<p>hey there invisible. For me, the frustrating part is having a fairly developed portfolio but not really getting a chance to present it (perhaps it is the will of a Higher Power). See, SAIC really appreciated my work from what I gathered and they are a 'pure' fine arts school. Fine art is really the only area of art that I am proficient in currently. Nevertheless, some of my friends on here including A (pocketdictionary) suggested I check out RISD. Anyhoo, doesn't seem like I can change things now. Not to sound too stoic, but wherever my fate takes me, that is where I think I will go.</p>
<p>College-ish, i totally feel you... i'm also a bit hesitant about commiting to an art school because i'm also fairly gifted in academics... well also a bit of family pressure too... but anyway, i'm really unsure and must do some soul searching this summer!!</p>
<p>fabre, same with my son. He decided to get a BA degree and is greatly enjoying both his art studio courses and his other more academic courses, including art history. He's thinking about getting post graduate degree in architecture (among other ideas). Doing it this way will undoubtedly result in more time spent in school (and more expense) but he feels -- and I agree -- that he will benefit in many ways from getting that general liberal arts degree. </p>
<p>Please understand I'm not passing judgment on people who decide to go to art and/or design schools. I work in retailing and know a great many talented and well remunerated designers who went to FIT and Parsons. You just have to do what's right for you.</p>
<p>AIGA & NASAD do not recognize a 4yr. liberal arts degree in art or design as adequate </p>
<hr>
<p>Here is an interesting article explaining the benefits of a BFA over a BA or BS for design students.</p>
<p>This is on a site sponsored by NASAD.</p>
<p>" The AIGA and NASAD do not recognize a four year liberal arts degree in art or design as adequate preparation for entry as a graphic design profession."</p>
<p>FYI,
Students at art schools are required to take liberal arts courses. In fact my D will be getting a minor in art history at Pratt, in conjunction with her BFA in Communication Design. She is also REQUIRED to take courses in the social sciences, physical sciences, english and art history and other liberal arts electives. Each semester she has to take a minimum of 17 credits to fulfill these requirements.</p>
<p>Cama</p>
<p>fabre, </p>
<p>It is good to know that I am not entirely by myself. But I also wish nobody had to go through this. Perhaps being involved in some careers/fields is just naturally more frustrating. I dunno.</p>
<p>
[quote]
posted by Cama
" The AIGA and NASAD do not recognize a four year liberal arts degree in art or design as adequate preparation for entry as a graphic design profession."
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Cama, that is a good point and if I do art as one of my foci, then the least I would expect is a BFA. Therefore, I am interested in the School of Art at Wustl and the School of the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston both of which offer the possibility of dual degrees (BFA + BA/BS). I feel either school would be a decent back up for SAIC or RISD, since I am primarily interested in fine art and not design. If I wanted to major in a design related field, then RISD or Pratt or any of the other strong in design schools would be fine and I'd probably get a job in my field and all would be well. So, I guess it just depends on what I want to do and what areas of study I am attracted to and/or are more important to me.</p>
<p>One other point to consider when deciding between an art/design school or a "full-service" college is who your fellow students will be. If you go for specialization, then all of your cohort will also be involved in the same field, meaning art/design 24/7. If you go for liberal arts, then your friends will be artists and scientists and historians etc. Neither is better than the other, just different. </p>
<p>It's important to think about this as kids learn so much from other kids. Do you want the focus to be primarily visual or visual plus academic?</p>
<p>Momrath,
Again the art schools do have academics as well so they are getting "academics plus". I think the choice is between either a stronger visual arts program at an art school or a stronger liberal arts program within a university. Truthfully I do not think you can have both if you really compare apples to apples. Also since I am familiar with Pratt they also have a strong library science program as well as a creative writing program so you are exposed to students in these departments as well. Granted you won't find any Physics majors but I know from my S's experience at a large university you tend to end up being friendly with kids within your department.</p>
<p>Another factor besides academics which determines what kids are exposed to is where the school is located especially for art students. The exposure from being in a major city for an art student in my opinion can not compare to a school in a rural or subruban setting no matter if they are at an art school or a university. Art students which have the advantage of having their classes meet at major musems and the connections to industry for jobs and internships during the school year is invaluable.</p>
