Should we talk to teachers a lot after school?
Participate in class? What if there is not much opportunity to participate in class?
There is no particular strategy. If you are a good, conscientious, respectful, well behaved student who treats students and teachers nicely then you will have a choice of people you can ask.
Ask only teachers who love your child. Test run potential recommenders for summer program recommendations. Give them detailed list of items you want to be covered in recommendation, but don’t push since many of them will not write something they don’t believe in. MIT website has excellent points. Have your child schedule a meeting with recommenders to talk if they have any questions.
bump
I would not give a teacher a list of what should be in the recommendation. I think a lot of teachers would be offended by that. You might ask the teacher I they want a list of your ECs & accomplishments, possible areas of study, etc. Sometimes your GC can help you decide who to ask, too – they know who writes the best recommendations.
You ask a teacher who likes you. You put forth your best effort in that class. Not that tricky.
Your plan to suddenly “participate a lot” or to initiate “conversations after school” seem rather mercenary and patronizing. If you don’t know what relationship is or how to develop one, then your search for the silver bullets to “good” teacher recs will be Quixotic.
Here is a question, what happens if you believe the teachers who like your child best do not necessarily think your child is all that brilliant?
My little snowflake is doing amazing in AP Chemistry (much better than I would expect snowflake to do). However, I know that the AP Chem teacher is not a gusher and is generally not used (or suggested) for recommendations. AP Chem teacher has recommended Snowflake for even harder science next year but Snowflake has not asked her for a college recommendation.
Snowflake is planning to ask the AP Euro teacher (who often does recommendations and writes well) LOVES Snowflake, adores Snowflake, thinks Snowflake is a great kid. However, he and I have also discussed where Snowflake will apply and he has already said flat out that Snowflake does not belong at a HYPSMC (is not applying unless gets a 1600 and if that happens I am buying lottery tickets) and has suggested a #30 and #35 as being a good fit for Snowflake, one of them is but will not work for us due to distance. The other is really more of a safety for Snowflake (I know I know, nothing is safe blah blah). Snowflake has expressed interest in several Top 20 schools which we plan to visit. AP Euro teacher is not the guidance counselor but does help kids with essays and ideas. To the extent that class papers are subjective, AP Euro tends to grade Snowflake kind of harshly (Snowflake writes well and is good in Euro). I actually think part of that, you are not HYPSM bias translates into lower grades on essays (if I read this I would think I was nuts and just being a typical biased parent but based on this teachers philosophy and unrelated things I have heard said, I do not think I am).
So my fear is that AP Euro will in some way undercut Snowflake in the recommendation. While he thinks Snowflake is great he thinks of Snowflake as more an A- student rather than a true top student. This teacher is not malicious at all, he genuinely LOVES Snowflake. I think he simply has some warped perceptions. There are not a lot of choices of teachers. I could ask the college counselor for advice but I am afraid to draw attention to this since the counselor also has to write a recommendation.
What about Snowflake’s English teacher(s) or other history teachers? If Snowflake is truly as strong a student as you believe him/her to be perhaps they will concur and write a solid rec.
The fact that the AP Euro teacher – who can compare the quality of Snowflake’s work with those of his/her peers both in her grade and over the course an entire teaching career – does not consider Snowflake’s work to be of sufficiently high caliber for Snowflake get into or thrive at a top 20 school, should give you pause, however.
I don’t remember talking to my kid’s teachers (small school where I saw them regularly, too) about where she was applying. Most teachers won’t deliberately undercut a kid anyway – but they aren’t going to say that snowflake is one of their most amazing students ever if they aren’t. Nor should they. If a kid doesn’t have any teachers saying that, the kid maybe isn’t HYPSM material. You can’t make a recommendation materialize when the content is not there. I’d look beyond these two teachers if possible, but might go with the Chem teacher if she needs one from them.
I’d suggest that after a teacher has agreed (and you should ask in person if they’d be willing), you follow up in writing with a note thanking them and letting them know what you feel most proud of that you accomplished in their class – whether it was improving a poor grade, helping another student, getting straight As, a particular research project, etc. as well as how that might be relevant to your future studies.
This is NOT telling them what to write, but it can helps them understand why you’ve asked them to do this. It also reminds them that you are respectful and thoughtful.
Snowflake has very few teachers to choose from. You are limited to Junior and Senior core teachers. The language teacher is not fluent in English. No other history class this year and the school requires all recommendations to be in by July 1. Other science teacher is from Sophomore year.
