<p>You might want to check out St. Olaf's. I'm not sure of the statistics, but many of the students double-major in music and liberal arts course.</p>
<p>"To unregistered: Wow, that's really interesting. But quite disappointing, as it was definitely one of my favorite schools of the ones I visited."</p>
<p>They're making improvements, and through the 5-college consortium you'll have a toooon of opportunities. Plus, it's an amazing school, so apply anyways!</p>
<p>To unregistered:</p>
<p>Do you have any idea as to the specific improvements they are working towards?</p>
<p>A couple of comments to add with the caveat that we looked at programs from a string prospective.</p>
<p>Middlebury - son liked the school but the music department did not seem that strong. There was no teacher in his instrument (viola). Facilities are quite nice and they had some excellent performers coming to the school for their concert series, but I think they are pretty isolated to attract strong teachers who want to continue to perform as well as teach.</p>
<p>Lewis & Clark - I know 2 local string players who attended. One planned on majoring in music and transferred after her freshman year because she was very disappointed by the level of the department. The 2nd did not plan on majoring in music but thought about a minor. She, too, was very disappointed. She ended up seeking out playing opportunities outside of the college with mixed results. </p>
<p>For both of these schools, voice may be totally different, but I thought I would add my 2 cents.</p>
<p>Another northeastern school to check out if you decide on the LAC/BA route should be Colby. Outstanding vocal teacher who regularly places students in good grad programs for voice and is great with intermediate students as well; both traditional chorale (tours internationally) and an early music vocal ensemble led by faculty; vocal chamber music; jazz improv classes that welcome vocalists; lots of performing opportunities including musicals with the theater dept., along with strength in history, IR, and anthro.</p>
<p>DD and I visited Reed and were not impressed with the music department. Now for academics in general, different impression totally.</p>
<p>On location:
Northfield, MN - the town of Carleton College and St. Olaf College - is actually a pretty decent college town. I had a wonderful dinner of Indian food there. With the two colleges, there's enough to make it an interesting place. Plus it's not that far from the Twin Cities.</p>
<p>Wow, I never would have guessed some of these pairings... My old list just kind of got washed down the drain!</p>
<p>To Shennie: Ugh. Two schools I really, really liked. Based on the website, Middlebury's music department had seemed pretty decent, although not exactly spectacular. I think you're right about how teachers who want to continue performing aren't exactly drawn to the location. I'll have to look into what you said about Lewis and Clark, because it had otherwise seemed like a great fit. And also, I had hoped that LC would use Portland's great location to its advantage in terms of the arts, in a way that perhaps Reed cannot due to its heavy emphasis on academics.</p>
<p>To MarathonMan88: Colby, eh? Hmm. I hadn't considered that before.... Compared to Bowdoin and Bates, would you say that its music department is far superior? I will absolutely look further into this.</p>
<p>To Erin's Dad: Yet another disappointment, as I am thoroughly impressed and enticed by Reed's academics. But I guess that the arduous workload deems that most other non-intellectual pursuits be put aside... It's just so frustrating!</p>
<p>To momfromme: Is there collaboration at all between Carleton and St. Olaf?</p>
<p>Oh, and here are some other schools I'm curious about:</p>
<p>Hamilton
Bowdoin
Bates
Haverford</p>
<p>You guys are amazing. I can't even articulate how profoundly helpful you all have been to me. Thank you all so, so much.</p>
<p>Carleton is trimesters (has a long break from Thanksgiving to New Year's and goes into first week of June) and St Olaf is 4-1-4. We were told no overlap of classes, which was the first question we asked, as Carleton has a great, funky, friendly feel and St Olaf has spectacular choral music. From our visit, Carleton has music but very few majors (10 last year?) and the building was quiet when we were there. Olaf was hopping and has lots of music majors--everyone was very helpful and friendly to us. Northfield is actually quite friendly and seems to have some excellent places to eat (college-wise!) and isn't all that far from Minn/St Paul (and compared to the NY metro area, where we live, too, the roads are wide and not heavily congested, therefore you can drive fast to the city!).</p>
<p>have you listened to clips of choral ensembles on college websites? S has found these quite telling in many ways. Also look at lists of recent repertoire, if that's important to you.</p>
<p>My son wouldn't consider Haverford or Swarthmore because the music program at both was very small and limited. And they don't guarantee a faculty person for lessons. They do subsidize trips into Philly, but my son is somewhat lazy so that wouldn't have worked for him.</p>
