<p>I had a toxic high school counselor in my high school days, and was not part of a circle of family friends or classmates who knew anything about the world of highly selective universities. So, yes, I could have used more information than I had in my day. Today I read CC pretty actively (that's the way to get to the "senior member" post count) and for years beforehand I have attended college info sessions and read books about the college admission process. My children will get exactly and only ADVICE from me. No "packaging" of their applications (their applications are THEIR decision and their job) and no funding for paid experts on the college admission process. I think my children will fare well enough, when the time comes, by daring to be themselves and THINKING about what they expect to do in college. They get to choose where to apply, and they get to decide how to apply. I encourage them day by day to get good primary and secondary educations, not for college admission purposes, but just so that they can be well informed citizens. My perspective on this probably comes from my aunts and uncles, who mostly are farmers who ceased attending school after eighth grade. They have always been avid readers and interested in learning, and they show me that one doesn't need a college degree to have an active intellectual life.</p>
<p>Hi tokenadult, I can't agree with you more. I am a firm believer of a level playing field in the college application process. Needless to say there is legacy and other hurdles for most applicants from "ordinary" background. Nonetheless, it should be spelled out so everyone knows what the rules are. On that note, I think one should disclose whether consultant has been hired to "package" the application. Of course, it is up to the colleges to decide, and I hope some of them will require it next year.</p>
<p>jimbob -</p>
<p>I don't think people are necessarily against the use of an outside counselor to help navigate the admissions process and advise on suitable match schools -- it's when the counselor packages the student - in other words, the students achievements don't necessarily come from natural talent and drive, rather are "bought." It's one thing to go to Africa and help the poor through your church, let's say, because that is a natural extension of your involvement with your church and another thing if a high-priced counselor arranges such a trip for you and you take the credit for it being your initiative and you only do it because the counselor tells you it will impress the adcoms. One way shows initiative that will probably carry thru to the student's college life, the other does not indicate that the student will make any further contribution once they are in college.</p>
<p>My S went to a huge public school. He got in HYP and Williams. We did not hire any consulants and went to any SAT preps. I trully believe as long as you do your work seriously you can qualified and hopefully be admitted to highly selective colleges.</p>
<p>Ghengis, couldn't agree with you more. Its a question of full disclosure. If you've used outside help, admit it. If you hesitate to admit it, then its probably wrong practice to begin with.</p>
<p>Aint<em>No</em>Mountain, we are on the same page. I am not judging whether it is right or wrong to use a consultant and sometimes there is nothing with it depending how and what the consultants help to do. It is for the college admissions to decide. When one hires a taxpreparer to file tax return, it doesn't mean one is cheating on taxes or intend to cheat on taxes. However, it should be disclosed. Disclosure is the issue here.</p>
<p>hiring a private college consultant - isn't worth it in my opinion. I come from a rural town, one of few minorities and attend a public school and always have. I work hard in school and out and do lots of volunteer work - getting into a good college was MY dream and I did it alone and I am proud of myself. By the way, I got into Harvard, Dartmouth and Tufts and will be attending Harvard this fall. A friend of mine, hired a consultant to guide her through the entire college process - she was rejected from - Columbia, Tufts, and several others - so $30,000 later, she will be attending a local college.</p>
<p>I would be very curious to read Kaavya Viswanathan's Harvard app essay to see how original or internalized it was.</p>
<p>wtg doc t - congratulations :) VERY heartening to hear achievements such as yours!</p>
<p>hehe ghengis... lots of skeletons to pull out of that girls' closets, i'm sure. i bet her high school teachers are scrambling to dig out her papers and re-review them as well.
