<p>go to Dartmouth? I know there's different types of people everywhere but what's the generalization you could make?</p>
<p>I've heard that most people are pretty conservative, and there are a lot of outdoorsy-types but I'm not sure. I'm curious as well.</p>
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<p>Hey katmandoo,</p>
<p>You're right about the part that there are a lot of outdoorsy-types here. I think Dartmouth fills that special niche in the Ivy League for people who are physically active, or at least somewhat interested in a bucolic lifestyle. If you're into stuff like XC skiing, or you're just tired of the city life, you'll love it here.</p>
<p>On paper, Dartmouth isn't conservative (an overwhelming number of us voted for Obama in the last election). But I can understand criticisms that make us out to be conservative, such as a Greek system that's not quite the most egalitarian installment in the world. I think someone pointed out earlier that there are a lot of preppy, topsider/polo shirt types here at Dartmouth, as well as a lot of people who aspire to be like those types. So there's definitely an "ickiness" factor involved. Hence, if you were to go to a place like Columbia, it would seem more diverse (but it may not be on paper).</p>
<p>Are there any artsy people?</p>
<p>We have a house full of Dartmouth freshmen right now. They are smart, outgoing, attractive, athletic, lively and like to party! Yes there are artsy types, we have a potential theater major among the econ and bio majors.</p>
<p>Yeah there are plenty of artsy kids but the overall culture has lots of types of people. Overall I would say fun-loving, laid back, happy go-lucky, love to travel, social, competitive with themselves - not their classmates, playful.</p>
<p>I like the sound of that!</p>
<p>I second slipper's comment that they are "competitive with themselves - not their classmates." </p>
<p>I asked my son where else a friend at D'mouth had applied, and he had no idea -- he said no one talks about that, or their SAT scores, or anything like that. They are there, they are friends, they are in totally different majors, and that's cool.</p>
<p>^People did talk about it a little bit, but only in the first week or so. At Dimensions and Orientation, asking why you chose Dartmouth is a common small-talk subject.</p>
<p>Since then, it has never come up.</p>
<p>I'm really surprised at the supposed stereotype about Dartmouth being "conservative." </p>
<p>I remember a couple years ago when I was applying to colleges and there was always this belief (that I had) about Dartmouth being conservative.</p>
<p>Uhhhhh well, having spent two years here, I'd say that that's far from the truth. There are probably more conservatives at Princeton/Harvard than at Dartmouth. I remember during the week of the presidential election, there were chalk scribblings all over campus that said "Vote Obama," "Vote Shaheen" and whatnot...all dont at around 5:00AM by the college dems. If it was just a matter of comparing participation in the college dems v. republicans, dems by far trump the latter. Most of my friends are pretty liberal, with a couple guys from Canada being the conservative ones (go figure). </p>
<p>So I wouldn't worry about the campus being conservative, because it really isn't. I think what made people think so was that The Dartmouth Review had a ridiculous amount of power back in the 70's/80's and it's kind of echoed over. </p>
<p>But yea. Just my 2 cents.</p>
<p>Make that '80s/early '90s. TDR wasn't formed until the early '80s. I think the main reason Dartmouth gets stereotyped as conservative is not just TDR - it's how it was (I think) the last Ivy to go co-ed, its original native mascot (which is now seen as bigoted for whatever reason), and the strong base of old-fashioned, WASP male alumni who kind of made it hard at times for Dartmouth to really change its ways radically or meaningfully. That's why even these days every now and then a controversy erupts about gender discrimination (especially when it comes to the Greeks), and sometimes students complain of alumni at sports events who only sing the male-centric version of the alma mater.</p>
<p>I remember when I decided to go to Dartmouth, an older friend of mine who'd graduated from another top-tier college in the northeast warned me of the conservative nature of Dartmouth. I thought it was very odd, since nothing I'd read about Dartmouth indicated it was still conservative. Conservative relative to other Ivies, probably, but that didn't mean much to me.</p>
<p>Now that I've been at Dartmouth for a while I definitely think this whole conservative thing is overblown. Current students mostly laugh at the controversies that erupt around these sorts of issues, the handful of radical liberals/conservatives who care excepted. If anything, Dartmouth students might be a little too apathetic about politics. It's the alumni and the vocal right/left who make Dartmouth seem more polarized than it really is. The current student body and faculty/administration are far from conservative - maybe even leaning a little too far left (as some wag observed, the DFP has a space on the Dartmouth website, but TDR does not).</p>
<p>^But those are only points refuting the stereotype that Dartmouth is conservative on paper. Like pretty much every single Ivy school though, Dartmouth is mostly liberal by political affiliation. However, it is the attitudes and trends of the student body that make people perceive us as conservative.</p>
<p>There is perhaps no other school in the Ivy League (aside from Princeton) with such a proliferation of Sperry Topsiders, North Face jackets, Uggs, Polos, and all that other stuff that would make you think that the school's part of some rich Connecticut suburb. You even said so yourself John: A lot of people here aspire to be these "preppy" types.</p>
<p>Go to Harvard, Yale, or even Columbia, and you'll notice that the attitudes/styles there are much more diverse - perhaps even cosmopolitan. There is much more diversity in student tastes at those schools - and a lot of people there aren't preppy, or put on this fratty show. Lots of urban types - you can't really say that for Dartmouth though.</p>
<p>The fraternities are another thing. I've spoken with people from Columbia, and they view the system we have as something that's far from egalitarian. Houses are mostly open for all to enjoy, and Dartmouth ends up with the happiest student body when all is said and done however, the concept of a Greek system is perhaps intrinsically unequal. The Greek houses here must reject people - and while I'm sure things are all fine for the freshmen who don't have to worry about these things, it's not so fun for the people who get dinged. I would venture out to say that although at least 50% of the people here absolutely love the school and could not imagine being anywhere else (and perhaps also shun the fact that they considered other colleges as high school seniors lol), a good number of people here (I'd say at least 10%) absolutely hate the school - the fact that they "have to live with the reputation that Dartmouth is not a serious school for serious academics, because people are more concerned about partying and drinking than they are about research and learning."
