hey so I’m interested in Penn because I’m looking for a school with strong academics and a great social life too but the more I research the school the more negative things come up. I’d be perfectly happy going to a school with difficult academics but all the articles talking about bad mental health, student competition, and bad atmosphere have me worried. I just want to hear student’s opinion of life at Penn and whether or not you think Penn deserves all the bad press and just if you think the general student body if happy attending there. Thanks so much!
Is this bad press of unmoderated comments on various blogs? Cornell had a rash of student suicides a few years ago so stress in common in the upper echelons of colleges.
just in general. I’m really into doing my research for things like this so a lot of students that write on sites like college confidential or that are interviewed in videos about general college info
This video does a pretty good job of presenting the good and the bad:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMIrhvEcdYo
Obviously it’s hard to generalize, but this video crew interviews like 20 students in 5 minutes - it’s not bad. (But should be taken with a grain of salt, as my friends @Penn95 and @PennCAS2014 would say!)
Be open minded is the key to choose the right college to settle in. What you mentioned are happening in many top colleges. Example, look at MIT and their super-strong stem fields and mental health issues. Go dig deeper and you will see. If you are really concerned with the issues that happened at Penn, then you might as well stay away from all these highly competitive schools. One popular way to stay alive and be competitive is to know your own strongest field and go to the right program, do your own research and Not first blame the systems and take full responsibilities for your choices and decisions.
My brother just graduated Penn in the Huntsman program, and seemed liked he and his friends were pretty content there. They also drink a fair bit, so I don’t know if there’s any correlation there haha. While he was there, there was a shooting and a suicide. That’s the worst of what I know. As far as I know, most New England colleges are fairly elitist, same goes for Penn, especially Wharton.
The issue of Mental Heath is not exclusive to Penn, not even to just Ivy League Schools. This is a societal problem that we are hearing of more and more these days. All schools have pros and cons, unfortunately you have to dig a little to get at the real cons as no school wants to highlight their negatives. As for me, I will tell you that there is more good going on here at Penn than bad and I am very happy with my decision to attend.
@eew162018 agreed this is not just specific to Penn, other ivies that are known for not coddling students like Columbi and Cornell also get similar press.
Here is the deal about Penn. Students are not cutthroat against each other there is no bad atmosphere. What happens is that everybody is extreme;y driven and super competitive with themselves, and they want to excel in everything. Penn students are notorious for juggling difficult academics, a heavy extracurricular involvement on campus, maintaining an active social life and also being on top of looking for top internship and research opportunities for their summer. Some even work in for some companies in Philly during the semester and of course many have demanding research positions throughout the semester.
While this is not true for 100% of the Penn student body it is true for most and it is the unwritten standard that everyone strives towards. I think it is that silent pressure to excel in many different areas that stresses out some people. Penn is not for everyone. That said, Penn students are not nasty or cutthroat against each other, most are actually collaborative and friendly and very willing to help their peers.
Here’s a good article that expands on what @Penn95 was saying:
http://www.thedp.com/article/2017/09/jessica-li-we-need-some-chill
Essentially, many people at UPenn are all-around “maximizers” - meaning they want to maximize their academic, social, extra-curricular, and professional experiences. When you try to max out on all these fronts, it can be exhausting. Now imagine when many of your peers are doing the same thing. It’s not competition against one another but, on aggregate, it can lead to a pressure/anxiety-filled atmosphere.
In this vein, UPenn is a little different than some other top schools. I don’t think all-around maximization is as present at Brown, MIT, Yale, Chicago, Cal Tech, Harvard, Swarthmore, Johns Hopkins, etc. etc. IMO, this type of all-around maximization is found more at UPenn, Duke, Cornell, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Georgetown, etc.
Sometimes I feel very dismayed that experienced members here are not really trying to offer help to these college seekers. It may not be the mission here to confuse the young students when they are already under a lot of stress. Too much generalization is no direct benefits to them but instead giving them more unanswered questions which will then lead to more confusions. What is the so called maximizers? Are they all optimization driven students.? Are all Penn students came here with the only goal to maximize their school satisfaction subject to whatever possible constraints? Why are the constraints so plentiful that a collective of universities can make many students doing non-cooperatively maximization and who are these competitive maximizers? Or should we call them intelligent optimizers? Or because of these universities are so resources deficient that eventually cause all these students to become maximizers? Are these all true?
The variables to determine these outcomes can be some of these factors: the number of students on campus, the grades inflation/deflation, the types of programs offered on that particular campus( more graduate schools), the student/faculty ratios, the demanding atmospheres due to hundreds of self-driven students etc. Many factors can contribute to the unique setting of each university. Shall we give these students the truth nothing but the truth.
-sign off
@Cue7 Yup, Stanford is also similar in that way in that the culture pushes students to juggle many different things while seemingly keeping their cool. Hence the famous Stanford duck syndrome, which is similar to the so-called Penn face.