English teacher is already on board and raves about Snowflake, this is for the second recommendation. Second English teacher would also write a good recommendation but Snowflake was told not to get two English teachers.
Snowflake and math are not a good combination (that is why I am so surprised about AP Chem), Snowflake is doing well in math now but got off to a rough start and I would not ask math teacher for a recommendation (no personality) and Snowflake has never had next year’s math teacher.
@LoveTheBard reading this thread, without knowing AP Euro teacher, I would absolutely agree with you. Knowing AP Euro teacher, I think he is unreasonable. Having had general conversations with him, and this is not my first kid to have this teacher and when D1 had him, he was unreasonable too. He has one son who went to a HYP in the 1990s and I think he compares all his students to him. The difference was that he did not love D1 the way he loves Snowflake, Snowflake is much more loveable (teachers over the years make that comment about Snowflake) and he runs some of the clubs Snowflake is involved in. He will be insulted if Snowflake does not ask him.
There are students at the school, who are at Top 20 colleges and some who have graduated from Top 20 colleges who never got anything with a B+ EXCEPT for AP Euro (and that was with a 4 or 5 on the AP test).
The thing I am afraid of is really subtle.
@gardenstategal I LOVE that suggestion
@intparent he asked me at parent teacher conferences earlier in the year. Then when I mentioned we visited cousins at X school looked horrified and said, that is not a school for Snowflake, Y and Z would be a good fit.
I do not think Snowflake belongs at a HYPS (and definitely not M!) either although if that 3.7 average graduating GPA from H on another thread is really true about H, why not!) but more for personality rather than ability. D1 wanted to be with other high stats kids and was confident in her ability to handle it. Snowflake wants a solid academic reputation but I do not think Snowflake wants a place where Snowflake is the last one admitted from the wait list. However I do not think Snowflake wants a place where Snowflake will get Merit money either. For financial reasons Snowflake must attend a meets full needs school or go in state.
@SeekingPam , the teacher rec doesn’t have to come from the class he has the highest grade in. It can also come from a class he has shown a lot of improvement in. I think you should let your child decide who is the best person to write the rec. He can also talk to his counselor, who probably knows if his teacher rec choices are good ones.
Re the Lang teacher, it isn’t important if the Lang teacher isn’t totally fluent in English. Though you might be underestimating the teacher’s writing ability. If the teacher is teaching here in the US, I am very certain that teacher must be fluent, but perhaps you’re mistaking an accent for lack of fluency? A teacher rec should reflect specific attributes about the student. If the Lang teacher doesn’t know the exact word, he/she probably has a dictionary.
Regarding the teacher who was pooh poohing your kid applying to top 20 schools, it seems perhaps that teacher might be very senior at the school and has maybe seen enough disappointed applicants to try and temper kids’ expectations. I know you read my thread about “average” excellent students, and at least you understand the extremely slim chances. Of course your son should try for a Top 20 or two if his grades and scores are in the ballpark, and it might be a good motivator. But I do hope you keep visits to those Top 20 schools to a minimum. My biggest regret through this whole thing was the time and money wasted seeing a bunch of reach schools that my D didn’t have a shot at, even if it seemed as though, on paper, her stats were within range.
In fact, I would have to think (caveat: I have never been on an admissions committee) that a letter from a teacher who gave the student a B but who can attest to that student’s level of grit and determination (both big buzzwords in higher ed right now) and growth in the subject would be an incredible asset to an application.
I am confused. It sounds like you also do not think snowflake is HYPSM material. There are quite a few meets need schools that are below those 5. I am not sure now that I see the problem.
@T26E4 What’s so bad about trying to get good recommendations? What if I genuinely want to talk to teachers? How will they know the difference between faking to get a good recommendation and being genuine.
This is always good to look at when thinking about recommendations:
http://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/writingrecs
IMO, teacher recs are kind of scary because if they even write one negative thing (Maybe they had a bad day), then you are automatically rejected.
And prep schools have an advantage because the school is designed to get the person into a better college, so the teachers are instructed to write recs well.
Is this actually true? Admissions folks I’ve talked to, this doesn’t seem to actually be the case.
No teacher should be writing you a negative rec. If they are decent teacher, they will ask you find another recommender if they think they can’t say enough good stuff. The key, as has already been stated, is to find a teacher who likes you and who you like too.