Step vs. Bio Parents’ Income (Meet Full Need Schools)

Paying for College
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<p>After a year or so of lurking on CC and reading about how full need schools take ALL sources of income into account, with two step-parents in the mix, we’d pretty much written off need-only schools and focused our search on schools that offer merit. THEN, I came across MIT’s blog “It’s Not Apparent Who is a Parent,” which describe how they try to use bio parent’s income only if at all possible. THEN, while messing around with NPCs, I found Harvard and Duke both instruct you to deduct step-parents income in the calculation. (In my son’s case, this would mean the difference between being “doable” and “don’t bother applying.”) Princeton apparently only wants the custodial parent and their spouse’s income, unless there isn’t a spouse, in which case you include the NCP, but not their spouse? </p>

<p><strong><em>For those of you that are remarried, and/or have exes that have remarried, and have recent experience with any of these meet full need schools, would you care to share your experience as to which sources of income were taken into account?</em></strong></p>

<p>If my son is going to shoot for the moon (in addition to his safeties), I’d prefer he do it at the schools that could potentially be affordable! He’s only interested in schools that offer engineering, but I figure there are probably others in this same situation that might be interested in some of these other meet full need schools (according to USNWR).</p>

<p>Amherst College MA
Barnard College NY
Bates College ME
Blessing-Rieman College of Nursing IL
Boston College MA
Bowdoin College ME
Brown University RI
Bryn Mawr College PA
California Institute of Technology CA
Carleton College MN
Claremont McKenna College CA
Colby College ME
Colgate University NY
College of the Holy Cross MA
Columbia University NY
Cornell University NY
Dartmouth College NH
Davidson College NC
Duke University NC
Emory University GA
Franklin W. Olin College of Engineering MA
Georgetown University DC
Gettysburg College PA
Grinnell College IA
Hamilton College NY
Harvard University MA
Harvey Mudd College CA
Haverford College PA
Macalester College MN
Massachusetts Institute of Technology MA
Middlebury College VT
Mount Holyoke College MA
Northwestern University IL
Oberlin College OH
Occidental College CA
Pitzer College CA
Pomona College CA
Princeton University NJ
Rice University TX
Scripps College CA
Smith College MA
Southern Arkansas University AR
St. Olaf College MN
Stanford University CA
Swarthmore College PA
Thomas Aquinas College CA
Trinity College CT
Tufts University MA
Vanderbilt University TN
University of Chicago IL
University of North Carolina—Chapel Hill NC
University of Pennsylvania PA
University of Richmond VA
University of Southern California CA
University of Virginia VA
Vassar College NY
Washington and Lee University VA
Washington University in St. Louis MO
Wellesley College MA
Wesleyan University CT
Williams College MA
Yale University CT</p>

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<p>Schools that meet full need do so in varying fashions. The schools that use the CSS PROFILE or their own form (as Princeton does) also use their OWN formulas to determine the family contribution they expect.</p>

<p>Re: engineering…if your son is a competitive admit for MIT or Harvard or most of those schools that meet full need, you might also find he is a VERY competitive candidate for generous merit awards at other places.The important thing about engineering is to attend an ABET accredited school.</p>

<p>P.S. Regarding those schools where the step parent info is NOT used…they have single digit acceptance rates, as do at least 10 schools on that list. The first hurdle is to get accepted. Better than 90% of applicants don’t.</p>

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<p>I find it odd that those schools are saying to subtract Steps’ income. </p>

<p>What are they doing about jointly owned assets/savings or what-have-you?</p>

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<p>Yes, Thumper, with these admits rates, I sometimes think that they should all be on the “don’t bother applying” list. But someone has to get in, and his resume is as good as any other “unhooked” applicant. He will mainly be applying to schools that offer guaranteed merit for high stats and those that have some potential for competitive scholarships. We’ll foot the bill for a couple of these long-shot apps, but again, I’d rather them be to the ones we have a chance of affording. If I understand their processes correctly, Princeton and Stanford are off the table, but MIT, Harvard, and Duke might be possible if he should win the acceptance lottery. What I would like to know is “am I understanding them correctly?" </p>

<p>Mom2, I found it odd too after all I’d been reading on CC. I’ll have to go back and check the assets, but IIRC, they said to split them 50/50.</p>

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<p>This is from Harvard’s NPC:

  • Unmarried / Divorced / Separated: Each parent’s contribution is assessed separately. Each parent should use the calculator to obtain an estimated cost for their personal income and asset information. The total estimated net price to attend Harvard is the sum of the estimates of the two parents.
  • Remarried: Remarried parents should separate their income and assets from the applicant’s step-parent’s income and assets. For assets where a clear separation isn’t obvious, please halve the value of these assets and include this value.</p>

<p>Gotta run, but I’ll log on to collegboard later to look at Duke’s again - it was something similar. I almost missed it as it was in the fine print on the right.</p>