@Penn95 - yes, Stanford is that way, but on serious steroids. At Stanford, you’re more likely to meet a serious math student who also plays football at an NFL level. You don’t have that level of combined quality at Penn, Cornell, etc.
Also, @soundfirst5 - you want help and advice for the OP? Here it is:
To succeed and be happy at UPenn, it’s helpful to do the following:
- Know yourself and what your interests/passions are (expand out, but always be mindful of your home base)
- Block out the white noise of what other people are doing
- Winnow down your interests at the start, and expand out cautiously
- Be proactive and seek out opportunities of interest aggressively - don't expect to be coddled
- Have a pre-existing reservoir of resilience, and be ready for setbacks/failures
Most students who have all of that can really thrive at UPenn. Many students don’t have those qualities, though, and it is possible that struggles will arise.
(Note, I would NOT offer the same counsel for a student starting at, say, Vassar, or Haverford, where there might be a bit more spoon-feeding going on with the undergrads, and the smaller scale makes for a very different environment.)
Are you sure @Cue7? Penn had four baseball players taken this past June in the Major League Baseball Draft, two of them were underclassmen.
Yup @nhparent9 - I’m sure. Read my statement above - I said it was “more likely” that you’d meet the the math savant/future nfl quarterback at Stanford than Penn or Cornell.
That statement holds water - look at any list of Olympians, NFL players, MLB players, Marshall Scholars, Rhodes Scholars, whatever… Stanford plays at another level. It’s like what you see at UPenn or Cornell, but on steroids.
I thought the conversation was about culture and high level kids juggling many things at a high level. All I’m saying is that it does occur at Penn and that Stanford doesn’t have the exclusive on it. There is no doubt that there is a higher concentration of high level athletes at Stanford than at Penn, no question there is. If you’re a highest level athlete and a top student, Stanford is an outstanding option that many choose.
You can find this kind of person at both Stanford and Penn, but I agree you are quite more likely to do so at Stanford compared to Penn. Penn on steroids is a very accurate description for Stanford. Penn is the most similar ivy to Stanford, but obviously it plays at a slightly lower level than Stanford in practically all fields.
What if Stanford decides not to give out athletic scholarships, will that make any differences?
@nhparent9 - yes, the conversation was about culture and students juggling many things. I created a differentiation between some schools (like Penn and Cornell) - which tend to attract all-around “maximizers” and other schools (MIT, Swarthmore, etc.) which tend to draw students who focus more on a couple - rather than many - areas.
Now, Stanford is certainly more on the “all-around maximizer” side of the spectrum. Also, while it doesn’t have an “exclusive” on this, it’s perhaps the most intense, high-flying example of this mindset. Yes, you see it at UPenn, Cornell, NU, etc., but Stanford is - for good or bad - the gold standard here.
Also, @Penn95 - I think it’s too generous to say that Penn plays at a “slightly lower level” than Stanford here. In its embodiment of the “all-around maximizer” archetype, Stanford is miles ahead of virtually everywhere else. Looked at through almost any lens and on aggregate - e.g. most number of Intel Science Winners AND # of olympians, most rhodes scholars AND NFL players - whatever - there isn’t really any other school that comes close on the “all-around” model. Holder of maybe the world’s best economics department, and best engineering school, and best college soccer program, etc. etc. The array of pre-eminent talent there is staggering.
I say this with respect to UPenn, of course - it’s just that Stanford has really established some distance here on this model of education. Also, remember, Stanford has a higher concentrated pool of talent - UPenn’s undergrad is 40% larger than Stanford’s, but not as accomplished across so many of these areas. So to say a “slightly lower level” than Stanford isn’t accurate, in my books.
@eew162018 “the articles talking about bad mental health, student competition, and bad atmosphere have me worried.”
The students strongly tend to be cooperative with one another, not competitive. The social environment punishes cutthroat behavior.
The students do tend to be “maximizers” who push themselves to the limit. They are strong on academics, active in extracurriculars, and many have more than one major or a major and a minor. Penn is a challenging school, and sometimes students get out over their skis. That can be a challenge to the students mental health, and students and their parents need to respond properly and keep thing in perspective.
Penn is not for everyone. D1 is a senior. She will tell you that she has had a great experience at Penn, and she is also glad that it is almost over. At times she is a bit resentful about how hard it has pushed her, but she also recognizes that she knows more because of it, and that was a huge benefit when she was looking for a job.
To echo what @Much2learn said - I’ve heard many students say UPenn undergrad will push you in MANY ways - not just academics. There are other top schools (Swarthmore, Vassar, MIT, Brown, Johns Hopkins and on and on…) where the extra-curricular life, focus on post-college life, focus on sports, etc. are less intense.
At UPenn, sometimes, students drive themselves hard on so many fronts - academic, extra-curricular, social, professional, athletic - that it can become exhausting. It’s rare for students to compete against one another, but if you’re part of a frat that has obligations/activities, taking a full course load, committed to the sprint football team, and a leader of two student clubs, it’s going to add up.
There are LOTS more people who fit the above description at UPenn then there are at Swarthmore, Vassar, etc.