<p>In the top acting programs, the ratio of auditioners to accepted students is extremely discouraging. But I am guessing that about 75% of auditioners are girls. So if (for example) Carnegie-Mellon really auditions 1000 students for 20 places, and 750 of them are girls competing for 10 places, with 250 boys competing for 10 places... that doesn't sound quite so bad, right?</p>
<p>I'd love to hear other people's guesstimates about male/female ratios.</p>
<p>Also, how about guesstimates about tenor vs. baritone in Musical Theatre? My son is interested in both, and is a baritone.</p>
<p>I don’t have any guesstimates, but not all programs admit the exact same number of girls and boys.</p>
<p>Yes, for example CMU admits more boys… so that’s in your favor, prodesse.</p>
<p>Yes, if you play the numbers game, there is an advantage to being male. If you are male you will have fewer people that you are competing with. But you still have to give an audition that is good enough to beat those people, whether you are male or female. It isn’t a random lottery.</p>
<p>My son’s first audition was at UArts (where he matriculated). There were 4 times as many girls auditioning for the acting BFA (roughly 16 girls, and 4 boys, out of 20 in the group). Half were called back (ie. eight girls, and two boys). He says that the male-female ratio in his freshman class is surprisingly high, and so the numbers might not have been representative, or the ultimate acceptance and yield rates skewed heavily male. I have to presume that many girls who were called back were ultimately rejected, whereas most boys called back were accepted. He was surprised by how even the ratio was at his DePaul audition, and said that other schools he auditioned for fell somewhere in between. Boys might not audition for as many schools, assuming that they have a built-in advantage, leading to greater gender imbalance at auditions for second-tier programs. That was certainly my son’s experience: he only auditioned for six schools, with a non-audition safety and two liberal arts BA programs added to the mix.</p>
<p>Based on the class make-up (so to speak) at my D’s school, they do not try to balance the classes, and I think many schools don’t. Obviously they need some amount of both genders in the school in general so they can cast things, although there are some creative ways around that, but I think they figure with 4 years’ worth of students they’ll get what they need. Based on the 5 years’ worth of groups (including last year’s seniors) it seems that some years they get more of one gender or the other, so it evens out over time.</p>
<p>I think a school that doesn’t try for numbers might be harder on boys, since they won’t benefit from the need to take boys who are less able. I think the very most selective programs can afford to balance their genders because more people (boys and girls) are trying to get in. I’d guess since they see so many really talented students who are desperate to go there, that it’s still just plain hard to get in, period. </p>
<p>Basically it’s all hard. You can’t find any magic keyhole - any keyhole at all - in this process. The only safety is a non-auditioned program (BFA or BA) where you meet the academic stats for sure.</p>
<p>I never said straight out in my last post that what they do at my D’s program is take the kids they like, period. This also is apparent because they accept students throughout the year, directly after each audition. No school that has rolling auditioned acceptances can keep to exact numbers of male/female.</p>
<p>Good point, Emmybet, about rolling admissions. Prodesse, conventional wisdom is that it’s easier for talented boys to win spots in these programs than for talented girls. But it’s still quite a challenge. I don’t remember seeing your son’s list, but does he have any rolling audition schools or non-auditioned safeties? The season will feel less stressful if he has an acceptance he can rely on.</p>
<p>The current list includes: Carnegie-Mellon, Ithaca, Emerson, USC, UNCArts, VCU, James Madison, Shenandoah.</p>
<p>Frankly, his acting, singing, and resume are stronger than his grades, so non-auditioned safety schools are going to be hard to come by. But his test scores are good.</p>
<p>Is he applying for MT only, or for acting and MT? I don’t know about the last three on your list, but the others are super-competitive.</p>
<p>Is he looking at Syracuse as well? Not a difficult visit from Ithaca to check it out. At James Madison the HS academic record is taken into account along with the audition. However, a strong audition can help boost the academic admissions of a student who is within the academic admissions range. </p>
<p>Is he planning on auditioning Musical Theatre/ Theatre or both at James Madison? If he has any questions,I would be happy to put him in touch with current students and faculty. I also know students, slums, and faculty at Shenandoah and Syracuse.</p>
<p>Acting and MT both. Syracuse is a possibility but may be too dance oriented, from what I’ve read here.</p>
<p>What I am hoping to figure out is, how much less competive are these schools, for males?</p>
<p>lbligh, we understand. We’ve all been in your boat! The general wisdom is that all auditioned programs are competitive. Yes, there may be an edge at some places for males, but no one is going to tell you that at the programs themselves. Think of all auditioned programs at Ivy-league level selectivity - averaging about 15% acceptance rates, often less. And there are no firm reasons why anyone gets in or doesn’t. It’s really frustrating and scary, but that’s the truth. All he can do is prepare and do his best, and see what happens.</p>
<p>There are ways to get an idea of how the acceptance rates might work. First, here is a thread on non-auditioned BFAs. Many of them are at schools with not terribly selective academic standards; a decent B student with OK scores can often get in:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/theater-drama-majors/1177128-non-audition-bfas.html?highlight=non+audition+bfa[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/theater-drama-majors/1177128-non-audition-bfas.html?highlight=non+audition+bfa</a></p>
<p>Here is a thread that lists anecdotally what people know about the size of freshman classes at a lot of auditioned programs. If you imagine that several hundred to over 1000 kids audition at each one, you can estimate the odds of getting in:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/theater-drama-majors/653553-size-freshman-acting-class.html?highlight=freshman+class+size[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/theater-drama-majors/653553-size-freshman-acting-class.html?highlight=freshman+class+size</a></p>