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<p>Hi MommyDearest13,</p>

<p>Welcome to college confidential. Could you please provide the link to this?</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I would not recommend that you look at the information from the college board because sometimes it is not up to date. Your best bet would be to go directly to the source- the college.</p>

<p>Your information may be out of date. Looking at FAQs on their financial aid page, they state the following:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>
[quote=Financial Aid Application Instructions 2012-2013 Prospective Students
Harvard College]
</p>

<p>**Noncustodial Parent’s PROFILE **
If your parents are divorced or separated, your noncustodial parent will need to complete a Noncustodial Parent’s PROFILE online. After you have completed your custodial CSS PROFILE, you will receive instructions by email from the College Board explaining how your noncustodial parent may complete this process. </p>

<p><a href=“http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic555686.files/Prospective%20Student%20App%20Instruct%20US%20and%20Canada.pdf[/url]”>http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic555686.files/Prospective%20Student%20App%20Instruct%20US%20and%20Canada.pdf&lt;/a&gt;

[/quote]
</p>

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<p>from Duke</p>

<p>

</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.finaid.duke.edu/documents/Step_By_Step_App_Guide1.pdf[/url]”>http://www.finaid.duke.edu/documents/Step_By_Step_App_Guide1.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>they do not mention anything about eliminating the stepparent income</p>

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<p>Princeton’s non-custodial financial aid form states the following:

</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>Daniel Barkowitz, the person who wrote the blog and a CC poster, is no longer at MIT. That was also in the good old days where many top schools had no loan policies. However, the financial aid landscape at many schools have changed with the economic downturn and policies that were even in place 2 to 3 years ago, are no longer in place today.</p>

<p>My recommendation is to go to their site and get the most current information.</p>

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<p>I agree with Sybbie. ALso, one should call the financial aid office, get an officer who knows how the aid works and outright ask. </p>

<p>Things are changing so quickly that one has to do this for a number of things. I have found so many changes on a year to year basis. Schools that were need blind no longer are. Those that said they were need aware but only for a very few students have now stretched that “very few”. Schools that stated they would not give merit aid, have added it. Schools that did not give loans for need have quietly added it to their packages. </p>

<p>One problem with the now very handy, quick way of getting info from the internet, is that at times you can pull up a page that is outdated. I had a very embarrassing episode where I did not check the date of some news, assumed it was current when it was years out of date. When something important rides on the accuracy of the information, you should always go to the source. Even websites have incorrect information at times that was not updated as it should have been.</p>

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<p>I believe MommyDearest13 posted the explanation of how to fill out the NPC (Net Price Calculator) from Harvard’s website. That would be the most accurate information of how Harvard calculates. To me this says that you fill out the CSS and Noncustodial CSS according to the CSS instructions (which includes all incomes bio & step) - then Harvard subtracts out the step’s income and halves the assets as part of their own method to come up with Parental contribution. The NPC has shown some light on the heretofore “black box” of how Harvard calculates divorced/remarried situations.</p>

<p>I wouldn’t cross off Princeton. I believe they may be generous to combined families too.</p>

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<p>Do y’all think this is a new policy to save time re-evaluating so many FA pkgs because families were complaining that “new wife” or “new H” is not contributing to the new stepkid’s college costs???</p>

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<p>Sybbie – thanks for the info – I have read through all these schools finaid pages and then some! What I posted were the instructions on Harvard’s net price calculator from their site, which should be current. [Net</a> Price Calculator](<a href=“http://npc.fas.harvard.edu/]Net”>http://npc.fas.harvard.edu/). I can’t see why they would instruct you to deduct stepparent income if they include it in their actual calculation. </p>

<p>This is from Duke’s Net Price Calculator - you have to log onto CB to access it (<a href=“http://www.admissions.duke.edu/jump/applying/finaid.html):%5B/url%5D”>http://www.admissions.duke.edu/jump/applying/finaid.html):</a><br>
“Duke’s philosophy is that it is the responsibility of both biological/adoptive parents to support their child’s higher education expenses.
If your parents don’t live together, first answer the questions with information about the parent you live with most of the time. Once you’ve completed the first calculation, you will then need to start the calculator over again using your other parent’s information. The sum of these two will be the total your parents will be expected to contribute. If either parent has remarried, do not include your step-parent’s or step-siblings’ information.”</p>

<p>I did go to the MIT site . . . it flat out tells you that if there are stepparents, then the calculator will not work. lol</p>

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<p>Your question was the source of much angst on my part 5 years ago. Even with calling the offices asking the question directly, it was very difficult to get a straight answer. Actually, I never felt I did. </p>

<p>I have felt children of divorce get short-changed in the f/a process. Yes, there are 4 people producing income, but there are 2 households being supported.</p>

<p>On your list, we dealt with Boston College, Yale, Duke and Vandy. BC was the most difficult to work with; Duke gave the most aid, with Vandy a close second. YMMV</p>