<p>Bates has an enthusiastic music department. S's friend is excited. He's a drummer. </p>
<p>I think Skidmore has been mentioned. S is very happy with vocal opportunities as Williams. I don't think anyone has suggested Bennington, but I think it would be an option, as is Marlboro is you can't stand how small it is.</p>
<p>You might want to consider Barnard. You can take lessons at Juilliard and the Manhattan School of Music.</p>
<p>Have you looked at Purchase? I have heard that its voice program is excellent.</p>
<p>To Neumes: So, even the performing ensembles are closed to Carleton students? That's a shame.... And that's a great idea, about listening to the audio samples! Thanks!</p>
<p>To mythmom: About the schools you suggested... I'll add Bates to the list f schools to check out. Skidmore is already on there. I visited Bennington and found it far too small and remote. I feel like Barnard would be a great fit for me, but I live about half an hour away from NYC and I feel pretty strongly that I don't want to go to college somewhere so familiar or close. Ditto with Purchase, which is half an hour away in the other direction! But, I'll look further into Bates and Skidmore. Thanks so much!</p>
<p>About Swarthmore, it seems like they have some pretty prestigious facuty members. Is this just for show or are they actually as good teachers as their qualifications warrant? And about the subsidied lessons, I understand that this is the reward for a scholarship... do you know how difficult it is to receive that specific scholarship? Also, it would seem that music teachers in Philly might be quite wonderful, as there are a few music schools in the area, namely Curtis. Am I wrong in presuming that these teachers might be available for lessons to Swarthmore/Haverford/Bryn Mawr students? Do any of the three Philly colleges help in tracking down a good teacher, or are you pretty much left up to your own devices?</p>
<p>In Phila you have Curtis, Academy of Vocal Arts and University of the Arts. All 3 schools have vocal music programs, each with a different emphasis. The vocal instructors at all 3 schools work at the schools in part time capacities and offer private lessons but you would of course need to determine availability. Of the 3 institutions, I would check out the instructors at UArts and Curtis first; AVA is more geared towards what I would consider "post graduate" professional operatic training.</p>
<p>I think the schools would help. You're a proactive young woman, so this might work for you. My S, whom I adore, is a slug of a boy, and if the lessons weren't immediately available on campus I don't think he'd bother. And to do him justice, violin practice is more time consuming than vocal practice (voice needs rest), so he felt he wouldn't have time to go into Philly. YMMV.</p>
<p>We live two hours from Barnard and D is there. She likes the mix because she can come home when desired, but is quite on her own in the city which is its own culture. I don't think she feels any "closer" than if she were 10 hours away when she is emmeshed in her own life. But I do understand your feelings; just thought I'd throw these thoughts into the mix.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>Daydreamer - You've gotten a number of suggestions here, all good ones for certain purposes, but you'll need to be sure that you understand the difference between a B.A. in Music with the opportunity to study vocal performance, and a B.M. in Vocal Performance. They're two very different types of programs.</p>
<p>A Bachelor of Arts degree in Music is a liberal arts degree that any student may opt to pursue - the courses in the major will require about 36 hours out of the 120-128 required for graduation in most places. It's a degree for people with an interest in music though not necessarily a plan to become a professional performer. A Bachelor of Music degree is a pre-professional degree that may take up anywhere from 75-100 hours including performance training for academic credit. Entrance is by audition only, and it's essentially a conservatory education in a college setting.</p>
<p>The two are generally non-compatible, though some B.M. programs are more rigorous than others. Oberlin is the rare liberal arts college that is renowned for its B.M. in Voice, but while it's possible to do a double degree, it requires five years.</p>
<p>And just to take gadad's info a bit further, most BM performance based programs are auditioned based and at a school like Oberlin (and a few of the other conservatory level programs mentioned) are extremely competitive and highly selective.</p>
<p>Violadad, interesting that you should note programs that are extremely competitive and highly selective. I was just going to caution the OP that she should only apply to voice programs that are extremely competitive and highly selective, and then only major in voice if she gets into one of those. My husband sings professionally and we know scores of singers. So few terrific singers make it professionally. There are lots of schools out there with voice programs with lots of slots to fill.</p>