i can already see a book deal in the works - How Opal Mehta Internalized, Plagarized, and Pulled the Wool Over Our Eyes.</p>
<p>When I was applying to colleges I didn't even know that some people did this. It disgusts me a little, honestly, to see the lengths that people will go to to get into the college of their dreams. I wouldn't want to get into a college, any college, if the person they were accepting based on the application was "packaged," and wasn't really me. What bothers me is that this could become an accepted practice and another way for pushy parents to try and turn their kids into something they really are not. </p>
<p>As for SAT prep courses, my school offers one to a lot of the seniors and I took it, but it only improved my score by 10 points over the PSAT. But I tend to view getting help with the format of standardized tests and time management as completely different from getting help deciding what to do with your life and how to represent yourself on an application.</p>
<p>amen.
and in an ideal world the universities/colleges will feel the same way, skittles. btw, were you able to get into the colleges you applied for? was harvard - or another ivy league - one of em?</p>
<p>Has any director of admissions or adcom come out in public about this practice of packaging? Like in an editorial, or on the website or something? I, like most of you, suspect that they don't like it, but what's the proof? There's only a small segment of the market doing this, but the top schools are the ones seeing it over and over again. So how does an outfit like IvyWise jockey their applicants around so that their "stable" of candidates all get what they pay for? I'd assume they're all going for HYPS in some type of formulaic dance. What pressure...do they have the gall to take someone's good money and earn their child access to colleges of lesser prestige, even if those schools would be the better match? How does that work?</p>
<p>I've been to IVY info sessions and at least one admission officer (believe it was Yale) bragged about it "(they) can tell". Guess what, Harvard couldn't tell.</p>
<p>If you visit IvyWise site, they brag about high % of their clients are able to get in their "reach school". Guess they have a way to define "reach school" so they are always covered.</p>
<p>Ghengis-
Thanks, and I did find some other threads which are talking about this subject, so I won't be so annoying by posting off topic any longer.</p>
<p>Admission consulting is rather disgusting.</p>
<p>Education should be the great equalizer where merit, not money, should reign. Admissions consulting takes away from that.</p>
<p>Packaging is one thing (and I find it repulsive and suspect it is probably, in the long run, emotionally destructive to many of the packaged students). </p>
<p>There are, however, plenty of good reasons to consult an outside counselor. They range from wanting to discuss information that the family does not want, for whatever reason, to disclose to the school; an overburdened school counseling system; the student has an interest in a type of school, a course of studies, or a location that the school counselor does not know much about but the outside counselor does; the student is directionless and needs some in-depth assessments; a second opinion; and needing strategy advice on very targeted questions. On the recommendation of several people who had worked with her in the past, my family hired an extremely experienced counselor for a half hour consultation to discuss a specific problem. We were not getting the help we needed from our student's school. That $200 (ouch!) was very well spent. The counselor's advice (which included being able to put the situation into both the broader perspective and the perspective of the specific types of schools that interested us; the names and telephone numbers and introductions to two professionals who helped us a lot; and three alternative strategies for dealing with the problem) broke the logjam and, with a lot of work on our part, got us what we needed.</p>
<p>So, I guess the moral of that story is that, like many things, there are outside counselors and there are outside counselors, there are good reasons to use them and there are bad reasons, etc., but don't rule them out if you find yourself feeling frustrated or panicked or confused and not knowing where else to look for help. Just be clear about why you are doing what you are doing and what you hope to achieve, and if you decide to consult with a counselor try to find someone who is strongly recommended by a person you trust.</p>
<p>BTW, we know a family that retained a counselor because their S had no idea of what he wanted to do, where he wanted to go, etc. They retained a counselor who worked with the student for many hours, having long chats, doing long questionnaires, and developing and then progressively narrowing down a list of schools. It was an odd list, with schools from all over the country with very different atmospheres. The student seemed to love all of the places where he applied, got into several, and had a hard time deciding where to go. The family was really happy with the whole process once they hired the outside counselor. From the outside, it looked as though they just perpetuated the S's indecision, but it seemed to feel very different to them from the inside. I know that they were very anxious until they hired the counselor but then they seemed not at all anxious afterwards.</p>
<p>I clearly see your point, Grace. I do not want to pass any judgment on good or bad. After all, it is up to the admission people to decide. I do, however, advocate disclosure when such service is retained.</p>