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<p>I have felt children of divorce get short-changed in the f/a process. Yes, there are 4 people producing income, but there are 2 households being supported.</p>

<p>I’m pretty sure that is taken into account. They don’t just add up 4 incomes and give the same EFC. </p>

<p>4 people producing an income of $150k does not net the same EFC as when 2 married parents are producing the same. There is some amount (maybe $25k) that is assumed to be kind of basic household costs. </p>

<p>I think each household is calculated and then the EFCs are totaled. So, if one household only earns $50k, that EFC may only be $5k. And if the other household earns $100k, that EFC may be $20k. So that produces a “family contribution” of $30k…and the fact that there are two households was included.</p>

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<p>Mommydearest,</p>

<p>Since you and your ex are first in line when it comes to paying for your child’s education, I would recommend that you do this;</p>

<p>run your numbers along with your spouse (if applicable) through the fa calculator. remember you must include any chid support received.</p>

<p>Then sit down with your spouse to discuss the EFC to see if it is doable in your house.</p>

<p>Then </p>

<p>Explain to your ex that your son is considering applying to schools that will require information regarding his income and assets and possibly the income assets of his spouse.</p>

<p>Ask him to run his information through the net price calculator twice. Once using only his information and one using the information of him and his spouse.</p>

<p>Then all of you (parents and spouses) need to sit down together and discuss what is doable given the best and worse case scenarios. Tell your child realistically what you are willing to pay/borrow for his education, then build your list making sure that you have at least 2 true safey schools that meets the following criteria:</p>

<p>A school where your child has an excellent chance of being admitted (and has his major)
if it is the only school that he has been admitted to, he will be happy to attend
the school is a financially feasible option for your family.</p>

<p>After that compile a list where your child stands a good chance of getting merit $ even if it means that he has to “step down” a bit from the highly selective schools.</p>

<p>Remember while your ex will have his own EFC, colleges don’t care who pays it, as long as it gets paid. They also do not take in to consideration what is in your divorce decree regarding paying for college or any side deals that you have put together.</p>

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<p>Sybbie, thanks for taking the time to type all that out, but I’m way ahead of you! I guess that’s why I am where I am – I’ve crunched the numbers every which way and there is a huge disparity – again, doable vs. don’t bother applying. My son is very aware of how much we can contribute, how much he can take out in loans, and the need to apply to schools that have a strong possibility of coming in with an out-of-pocket cost under the total of the two. Figuring out if there are need-only schools that would meet that criteria is the difficult task. Like I said before, after reading CC for a year, I thought there weren’t any. The instructions on these calculators have given me hope for my son – probably false hope! </p>

<p>I’d really like to hear from 2012ers about their actual experience with the npc vs. actual aid offers. From recent comments, it sounds like the full need school calculators have been pretty reliable, but I don’t see any information specific to blended families. Perhaps it would only be anecdotal due to all the variables . . . but in our case, next year (if accepted) I think it would be very clear whose income was considered. Trying to get this information out there for others like srystress and me.</p>

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<p>MommyDearest - I think you’re on the right track by digging into the details of the NPC’s. They do reveal policies that may be understated or unstated on college financial aid web sites. My sense is that your next step is to call the financial aid offices of the lottery schools your son might be interested in and see if you can get some clarification on your questions. Some colleges will provide an early estimate of your institutional EFC based on a fall PROFILE submission, but I don’t know if any of the schools you’ve mentioned do that.</p>

<p>For any schools that do include stepparent data in their formula, you might want to ask if they include both income and assets from the stepparent. Where the stepparent is included, I think the default approach is to include their income but not their assets. But you have to check because each school can adjust the formula however it wants to.</p>

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<p>MD13 - I have been through the application process 2 times - once with a NCP and this time with a remarried NCP. It is very difficult to guess what any one college might assess for the “EFC”. I am providing a link below that is College Board’s advice for using the CSS NCP. The CB made the CSS NCP and this is how they think it should be used. I have received many aggravated responses for posting this a few years ago so please note I neither endorse Nor developed this document! I am only posting it as a point of reference.</p>

<p>From my personal experience it seems the higher ranked/better endowed schools use this method or something similar.</p>

<p><a href=“Financial Aid Services”>Financial Aid Services;

<p>I would suggest you apply widely.</p>

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<p>As noted by NewEnglandMother…cast a WIDE net. As long as your son knows up front what your financial limitations will be at the END of the process, it’s alright to apply to some schools that MIGHT fulfill your hopes. If it were me, however, I would not make this the bulk of my application list…a part…but not the bulk.</p>

<p>Make sure you have some choices in the mix that either have guaranteed merit aid based on his stats, or an affordable cost to begin with…or that don’t use the NCP at ALL (some schools do not…but you have to do your research to find them).</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>