<p>If I may add my two cents, I am not sure that the liberal arts courses at stand alone art schools are necessarily weaker than that found at universities. Universities may, however, offer more choices in liberal arts than that of stand alone art schools. There are some other differences as well:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>At universities with strong art programs, you generally are required to take more liberal arts courses that that of stand alone art schools. This provides "weaker" training in the visual arts since you take less courses. The rule of thumb is that with stand alone art programs, you take about 75% of your classes in visual arts and 25% in liberal arts. Art students can take some more liberal arts if they choose however. At universities and LACs, you generally take between 50% (LAC) to 70% of your courses in visual arts.</p></li>
<li><p>Liberal arts courses at stand alone art schools may be more geared to visual arts. For example, you would probably have some form of anatomy at all schools,but with stand alone art schools, this course might be more focused on anatomical drawing and less on function. </p></li>
<li><p>You might a greater variety of kids with a greater variety of majors at a university vs. a stand alone art school. Lets face it, most of the students at a stand alone art school are very "artsy." This is not necessarily bad,but it is different from that found in universities.</p></li>
<li><p>Universities tend to have more extracurricular stuff such as stronger sports teams, better gyms, more "Named" concerts (due to their larger size and bigger draw of students) etc. This is NOT to say that stand alone art schools don't have a variety of extracurricular activities and clubs because they do. However, they usually have less in this area than that of a bigger university. </p></li>
<li><p>Obviously, if you aren't sure about majoring in art, universities allow for a lot of non artistic majors that aren't available in stand alone art programs.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>
[quote]
posted by cama </p>
<p>Another factor besides academics which determines what kids are exposed to is where the school is located especially for art students. The exposure from being in a major city for an art student in my opinion can not compare to a school in a rural or subruban setting no matter if they are at an art school or a university. Art students which have the advantage of having their classes meet at major musems and the connections to industry for jobs and internships during the school year is invaluable.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Excellent point.</p>
<p>The thing that stood out the most to me about SAIC was its location. The surroundings (lots of buildings), the people (very trendy)-- the atmosphere basically. When we finished the school tour, I even mentioned to some of the people that I enjoyed the outside almost more than I did the in.</p>
<p>heh... I guess I just like Chicago ;p</p>
<p>People seem to be picking up that I am anti-art school. Im not. My husband who is one of the most knowledgeable and intelligent people I know went to art school. (SFAI back in the 70s when it was very influential.) My point is that kids can do well -- socially, academically and in their future career -- in either environment and that they should consider the pluses and minuses. Being surrounded by kids who eat, drink and breath art 24 hours a day may be a plus or may be a minus. For my son, it would have been a minus.</p>
<p>On another thread someone mentioned that some art departments tend more toward theory than process. Again, for some this is a plus, some a minus. Its a good question to ask.</p>
<p>And lastly, I wouldnt generalize that colleges located in remote areas dont have access to museum opportunities. Williams which has three serious museums on or near campus has placed so many curators in major museums throughout the country that theyre known as the Williams mafia. This is a unique situation, but it shouldnt be overlooked.</p>
<p>Great Discussion....
Taxguy, Collegeish, and Momrath... it is true that major universities have more extracurricula "stuff", however at the art schools I think they have more speakers and extracurricula for the artist. For example.. notable designers film makers, illustrators often speak at art schools, thus again connections and networking MIGHT be more accessable. </p>
<p>Again as far as location for any art school... if you are in a metro area you already get the extracurricula activities associated with such an environment. If you are a basketball fan and you are at school in NYC go to the Garden (Madison Square Garden) to see the game in person. If you enjoy film go to the Chelsea film festival etc. As an art student you also get discounts to many art musems requiring an entrance fee, such as the new Moma, Guggenheim etc.