[quoted from a guy I know]
</p>
<p>Another thing to consider is that Princeton, which has a proliferation of exclusive eating clubs, also has one of the happiest student bodies in the Ivy League. Really, the only Ivy that can claim to be "happy" and "egalitarian" is Brown (but Brown is the lowest out of the 8 on the USNWR, so it's a tradeoff you must consider). People at Columbia, Harvard, and Cornell tend to be miserable lol.</p>
<p>Third point: preprofessionalism. Dartmouth is perhaps the most preprofessional school in the Ivy League (although, Penn proper would perhaps have something to say about that. Definitely Penn Wharton is filled with all those gunners though). This is perhaps a good thing for those who are interested in those types of endeavors, and preprofessionalism here is definitely fueled by Dartmouth's unparalleled alumni network (compare that to say - Columbia's, which is crap). If job security is what you're looking for, Dartmouth is perhaps the best school to find it.</p>
<p>The major drawback of course, is that academic graduate schools will probably be less likely to take you seriously (because our classes here are really not even close to as rigorous as Columbia's - because very few people will be willing to take more rigorous classes, perhaps too preoccupied with the Economics major or something). I think about 7% of the student body will go on to academic graduate schools - the rest off to banks, consulting firms, med school, law school, and the like. When you have a case that very few people are interested in learning for the sake of learning, that's definitely a case in favor of Dartmouth being conservative, in the academic sense. </p>
<p>So yes, the fraternity houses are full of politically-left students, and even most of our gunner prospective Investment Bankers worship Obama. If you do choose Dartmouth, you are perhaps 60% likely to fall in love with the school, but about 10% likely to hate waking up every day to the sight of the Green. The facts stand though - for all of its flaws, Dartmouth somehow turns up with the happiest students in the League. </p>
<p>Seriously consider everything on these threads, because you don't want to end up at a school that's not the right fit for you.</p>
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<p>I don't think conservative is the right word to use. Preppy, perhaps. You've put your finger on what I've felt was different about Harvard, Yale and Princeton when I visited friends there. The Ivy League in general is elitist, no doubt, but Dartmouth is just a whole different kind of preppy school. There is indeed a sort of cosmopolitanism there that's rather absent from Dartmouth - something I'd chalk up to its rural location, at least in part.</p>
<p>I'm not sure that the term "conservative" necessarily has much meaning in the academic sense, and I doubt that's what people think when they hear Dartmouth described as conservative. It's probably easier to describe Dartmouth as more of a rural, athletic, preppy LAC (maybe that's a bit redundant).</p>
<p>You make a good point about hating the school. While I would tentatively agree, I only know one or two people who seriously regretted choosing Dartmouth at any point - and even then they're pretty happy now. I think Dartmouth is big enough that there's a niche for everyone, and small enough that you can always find other new people to mix with. Many of my best friends are about as far from the preppy stereotype as could possibly be, and they're happy at Dartmouth.</p>
<p>Hmmm...I guess you're right about a few things. Some people might make the connection that preprofessionalism instills close-mindedness with academics, and being close-minded and averse to new ideas are perhaps negative attributes of stereotypically conservative folks (of course we all know that's not true, but people in general would associate close-mindedness with conservatism, so there). Penn is likely a far more preprofessional school than Dartmouth, but I wouldn't say it's more "conservative" (even with all the gunners at Penn, it does seem more diverse). </p>
<p>Also, preppiness instills a certain a conformity in any student body. And conformity -> conservative.</p>
<p>Indeed, all the Ivies are elitist, but the question is: Which is the most elitist of them all? From my experiences, I would argue that Princeton and Dartmouth are the most elitist, followed by Yale and Harvard (which have secret societies, but they aren't such a major part of campus life), then Penn and Cornell, with Columbia and Brown in the rear. The interesting part though is, with the exception of Brown, students tend to be happier the more elitist a school is. It's actually quite counterintuitive when you think about it.</p>
<p>Actually I went to Columbia before Dartmouth. Classes were not more rigorous at all. In fact classes were much worse in my opinion. HUGE, no access to profs, totally taught by T/As, etc. It was a research university. Dartmouth students ARE interested in learning for learning's sake. D has among the highest percentage of students studying abroad for their major and doing a thesis in the country. I found I had to work harder at Dartmouth. Professors just seemed to care much much more.</p>
