), UVa (Darden) and Yale School of Management. </p>

<p>I would estimate that each of those top three public universities places over 150 students into those top MBA programs annually. So the final tally, when you include HBS, Wharton and Columbia Business School, the top three publics place over 200 students into top 15 MBA programs annually. That’s is a significant number. </p>

<p>Other elite publics, such as Texas-Austin, UCLA, UNC and Wisconsin-Madison also place many of their students into top MBA programs.</p>

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<p>Schools like Haas, Chicago, Kellogg, Stern, etc have part-time program, so they’re big graduate business schools as well.</p>

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<p>I’d be interested in seeing the data for these schools for students coming out of Southern flagships.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>For Harvard Business School current classes (Class of 2010 +2011)</p>

<p>UT-Austin & Virginia: were stated previously
Kentucky: 1
Florida (Gainesville):6
Georgia (Athens):6
Alabama (Tuscaloosa): 1
Mississippi (Oxford): 1
North Carolina: 14
Arkansas:1
Texas A&M:5
Texas Tech:1
University of Houston (Houston): 2
University of Houston (University Park): 1 (Note, not sure what the difference is between that and the former entry)
University of Missouri at Columbia: 1
University of Missouri at St. Louis: 1 (Note, this person never graduated from but is merely affiliated with this school, his bachelor’s is from Stanford).<br>
Louisville:1
Florida State:2
Virginia Tech: 3
Central Florida:1
Clemson:1
Georgia Tech:22
Oklahoma:5
Oklahoma State:1
LSU (Baton Rouge):1 (Note, this person is only affiliated with LSU, bachelor’s is from the University of Colorado)
NCState:4
George Mason:2</p>

<p>Note: can’t find any entries for South Carolina, Tennessee, South Florida, Mississippi State, Louisiana Tech, Auburn.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>No need to assume anything:</p>

<p>UNC, Florida, Georgia Tech: mentioned above</p>

<p>Washington: 7
Washington (Seattle): 5 (Note, not sure how this entry differs from the previous one)
Maryland (College Park): 10
Maryland (University College in Germany): 1 (note, this person received master’s degree from this school, bachelor’s was from West Point)
UCSD:3
UCIrvine:4
UCRiverside: 1 (affiliation only, bachelor’s was from NYU)
UCDavis:2
UCSB: 2
Rutgers (New Brunswick): 7
The Ohio State University:3</p>

<p>Note, no entries for UCSC. Also, oddly, can’t find entries for William&Mary. </p>

<p>Again, note, some of the above listings are surely for people who never actually obtained bachelor’s degrees from those schools, but enjoy some other affiliation with the school (i.e. matriculated there but transferred to another school, earned grad degree there, studied there on exchange program, etc.). If only one entry if found, the person’s biography is immediately accessed and I can immediately detect whether that has occurred, but if more than one entry is discovered, then I would have to click on each entry to find out, and I’m too lazy to do that. Hence, all of the above figures excluding the singlet figures are surely inflated.</p>

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<p>Since somebody is surely going to ask anyway:</p>

<p>Cornell:45
Columbia:35 (+1 at Barnard)
Dartmouth:32
UPenn:87
Brown:38
CalTech:2
MIT: database seems to return a strange error; I’ll check back later
Vanderbilt:12
Rice:10
WUSTL:13
Emory:12
Georgetown:31
Williams:9
Amherst:8
Swarthmore:6
Wellesley:17
Harvey Mudd: 1 (affiliation only, bachelor’s was from Columbia)
Pomona:5
Oberlin:4
Claremont McKenna:4
USC:12</p>

<p>Oxford (Oxford, England): 52
Cambridge (Cambridge, England):35
London School of Economics: 64</p>

<p>No entries for Reed or Kenyon.</p>

<p>Note, of the 3 British schools, surely many of those entries are regarding students at US colleges on exchange programs, and/or are Rhodes/Marshall Scholars. Casually poking around, I find that many of them did not actually obtain their bachelor’s from those UK schools, although I don’t feel like tallying an exact number.</p>

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<p>Interesting data. This is really useful for people who want a state school but find themselves in the dilemma of in-state flagship vs. UMich/UVA/UNC/UCs, etc.</p>