Student body like Dartmouth/Princeton in match or safety

<p>Colby is a–maybe the-- traditional Dartmouth backup. (Without being in any way a backup-- a great school, rural, northern, more conservative than some.) Bowdoin is way more liberal. I agree with Colgate, Lehigh, Bucknell, Trinity…also Connecticut College. George Washington might work too.</p>

<p>I would also recommend looking at St Olaf in Minnesota. It may seem a little remote, but it’s a Wow school in my opinion with great merit aid (to very strong students) and about 3000 students. It has an outstanding choral music program - one of the best in the US - and is a little more centrist ideologically, but still lotsof solid discussion. I’m very impressed by the president and what he and the faculty have accomplished there. Not terribly diverse ethnically- but no frats, etc. It’s a dry campus… but they describe it as damp… My D is going to Pomona, but St. Olaf with a great merit scholarship was her close second choice. It’s only about 40 minutes from Minneapolis. I also of course like the Claremont’s - although I wouldn’t describe any of them as safeties.</p>

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<p>Definitely not. It’s a very liberal place, not at all outdoorsy like Dartmouth, and certainly not as focused on Greek life/ECs as Princeton is on eating clubs or Dartmouth is on Greek life.</p>

<p>Holy Cross is extremely liberal, too, which I found surprising.</p>

<p>Wake, W&L, and W&M are all good suggestions. UConn could be another, and for a not-so-safe bet, Williams. Maybe Lafayette or Lehigh as safeties/matches, too.</p>

<p>Also: collegeguide.org is your go to site</p>

<p>Williams is liberal, too, but fairly tolerant. It is much smaller than the OP’s requirement, and not much easier to be admitted to. The FA is excellent.</p>

<p>sahp, This may be disregarding some of your son’s size and location criteria, but starting with "if you like the student body at Dartmouth/Princeton, then . . " I’d look at Williams, Amherst, Middlebury, Hamilton, Kenyon, Conn College, Cornell, Bowdoin, Colgate, Davidson.</p>

<p>I’m intrigued by your comment that Princeton (and, I assume, Dartmouth) would offer better aid than Cornell or other Northeast privates. My impression is that the need based aid formula is more or less the same among all selective privates.</p>

<p>“Looking for a more moderate to conservative leaning student body…”</p>

<p>What? you kid worried he’ll be tainted by liberals? Doesn’t he have enough belief in his convictions that he wouldn’t be worried about what the other students think? Do you think it’s possible he could find a school in which he’d be the ONLY conservative and then be a lonely outcast? Let’s use some common sense, even with a strongly liberal student body I bet there’d be at least 20% conservative kids with whom he’d be able to associate with. It’s a poor criteria in which to base school selection on.</p>

<p>FooMonChew-
The OP’s question is perfectly appropriate. If a person is looking for a school where they will feel comfortable, there is nothing wrong with that. A friend’s s transferred out of Tufts because his political leanings made him feel uncomfortable there. No need to ridicule a person for identifying what they feel is a priority to them.</p>

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<p>Dartmouth is probably way more liberal than you are giving it credit for, heavily Greek as far as may of the social events are concerned (although you can find your niche as an independent). I do not understand why you don’t think the money will work out for Tufts/Cornell when you think that it will for Dartmouth only like these schools only gives need based FA (in our experience there was not a big cost difference between Dartmouth and Tufts).</p>

<p>From a FA standpoint, it will be Princeton, who will have the most generous FA policies (but also a single digit admit rate)</p>

<p>Dartmouth, starting summer 2012 there will be no loans in the FA package for families making less than 100k with typical assets. Families with total income of less than $100,000 with typical assets will be awarded a scholarship which will cover the full cost of tuition. In addition, the initial financial aid award offered to these families will not require them to borrow money to pay for their Dartmouth education. The income threshold was increased from $75,000 last year.</p>

<p>[News</a> & Announcements](<a href=“Home | Financial Aid”>Home | Financial Aid)</p>

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<p>That’s not my experience. I’m curious what led to that conclusion?</p>

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<p>A few of my friends go there, and from what they tell me, the programming put on by the school is surprising for a Catholic school and was not what they were looking for. The teaching is secularized as well, which may or may not matter to some people.</p>