<p>We also have a thread that talks about auditioned schools which are slightly less selective, more in the 20-25% acceptance rate. They are good to add to your list, too:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/theater-drama-majors/1129891-auditioned-schools-slightly-higher-acceptance-rates.html?highlight=slightly+less+selective[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/theater-drama-majors/1129891-auditioned-schools-slightly-higher-acceptance-rates.html?highlight=slightly+less+selective</a></p>
<p>As you can see, these are concerns all of us have had as we’ve gone through the process, and all of us have tried to help our kids make lists that are reasonable and will help them have positive results in the spring. If your son has an open mind, about location in particular, he can have some safeties even if he’s determined to get a BFA. Of course, this is all in Acting. You’d have to ask over at MT for similar information regarding MT. Good luck, and keep asking questions!</p>
<p>lbligh/ prodesse – are you one and the same with two accounts? Or a parent account and a student account? or two different families with similar questions?</p>
<p>In terms of Syracuse, I believe that prospective students auditioning for Musical Theatre and indicate that they would also like to be considered for Acting. This is likely the case with other schools as well. </p>
<p>I am not sure it is truly possible to figure out how much more or less competitive it is for young men than young women at these schools. Musical/ Theatre admissions is subjective. Every year there are students who do not get accepted to “less competitive” programs and do get accepted to “more competitive” … individuals are not statistics. </p>
<p>Ultimately, the only close to “guaranteed” admit is at an academic/ financial safety that does not require an audition. I think you are in VA… unless things have changed I do not believe that Christopher Newport or George Mason require auditions. There are other VA schools that do not require an audition that also have strong theatre opportunities. University of RI offers a non-auditioned BFA, that is less academically competitive.</p>
<p>A safety school does not need to be the school you WILL attend if you are admitted to all of your schools… it just needs to be a school you WOULD attend if you are ONLY admitted to the safety. </p>
<p>The list of schools above: “Carnegie-Mellon, Ithaca, Emerson, USC, UNCArts, VCU, James Madison, Shenandoah” … does offer a range types of programs in terms of general academic and artistic selectivity… regional and national applicant pool… You may want to add one true safety, and consider adding another auditioned based program that is of interest.</p>
<p>I had the same question-- are lbligh and prodesse the same person? Consider Temple University in Philadelphia as a non-auditioned acting safety. They do have an auditioned MT program. I think you could apply as an acting major and also audition for MT. As a state school, their tuition will be lower, even for out-of-state students. And if your son has high scores, as you say, he will get an automatic tuition discount. Temple’s program is pretty good. That was my daughter’s non-auditioned safety last year and it remained high on her list through April, even with acceptances to auditioned programs and programs that were much more competitive academically.</p>
<p>Also-- Temple’s Esther Boyer School will have a great voice faculty so he can continue to study singing.</p>
<p>Sorry I temporarily suffered from Internet Multiple Personality Disorder. I was using my Kindle and did not realize it was logged in as a username I thought I had deleted.</p>
<p>Thanks for the suggestions, everybody.</p>
<p>lbligh/prodesse - It’s often difficult to know what parents and students on these threads mean when they say their scores and grades are good or bad. I know my son had poor grades (bad) at a respected private school (good), with respectable test scores, and one out-of-the-park Critical Reading result. If your son is in a similar range, I would suggest applying to some state schools (are you VA residents?) with rolling admissions; some will accept a student for the BA program as an option, even if the auditioned BFA is much more selective. In NJ, for instance, students can apply for up to three divisions of Rutgers for a single application fee. Mason Gross required an additional audition, and my son was not accepted, but he was accepted into the College of Arts & Sciences. I will presume that your son falls well within the range academically for the Virginia state colleges you mentioned. Temple is pretty competitive academically, and so you should check Naviance or another source to see whether your son aligns with their academic demands. They do not consider talent in admissions for prospective theater majors, unless they have changed policies recently. You might also consider Rider College. They are trying to upgrade their performing arts, and have introduced a musical theater program in association with the Westminster Choir School. They also offer a talent scholarship. DePaul does not have a Musical Theater major, but they stage musicals regularly. They are highly selective in terms of talent, but not as much academically. You could also check out Columbia College Chicago as a “safe” school, and CCPA/Roosevelt, if you visit Chicago. We were not particularly impressed with CCPA for Acting, but thought that it was very strong for music.</p>
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<p>Agree with much of what Stagemum writes, but one correction: Temple is not especially competitive academically. They accept over 60% of applications and their ACT average is 21-26. If your son scored well on standardized tests, as you say he did, he should get a merit scholarship. There are additional theater scholarships. The reason qualified students are rejected from Temple is that they have rolling admissions. My daughter sent her application in at the beginning of the season and received an immediate acceptance plus merit aid. I know well-qualified students who waited and were not accepted.</p>
<p>Thank you for correcting me, glassharmonica - I guess I accepted Temple’s own statistics when we visited. They indicated that the GPA average was somewhere around 3.5. I also inferred that it was more selective for out-of-state applicants. Maybe my son should have applied, after all.</p>