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<p>A recent study by researchers at the University of California, Irvine, found that a third of students surveyed said that they expected Bs just for attending lectures, and 40 percent said they deserved a B for completing the required reading.
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<p>I would say the fundamental problem is that there is an association of effort with achievement (the students in the article said this themselves). "If I work hard, why shouldn't I get an A?" </p>
<p>Effort has replaced quality in high school, so of course college students have the same mentality.</p>
<p>Of course they expect a B. Every other university in the country is doing it, how do they benefit from grade deflation and getting a 2.0? I'll tell you this - it isn't going to help them in the job market.</p>
<p>Does getting a B from a college known to have grade inflation help in the job market?</p>
<p>Most employers don't have enough knowledge about said colleges to know which are known for grade inflation or deflation unless they specifically recruit regionally and have a relationship with the college. This is the minority.</p>
<p>Well, I gotta tell ya, I don't know of many employers who ask to see your grades when they offer you a job. The expectation is that if you graduate, you did the work. There's a pretty big disconnect between academia and reality for most professions.</p>
<p>I wasn't asked about my grades when I interviewed for my job... they asked about my major and when I graduated, but never once a question about grades.</p>
<p>as far as the argument does effort warrent grades, I don't think it is... at least not all the time.. I sat next to a girl in one of my accounting classes who read every chapter, did every practice problem, every practice quiz, etc.. and for our exams, her grades were 12, 36, and 42. She obviously didn't get it.. so, to say that she deserved a B for failing every test she took, is outlandish (IMHO). I remember i got a 96 on my first test and she asked if I could help her study for the next one. I did... she just couldn't grasp the concepts. She failed and took it over again... barely passing the second time through. I don't know why she didn't go talk to the prof about it. </p>
<p>on the other hand, i had a physics professor who had a policy where if you didn't miss a class and you did all of your work, you were guaranteed a C. I don't know of anyone in my class that was getting 12's or 36's or 42's on their exams though. generally speaking, if you came to class and did the work you knew enough to get a C.</p>
<p>This should be no surprise. A college education costs an obscene amount of money. Students put themselves and/or their families in debt for years. There is a resulting expectation that it has to be 'worth it.' Leaving a college with a C average $100,000 in debt is not satisfactory. So I see a direct relationship between the cost of college and the expectations for high grades among its students.</p>
<p>I don't understand how anyone can expect a B for just showing up. I thought that grades were computed using the scores earned on essays, papers, labs, quizzes, exams, etc.? So if a student has a 90-plus average, then he or she can expect an A. How is the professor supposed to know a student has completed the required reading if the student's work doesn't reflect it?</p>
<p>This is caused by the fact that many of these kids got Bs in High School just for showing up-now they expect the same in college.</p>
<p>the quote is stupid..IMO...A student's work is graded..they get what they get</p>
<p>I ran into this so many times when I was teaching . . . "why did I get a C when I tried so hard??" Sorry, in my mind it's not appropriate to reward effort. I reward results. (Funny thing, my boss is much the same way!!)</p>
<p>I think student attitudes about rewarding effort is a result of the emphasis on "self-esteem"
in elementary and high schools. Everyone who shows up gets a medal/grade. </p>
<p>It's also the shift to students seeing themselves as consumers. I paid my tuition therefore I should get the grade I want. I often joke that the cure for our current budget woes is to buy into this consumer mentality . . . if you want As, your tuition is $50K but for $20K you can get Cs. Those with big bucks can buy their degrees without attending a single class!</p>
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I think student attitudes about rewarding effort is a result of the emphasis on "self-esteem" in elementary and high schools. Everyone who shows up gets a medal/grade.
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<p>I've never bought into this. When I was a kid and swam on a summer league team, everyone got a participation trophy at the awards banquet. <em>Trust me</em>, everyone over the age of six knew the difference between those and the real awards. And these were some pretty sheltered kids. I have trouble believing that any child who is not very young is clueless enough to not understand the difference between the token that everyone gets and the real recognition.</p>
<p>I think this comes more from general grade inflation. It also may come from students internalizing some weird distortion of the bootstrap myth (that anyone can get ahead if they only work hard).</p>
<p>I believe that achievement, not effort, should be determinative of a college grade. I do think that kids coming from a lot of high schools are surprised by college grading, though. In high school, many teachers grade homework; some actually grade it and others give full credit just for doing it (whether it's correct or not). Teachers give small quizzes that are graded. Participation is often graded. Final exams at my D's high school can count for no more than 20% of the grade. Kids are used to having the opportunity to get lots of A+ grades on little things that then pull up less than stellar major test grades. It's a shock to arrive at college and not be able to bolster your test grades by participating and doing your homework. I'd like to see teachers of junior and senior level college prep courses in high school start weaning the kids from the easy participation and homework grades and explain to them what college will really be like.</p>
<p>It is (I think) fairly well-known that Harvard is horribly guilty of this. Students coming into the school have won a real prize by getting in and anything less than an A has a tendency to push kids over a cliff. It would be my theory that this sense of entitlement at elite colleges continues into adulthood. My brother has young employees under him and he is completely frustrated with the work ethic and people basically asking for raises just for showing up! His response is you want a raise for doing your job? Show me you know more than just how to show up on time and doing the job you were hired to do. And that's the same as college. A is for outstanding work. C is for average. Just doing the job at hand is average. And the sooner we put this back into the mix, the sooner people will stop growing up to think they are entitled to more for doing less.</p>
<p>D's prep school give C for all work on time as assigned. Higher requires going above and beyond. BS has not had a 4.0 in two years.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, these kids take it in the teeth on internships, merit aid, scholarships, and college admissions.</p>
<p>“Some assert that they have never gotten a grade as low as this before.” - Professor Grossman</p>
<p>He's my Shakespeare's Sonnets professor this semester. Great. Hahaha.</p>
<p>I've had several professor at Maryland echo the "Do the job assigned and get a C. A's and B's require more" mentality. In my first 300-level English class, 2 student got A's (well one A and one A-) out of a class of almost 30. It felt really good considering his grading policy.</p>
<p>My son in high school is getting a reality check right now because he is the type of student teachers love to reward in the lower grades but the absolute test scores are beginning to count much heavier. now. In many schools, you can get a 100% for 25% or more of your grade just for DOING your homework. When you go to college, no one cares if you do your homework. It isn't a part of your grade at all. The homework is for YOU, as a learning gauge, not for the grade. Big difference. Class participation/behavior counts in the lower grades as well. In college, there is rarely a mark for that either. It often comes down to a couple of papers or exams and kids who got good grades for participation, homework and lots of quizzes are going to getting a big let down if their scores on the major exams are not that high when they do not have those other factors bring up the grade.</p>
<p>My oldest son's high school did not even count the final exams in the quarter grades. The semester grade was calculated by giving 80% weight to the two quarter grades and 20% to the final. So kids could do very well even bombing that final and mid year exam. It's a rude shock to find out your grades are based on your weak spot when you end up at college.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse, what state are you in? my kids school weighs the same w exams, quarters, semester.</p>
<p>to the general participants in this discussion-another factor to keep in mind is that getting into most colleges requires being a strong student to begin with. it is reasonable that students used to getting As in HS would continue to expect the same in college. I dont think grading has to happen on a curve but many places it does. is a grade an absolute reference or does it suffice to measure the work of the student in question in relation to the subject matter presented?</p>
<p>In point of fact, it is rare in the extreme for a Harvard student to graduate with a straight-A grade average. </p>
<p>(Alas, the original newspaper link has gone dead, but the relevant part of the article is quoted there, as I will now quote it here.) </p>
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