<p>Agree with Spirit a couple of pages back. If the West Coast can be considered, CMC comes the closest to the criteria cited. If you include the other colleges in the consortium you get to the 5,000 size, as well.</p>

<p>Check out the following site if you want college reviews from a conservative perspective:
[CollegeGuide.org</a> - Home](<a href=“http://www.collegeguide.org/]CollegeGuide.org”>http://www.collegeguide.org/)
[CollegeGuide.org</a> - Rating America’s Colleges](<a href=“http://www.collegeguide.org/itemdetail.aspx?item=486fb85a-5d15-4d1f-a8f5-5ce2804c3129&page=3]CollegeGuide.org”>http://www.collegeguide.org/itemdetail.aspx?item=486fb85a-5d15-4d1f-a8f5-5ce2804c3129&page=3)</p>

<p>I am responding to the OP’s request for information on Miami University. D1 is a recent '12 grad and D2 is current student and S is entering this fall as a first year. H and I lean more to the left, but felt it was important to expose our kids to both sides and let them make their own decisions based on their own knowledge, thoughts and experiences. We looked for colleges that would not be strong on either the right or left, but would be open and accepting to exchanging of ideas. We felt certain our kids would go on for post graduate degrees so we also wanted to keep costs affordable. We had concerns that Miami might be too conservative as it does have a more “right” leaning feel. Many of the Ohio students that attend Miami come from the southwestern portion of the state, which is very conservative politically. I spoke briefly to a Dean about this prior to D1’s decision. She acknowledged a student body that was perceived as more right, but that it wasn’t as off balance as one might first think. </p>

<p>After four years of Ds in Arts and Science departments, we have not found the university to be very engaged politically, which is a little disappointing, but does make for a happy student body. The students seem to be accepting of individual differences, but don’t necessarily want to flaunt them-if that makes any sense. S will be in the business school. We may find that there is more of a conservative bias there-not sure. Our hope for college is that there will be good dialogue with an exchange of ideas to broaden and/or confirm what they already knew when they stepped on campus as a first year. OP, it sounds like that is what you are looking for as well.</p>

<p>As far as a party school, hmmm. Miami was recently ranked as a school where students have the “most fun”. That is different from being a “party school”. They did have some trouble with a few fraternities and sororities three years ago with over the top behavior. That may be where the label got started. Are there parties? Yes, of course. Is there drinking at the parties? Yes, of course. Do people drink too much? Some, but certainly not most. Since the trouble three years ago, there is an increased emphasis at orientation on how specifically the university will deal with any infractions. </p>

<p>I just read this post to D1. She does not feel the “party school” label applies to Miami at all. She feels the students focus on getting their work done and then relaxing and having fun, which will involve getting together with friends. She agreed with all else that I had written here.</p>

<p>Scholarship money is awarded as stated on the website. This new scale is nice. miamiDAP had stated there were opportunities for upper class students to apply for departmental scholarships. I passed that info on to D2 who was awarded two new additional scholarships for the fall. The student has to be doing well to get that additional money though and must apply each year. Both Ds received some one-time scholarships when studying abroad as well, but you do have to apply.</p>

<p>The employment/post graduate acceptance success of D1 and her friends from Miami has been impressive. We can’t say enough good about our experiences so far. D1 is looking forward to a big city experience for grad school, but is hoping she can squeeze in a visit on move in day for S. She loved it at Miami. Another mom told me her D couldn’t bear to put the “MU alumni” bracket on her license plate after graduation as it hurt too much to know it was over. It’s the quiet Ohio gem.</p>

<p>Thanks wildwood330 for such a thought out response to my inquiry about Miami Ohio. One more area of concern is that as a state public are there issues with respect to budgets and cost control that other publics like PA, NJ, CA have recently faced? That is, are there larger class sizes or inability to get into certain classes due to cuts, or difficulties graduating within 4 years? The newly announced merit scholarships do seem to go up per year based on rising tuition costs.</p>

