<p>My stepdaughter wants to be an elementary school teacher. She has applied to both private and state schools, but her first choice school (McDaniel College) has only an education MINOR, not a major. Basically you major in something like Psychology and minor in Education (although the minor is 60+ hours!). They are accredited and she would receive her certification. We're not so worried about her getting a good education/coursework but more so if it would put her at a disadvantage in getting a job because there will be plenty of other resumes on a principal's desk from Ed MAJORS. We're also concerned about this because her second choice school (Millersville State) is well known for Education, but (we feel) she wants to go to McDaniel because it is closer to her high school friends. She says she wants to go there because of the small size (something she was against four months ago) and because they've been so nice to her. I would agree those are great, but her degree needs to be top notch since there's no shortage of elementary teachers in this area.</p>
<p>Any thoughts? All things being equal, if you were doing the hiring would you choose an Ed minor with a Psych major over someone with an Ed major? We just want to make sure she can actually get hired in her chosen field once she graduates.</p>
<p>Many states now require teachers to have a degree in the subject they are teaching - like English, History, etc. and then a 5th year or Masters in Education. She should look at the requirements in the state where she’d like to teach and make sure the degree path she is on will qualify her for a job.</p>
<p>Certification and references from student teaching situation will be most important. Here in the Northeast…to be hired in the higher performing (and higher paying) school districts, it’s become very important to have a master’s degree!</p>
<p>I would check a couple of things. Where do the McDaniel education grads get teaching jobs? And what is the starting pay for teachers in PA versus MD? Is the certification reciprocal between Maryland and PA (I am assuming Millersville is PA; please correct me if I am wrong)? Maryland, in my county, has a fairly low starting salary; I think it is considerably less than 30 miles up the road in PA.</p>
<p>In many states, the masters is earned later because all states have continuing ed requirements.</p>
<p>@zeebamom- I guess I’ve heard that a lot in grades 7-12 but in elementary they’re teaching all subjects. And McDaniel doesn’t have you specifically take a subject as your main degree if you want to be elementary ed, you take Communication, English, History, Mathematics, Sociology, or Psychology (she would tend to choose Psychology). I guess that’s why I’m questioning if a minor is starting to be the norm when every other school she applied to has the major.</p>
<p>Thanks for the responses so far - maybe this isn’t as big a deal as we were thinking. I’m going to check Millersville’s (yes it’s in PA) curriculum a little more too. It’s just kind of weird because it seems like McDaniel has you do a double major credit wise but you don’t get to claim a double major.</p>
<p>Out here in California most of the schools don’t have an ED major. Generally for the elementary school teachers they major in something like liberal studies and then go on for a 5th year to get their credential.</p>
<p>In Iowa, they majored in elementary education. I think they do that at the state schools in Maryland too.</p>
<p>If I were heading off to college with the goal of becoming an elementary school teacher, I would want many classes in learning disabilities and working with gifted kids. I would look very carefully at the curriculum for McDaniel.</p>
<p>Odessagirl from Maryland - getting a teaching degree in PA. Has to take all credits for History Major - and also credits for Secondary Education major. Secondary Education is grades 7-12.</p>
<p>I would suggest going to a college that has a major in Elementary Education. How about Towson? (Very different school and area from McDaniel in Westminster, though.)</p>
<p>As long as she meets certification requirements, I don’t think an ed major vs. minor makes any difference at all. And if it makes a (slight) difference, the difference is just as likely to be negative as positive – lots of principals would rather hire someone with more substantive expertise and fewer education credits.</p>
<p>I think for elementary ed, a major would be important. In secondary, they need a major in the subject area, so a minor might be more workable. But, you’re correct, she’ll be competing for jobs against not only people who have majors but who also have a variety of endorsements. If a school doesn’t have the curriculum to put together a major, I’d definitely look to see if they offer enough classes to meet the state requirements for the various el ed endorsements. A 60 hour minor seems huge, but at the instution where I work, el ed is one of the few majors that doesn’t also requrie a minor because there’s no time for it. Those kids get gen eds, many of which are dictated by the major, and classes in the major, and they still graduate with way more than 124 hours. </p>
<p>I’d also encourage D to think beyond what is required in one state. With the current budget crisis in education (and it may take several years to ease), finding a job may require relocation. The last thing she wants is to have to take a job in another state that is contingent on her taking a lot more classes because her minor didn’t offer enough classes or the right ones. In my state, the requirements for teacher certification have mushroomed over that last 10 years.</p>
<p>I agree with JHS. Education programs follow the legal requirements for certification for the state in which they are located. It’s the program that matters; not what it’s labeled. In NJ, for instance, all teachers must be “highly qualified” which means they have subject experience, not only Ed courses.</p>
<p>There are so many schools that do not have undergraduate education programs that she is likely to be competing with teachers who have a masters or 5th yr certification.