<p>Columbia is more elite in a different way. People aren't as friendly and its elite in a more intense "im too cool to have fun" way. Same goes for Harvard. People at Dartmouth don't take themselves to seriously and tend to be far more happy go lucky than intense way.</p>
<p>As for the frats, no other Ivy has every party open to everyone. Harvard Finals clubs - good luck! Princeton (passes), Columbia (frats rarely have no brothers over), Cornell (totally Jappy, rich frats). You never see a BMW or Mercedes at Dartmouth, at Penn thwy are rampant. Also pretty much every frat lets in 99% of the people who rush. I was in a pretty active frat and during Rush I swear we dung like 2-3 people tops, and those guys 99% of the time ended up elsewhere. If you try even 1% you are in. Pledging barely exists compared to even Columbia frats pledge processes. </p>
<p>Dartmouth is not elitist at ALL. Its friendly, everyone is welcome everywhere.</p>
<p>Aerial I'm not sure if you are a Dartmouth student but I TOTALLY disagree with you. Dartmouth is IMO the most friendly open Ivy among all of them. I know - I went to another Ivy.</p>
<p>^^your ideas and stereotypes about conservatives are seriously mistaken</p>
<ol>
<li>close-minded people are found in equal numbers on either side, usually on the far left and right. wanting change does not mean open mindedness.</li>
<li>conservatism is associated with preppiness b/c of background. Conformity is largely what won obama the election & is equally as present on the liberal side--ironically, there's quite a bit of conforming to be nonconformists.</li>
</ol>
<p>I'd say dartmouth is more conservative than others because it is far from a city, but still extremely liberal, because it's a new england college.</p>
<p>slipper, you just made me want to go to dartmouth even more!! That's basically exactly what I want. ahh I am going to be pretty upset when I don't get in...</p>
<p>Yea Idk aerial...I've agreed with pretty much everything you've said on the forums except for the elitist part. That just doesn't make any sense.</p>
<p>And isn't true at all.</p>
<p>Hey slipper, really glad you posted. It's kind of a relief actually. I am a Dartmouth student, and I'm actually trying to do the exact opposite thing you did, so perhaps you can understand that my comments are biased (accurate, but biased). </p>
<p>I think nobody will dispute that Columbia (and the like) has more rigorous classes than Dartmouth. The level of the material in say, a mathematics or economics class is just on a much higher level. Yes, the teaching there is certainly, certainly not comparable to here, but that's neither here nor there. Ask any serious (as in, graduate school prospective) student here at Dartmouth this, and they will tell you that the classes there are better (in fact, I personally know a person who transferred over from Columbia, and he freely admits this fact). I blame the D-Plan partly for this. There's just no reasonable way you can cram a whole semester's worth of hardcore material in 10 weeks - that kind of stuff is perhaps better done slowly absorbed over the course of a 15 week term.</p>
<p>As for why the person transferred over here - it's because of what you said. He felt it was easier to make relationships with professors here, and he'd be right about that. He wasn't a standout at Columbia, and Dartmouth was much more personal to him. However, for those who can hack it, Columbia can be a great place - **only if you know you can hack it.</p>
<p>Also, Re. that post by dcd (I posted it on these threads somewhere) about "working harder" at Dartmouth. Harder does not necessarily mean better. The real metric is how much you get out of a course, rather than just doing work just for the sake of doing work.</p>
<p>Your comments about elitism are quite refreshing. I totally never saw it that way, but it makes a lot of sense. Really good stuff. Perhaps the idea of fraternities is elitist in nature, but you are definitely right that we're much more open than the stuff at the other Ivies. I'll admit, I visited Penn, and the frat parties there were mostly only open to brothers, women, and connected people. It was certainly pretty icky. I do have to point out though that rush can be pretty selective at certain houses - namely Sig Ep, AD, etc. However, if you're willing to expand your net during rush period, it's pretty much impossible to not get a house (that comes back to how willing you are to join any house).</p>
<p>And I pretty much agree with you with the bottom line - Dartmouth is the most open Ivy of them all. It has the happiest students. But it may not be the right fit for everyone - for example, people who are independent (and are looking for the Columbia type experience), or people who are workaholics and love studying (kind of weird, but also the Columbia type experience).</p>
<p>You did not just say Sig Ep.</p>