<p>sahp2kids- The Miami University average graduation rate is less than 4 years (3.7 years if I am correct) - something they are very proud of. Many of the students enter with quite a few college credits from AP courses and college in high school credits. D2 thought about finishing in 3 years, but we talked her out of it. We told her to enjoy her time. She is a double major with a minor and would have had to drop a major to finish early. D1 started at Miami prior to the recession and state cuts. At that time, I asked her about changes with budget cuts she stated she did not notice anything except she thought there wasn’t fresh spinach at all the salad bars! I kid you not, that was her response. </p>

<p>Large classes have not been an issue for my Ds at Miami. D1 had one large (approx. 100) science class her first semester, but it also had two small group labs each week. Honors classes are capped at 20. If a non honors class is full students can send a request to prof for a force add. Maybe it will be different with the school of business. I don’t know. I will find out this fall, but I would be surprised if more than one of son’s classes is large. Miami is quite proud of its “Dedication to Undergraduate Teaching” ranking in US News and World Report (only Princeton and Dartmouth out ranked them this year, last year only Princeton). I would assume class size is an important factor in determining that rank. Miami often feels like a small college, yet it has the benefits of a big university. My family is fortunate to have Miami U in Ohio.</p>

<p>Lots of kids from S’ school go to Miami (and OSU and OU) and quite a few to Denison too, as many parents work there.</p>

<p>Both have a somewhat preppy, more conservative rep. Denison is only 2K students, Miami probably more the size you want. Both have lovely campuses. Sailing is a stretch at either, it’d be lake. Denison is in terrific small town about 30 minutes from Columbus. Miami a little more remote.</p>

<p>Denison stopped allowing frats to live in houses a few years ago so the Greek scene isn’t what it was at one time.</p>

<p>Denison has a huge endowment and uses it to attract great students. Miami has some guaranteed merit for certain stats.</p>

<p>DePauw doesn’t meet the geo criteria and is heavily Greek (like 85%), but is seen as fairly conservative and also popular here. Also generous merit.</p>

<p>I don’t disagree, my S2 was very much interest in Dartmouth because of a relative…he liked miami of ohio, Hobart William Smith, and most of all Colby. Ohio was a no go because it was too far “south” for a Michigander but he did like the campus vibe.</p>

<p>OP: Not sure what the cutoff is for mid-Atlantic states in your search, but Villanova might be worth looking at. One of several excellent Catholic schools in suburban Philadelphia. Big party school, though. </p>

<p>One of the problems I have with vague categories like “liberal” and “conservative” is that there is so much variation within each. You cited some pretty “crunchy” colleges in the list of schools that weren’t a great fit for your son. They’re pretty far to the left of the spectrum. There are a LOT of schools in between those and the ones on the other end of the spectrum. E.g., Notre Dame and Brigham Young are both great “conservative” schools, but one caters to conservative Catholics and the other to Mormons. If you’re just looking for something that is more “centrist” in population, I think there are a lot of choices. FWIW, I find the Fiske Guides do a great job of fleshing out these issues, without stereotyping too much. It’s about fit after all.</p>

<p>P.S. Disregard those obnoxious tags. Some pubescent ■■■■■ apparently thinks he’s an online graffiti artist (“tagger”).</p>

<p>^ Politicians and others have conflated social/cultural conservatism with economic conservatism for their own purposes, but it does nothing to further clear and effective communication. It can be very confusing when some claim that school X, say Dartmouth, is “liberal” and others claim it is “conservative.” I think the reason for the confusion is that most students at a school like Dartmouth are liberal on the social/cultural issues and conservative on the economic issues. On the other hand, there may be some Catholic schools where most students are liberal on the economic issues and conservative on the social/cultural issues. Communication with regard to these topics could be more effective if a distinction were routinely made between social/cultural issues and economic issues.</p>

<p>Note that before WWII and the McCarthyism that followed, economic conservatism and social conservatism did not go together. As one example, the very economically liberal William Jennings Bryan was very religious and socially conservative (note his “Cross of Gold” speech and his participation in the Scopes trial). He was a very prominent politician of his era and was given the Democratic nomination for president on three different occasions around the turn of the 20th Century.</p>

<p>I would suggest at checking out any of the schools in DC…the students at all of the schools are politically active all over the spectrum, and because the schools are in such a special location, there is less of an emphasis on partying. There are still a lot of parties–but there is a lot else going on as well, so parties are not the sole focus of social life on these campuses.</p>