Look to what the state requires and what schools are looking for when hiring.</p>
<p>I don’t think it makes that much of a difference as long as she gets the certification. Where it hurts is when you go to aschool that doesn’t offer education at all, and you have to go summers or if there is a swap program with local school, go that route which can be a logistical pain. Not to mention, if the swap is with a state school, and you are at a private, you would be paying much more than other students for those courses. If that is truly ones goal, it is not financial smart to do this. </p>
<p>But McDaniel has the certification. I don’t see a problem here.</p>
<p>Years ago, at least in most of New England, colleges/universities began doing away with their “school of education” because certification requirements began requiring a background in a subject area, rather than just a general “education” major. I am certified in two states, and graduated from Mt. Holyoke College. Even twenty something years ago, I couldn’t major in Elementary Ed. I had to have an “inter-disciplinary” major of psychology and education, all leading to a student teaching semester. I graduated with my Bachelor of arts degree, and teaching certification. That certification is really what matters most to even apply for jobs. Then, as others have said, many hiring districts want teachers to have a solid background in a subject area. The current trend, upper elementary grades and lower, is to “departmentalize”, where one teacher may teach the math and science, another the language arts, etc. In the very lower grades, the teachers still teach everything, but I know of schools where, starting at grade 3, the teachers teach more in their area of expertise. The important thing to consider is whether the certification offered by the chosen college is one that will bring reciprocity with other states, how many hours of pre-practica students do (the time in classrooms before student teaching so students can know the job is truly for them), and where opportunities are for the student teaching semester (can students student teach in their home town, or charter schools, etc.)
Good luck to your daughter. Teachers are faced with a lot more than in the old days - it is a demanding career, and her preparation should be demanding as well.</p>
<p>Regarding a Master’s; in this time when budgets are so tight, it can hurt to be an inexperienced candidate with a Master’s. It can help to be an inexperienced candidate with a Bachelors. This is because it costs more to pay a person with a Master’s, but yet that person may be just as inexperienced. When the budget is tight, schools may not want to pay more if you are as inexperienced as the person they can hire with the less costly Bachelors. Also, some school systems still contribute toward the Master’s degree, so it can be wise to get a job first, and then begin working toward the Master’s.</p>
<p>^I only take issue with the 2nd paragraph in the post above. In 1994, my first year as an elementary teacher, I had long ago completed the B.A. (no education minor or major) and a new one-year Masters in Teaching with Certification. </p>
<p>While inexperienced teaching public elementary students, I watched other, younger teachers hired same-year with only their Bachelors (to save the district money). They took jobs with an expectation that they work on their Masters (no money help there) and given a deadline to finish it. (I think 5 year deadline; and they had 3 years probationary before they could be awarded tenure). Those women ran themselves into the ground, teaching all day, toting home work/prep for their students, driving afterschool to evening graduate courses, AND doing homework/exames for their graduate courses. They handled first-year probationary evaluations professionally without benefit of Masters level courses. They all made it through but looked exhausted and wan. All postponed starting their own families, too.</p>
<p>I hope, hope, hope some school districts figure this out by the time your D is competing for jobs. They hire people and expect them to magically take their masters’ degrees within the first several years as a new teacher. They wear them right into the ground, to save a few bucks on their hiring budgets. </p>
<p>If she might want to go all the way to a Masters degree and compete for work after it, she might (with geographic mobility) find a happier career start in general. In that case, it wouldn’t matter at all whether she had an Ed major or Ed minor, because she’d be coming at the school districts for first-hire with her masters degree all complete.</p>
<p>I know it’s conventional wisdom she can’t compete if she costs the districts more at first, but maybe there are some districts who can see through this insanity. (vent done)</p>
<p>Yeah, I know what you mean about the masters/no masters issue. Both my parents are teachers, having graduated in the early 70s when there was also a glut of teachers. They both have ONE class short of their masters because, at the time, schools wanted the coursework of a teacher with a masters, but wanted to pay for a bachelors. I think it might be a little better now because you do have to get the masters at some point (when my parents were getting jobs a bachelors was all the was required by the state…).</p>
<p>I’ll be honest, with her current work ethic we’re going into this hoping she makes it through four years, let alone five to six.</p>
<p>It would be good for her to be around more kids with a strong work ethic, or at least kids who are currently working pretty hard - That would be the argument for sending her to a college where she will have good support. Small classes might be good; more attention from professors. That might also be an argument for sending her to a college with a high retention rate, freshman to sophomore year.</p>
<p>In order to find a job in elementary ed these days, the best certification/background you can get is teaching English language learners. Look for that opportunity and your odds of finding employment will be much higher.</p>