For Art History there is no doubt that Williams is tops. Specifically though for art and Design students that plan to work in the design field or any other commercial art field my money is on a stand alone art school in a metro area.</p>
<p>Just my opinion.</p>
<p>Cama</p>
<p>I concur with you, Cama, up to a point. I think that in principle some of the university-based programs can be quite excellent especially if they offer a full studio program. That's why my daughter explored them (e.g., CMU, Syracuse, BU) before deciding on a stand-alone art school.</p>
<p>I also suspect that if there were any statistics on the subject, we'd find that in terms of actual numbers far more working artists/designers got their undergrad training in schools that were not stand-alone art schools. Students who attended stand alone art schools might, in general, have an advantage on the job market at least initially. However, I know of some pretty promising young artists who have come out of places like Kalamazoo College -- e.g., this one, who is a family friend: <a href="http://www.jetartworks.com/bossen_images.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.jetartworks.com/bossen_images.html</a>.</p>
<p>We also need to acknowledge that the range of skills that allow someone to work in design/art as an industry is quite broad and goes well beyond the ability to design/produce art. Sometimes would-be artists/designers begin in high school to de-emphasize science and math, for example, background that can really be relevant to their future careers.</p>
<p>Further, if a student gets a fine college education at any type of college but needs a "credential" and further specialized training in art or design, there's always the MFA.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Amen, learning how to think analytically and communicate verbally, both orally and in writing, are critical skills for success in ANY business. I work in consumer products and often interact with design types who havent a clue how to string together a simple sentence. They are wonderfully creative, but dont seem to understand that selling ideas is very much part of seeing them implemented.</p>
<p>Wow.. This is such a great discussion; I really wish I'd been in it one year ago.</p>
<p>I went through the exact same thing with my school choice... Sure, I wanted to be an artist, but by simply applying to a school where I would get in without any mention of my academics, I somehow felt like I was forgetting a huge part of myself.</p>
<p>I am not a super academic person personality-wise, but I have a competetive streak and a love for science that led me to take a bunch of APs and all of that. I ended up something like 8/480 and had pretty much the best grades in all of my classes. </p>
<p>I think anything valuable I could say on this topic has already been said. I dont mean that in a bad way, just that everyone has said so many useful things.</p>
<p>My only extra input from experience is that you should keep in mind that there are schools like CMU, which have an art school within a highly academic university, there are schools like RISD and The Museum School, which double-up with competetive colleges and swap students with them (Brown and Tufts, respectively), and there are schools like Pratt and SCAD, which have a few courses of their own, which may or may not be as well-taught and well-tended-to as the others. We all know the stereotypes, but I cannot say I know anything of Pratts academics aside from what my father says about them, and he went to college over 20 yrs ago.</p>
<p>At the time, at the beginning of the process, I was mostly considering the partnering schools thing as the best way to go, completely dismissing CMU. I think I was just on a bit of an ego trip to be honest; I had it drilled in my head that if all of my friends were going to ivies, if I had better grades than them, then thats where I should belong too... which is, of course, not the truth at all. You just have to find the school thats right for you.</p>
<p>All I can say about RISD is that it is not too difficult to transfer for soph yr (I know several people who applied to transfer from other universities, all of whom were excepted), but that all of them also had to take a summer course there to "make up for lost time" basically, which cost quite a bit of money. Also, if you choose to go to Brown, it is reportedly very difficult to get into classes at RISD; you get placed dead last on registration lists. I'm not sure if it is the same the other way around.</p>
<p>Still, RISD is a good school. If you go (anywhere) for art, you have to get used to people thinking you are a non academic type, you know, in the "outside world." I used to cringe a bit when people outside of Pittsburgh asked me my major (sympathetic smile to follow), but now I know better. Just love your school, love where you are, and what you are doing. Do whats best for you, not for what other people may think... and do consider CMU. </p>
<p>I was "forced" to go here due to financial disasters way to complicated to explain here (CMU gives a lot of scholarships and aid), and it was one of the best things that ever happened to me. I'm an art major, but most of my friends are in chemistry and computer science and economics and music andddd everything else you could imagine, and I absolutely love it. Its an excellent school, with great opportunities to step out of your major, which CMU rather cheesily refers to as the "DaVinci Effect." It is not too much more difficult, for example, to get a BHA or a BSA degree in four years time, and collaborations between different majors is very much encouraged. It's also, incidentally, one of the few art schools left standing that havent begun steering their dear little artists towards design... SVA being another, and perhaps a few (MICA?) that I am not yet aware of.</p>