<p>We have a good friend who was a vocal performance major at a large university. It wasn't until he was in their doctoral program that a voice faculty member leveled with him that he wasn't good enough. The thing is, the guy is an above average church choir member....he's not even at the top of our church choir. But the school was willing to let him get an ungraduate degree in vocal perfomance.</p>
<p>So please, aim for the best and if you aren't the best, figure out a plan B.</p>
<p>Just to clarify about Oberlin, you can do the dual-degree program which takes 5 years and would give you a BM and BA. OR you could Just get a BA with the college and double major with the College Music Major and then major in something else. Just know that doing a college music major won't get you all of the perks that the con students have, but you'll get more access to the professors and things you need more than a student just interested in music will. But it's still a great program and I have a friend double majoring in college music and physics, so it's definitely worth your time. :)</p>
<p>misspie- From the first post, it seems that the OP doesn't intend to pursue performance as a career, or as a precursor to graduate vocal studies. Based on the bulk of her school choices, that's how I took her question.</p>
<p>My son is an '07 Hartt grad with a BM in viola performance. While he's already secured a regional pro orchestra chair, it's a long road before stability and financial security as a performing artist is achieved. </p>
<p>The performing world is tough, the competition is fierce, and the level of talent is incredible.</p>
<p>I agree that an honest professional assessment (or three) of talent is warranted prior to deciding on a performance path. There are many ways of incorporating your Muse into your life other than relying on it to put bread on the table.</p>
<p>It's important not to engage the pursuit with unrealistic expectations or overly optomistic encouragement. </p>
<p>And Plan B should always be kept free of dust.</p>
<p>To violadad: I would, in fact, like to pursue performance as a career... I'm just not sure of the medium. It might be classical (although probably not), possibly jazz/blues, possibly rock... And because it's likely not to be in the classical world, I don't feel the pressure to attend a conservatory, but instead to receive the training that any kind of vocal career warrants.</p>
<p>Does that make sense? Or am I being naive? Please, be honest.</p>
<p>daydreamer- I misinterpreted your post, and assumed that your pursuit of schools with good vocal programs was more of pursuing an interest rather than a potential choice of careers.</p>
<p>My son is an instrumentalist, my experiences are based on that. The development of techniques and skill sets tend to begin at an earlier age for instrumental players than for vocalists, due for the most part to voice maturity. </p>
<p>Personally, I have no backgound or training that would enable me to assess vocal talent, classically or otherwise. What I would suggest is that you get an opinion from your private voice teacher, choir director, vocal coach as to your talent level and potential for growth. A couple of honest assessments go a long way in helping to determine if a professional career as a vocalist is feasible.</p>
<p>There are many tremendous talents, and even those with the best natural skills, the best teachers, coaches, and schools don't necessarily make a successful career in performance. This is true in all of the performing arts. </p>
<p>If you haven't read the great thread by BassDad at the music major forum here <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=258796%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=258796</a> I urge you you do so. While it is written for and from an instrumental perspective, there are many similarities in the application and audition processes pertinent to voice. Within the thread there is a link to a Peabody page. Follow it, and there's a great take on how music might relate to you and your career goals, and a good article on the double major aspect.</p>
<p>Also, here's a link from Rice <a href="http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/%7Enavmusic/careerpaths/index.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~navmusic/careerpaths/index.html</a> with some overviews of potential music careers and pursuits.</p>
<p>The music major and music theater forums have numerous posters with broad vocal experience and are eminently qualified to recommend numerous conservatory level programs in voice. Note that conservatory level does not necessarily mean strict conservatory, but top quality music programs within a university or college setting. Rice/Sheperd, Rochester/Eastman, Hopkins/Peabody, Indiana/Jacobs and Oberlin are all prime examples and there are far more; these are among the top music schools in the country across numerous disciplines.</p>
<p>While a number of great schools with solid music programs have been mentioned, they may not necessarily be the best choices if your goal is performance. You might want to post a link in the music forum to your thread here, or ask a moderator to move it to that forum if your path takes that route.</p>
<p>Good luck to you.</p>