Student Satisfaction Levels at Swat

<p>It shows that out of a $100,000,000 operating budget only about half of it goes to what might broadly be considered academic purposes.</p>

<p>How about Haverford, Williams, Amherst, F & M, and/or Harvard?</p>

<p>I don't have even 5 minutes this week to compare budgets of colleges, but I do wonder what the usual allocations are to administration vs other costs. Also don't know college budget standards.</p>

<p>john: what are the other costs mentioned?</p>

<p>Here's a fairly accessible article from the Wesleyan student newspaper which covers roughly the same period of time:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.wesleyan.edu/argus/archives/2004.11.09/dateyear/n2.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.wesleyan.edu/argus/archives/2004.11.09/dateyear/n2.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>It shows that after you subtract financial aid ($25m at Wesleyan vs. $16m at Swat) the budgets of the two schools are remarkably similar even though Wesleyan is about twice the size of Swarthmore. The biggest difference is that more of Wesleyan's budget (56%) goes directly to support the academic enterprise than Swat's (50%.)</p>

<p>What the article does not discuss is that Wesleyan also manages to operate its science laboratories 24 hours a day 365 days a week (Swarthmore faculty can only do research when classes are suspended), qualifying its science faculty for about $10m a year in state and NSF supported research, which in turn allows its undergraduates to produce the highest number <em>and</em> proportion of student co-authored scientific journal articles in the country; to publish a university press; and, to host a year-long, residential center for visitng scholars in the humanities. All on what Swarthmore spends for just half the number of undergraduates. </p>

<p>The article goes on to discuss long-term concerns regarding the size of the endowment, which will be the focus of future fund-raising.</p>

<p>JohnWesley: I think you are comparing apples to oranges on budgets. It's easy to do because the budgeting process uses different categories than the Financial Reporting categories. I don't think the figure you used for Wesleyan was the full operating budget.</p>

<p>Below are the Operating Expense lists from the 2003/04 Year End Financial Reports from both Swarthmore and Wesleyan. I didn't see 2004/05 posted for Wesleyan yet. As you can see, Wesleyan's overall operating expense was much larger than Swat's ($160k to $100k) as you would expect with double the student size.</p>

<p>The reporting categories are roughly comparable. These seem to be more or less standardized in college financial reporting, but there's wide variation in what is lumped into each slot. I have not seen any case where it is possible to directly compare specific line items from school to school with any confidence that you are actually comparing the same basket of apples.</p>

<p>Instruction: Direct departmental expenses. Faculty and staff wages and benefits are the biggie.</p>

<p>Academic Support: This includes the library expense plus Academic Deans, Provost, etc. Wesleyan calls this line item "Libraries", so they are probably lumping some of the other support functions into "Instruction".</p>

<p>Research/public service: Self-explanatory. At Swat, this is mostly stipends paid to to students and associated program costs.</p>

<p>Student Services: Health Center, Psych Services, Career Counseling, Study Abroad counseling, and so on and so forth. This may include Campus Security; I'm not sure.</p>

<p>Institutional Support: This includes everything to keep the place running. Building and Grounds. Maintenance. Interest payments on debt incurred building new buildings. Utilities. Taxes. Accounting Office. Payroll Office. Legal fees. Supplies. You name it. This item is going to vary a lot depending on the scope of maintenance projects and the debt on new buildings. For example, this line item at Swat included $8 million of interest repayment on the cost of three major new building projects.</p>

<p>Auxilliary Actitivies: This is mostly the cost of food services and renting dorm rooms to students, plus other stuff like operating a bookstore. At Swat, it may also include the cost of operating the Arboreteum Office, the Lang Center for Social Responsibility, costs associated with renting athletic fields to summer sports camps, etc.</p>

<p>Swarthmore</p>

<p>Instruction 34,570
Academic support 11,931
Research and public service 4,213
Student services 10,002
Institutional support 21,771
Auxiliary activities 17,374</p>

<p>Total expenses 99,861</p>

<p><a href="http://www.wesleyan.edu/finance/financeDept/reporting/AFP03_04/finResult.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.wesleyan.edu/finance/financeDept/reporting/AFP03_04/finResult.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Wesleyan</p>

<p>Instruction 74,172
Libraries 9,992 (Swat inc. this in "academic support")
Student services 9,248
Institutional support 17,130
Other 1,726 933
Auxiliary activities 36,984
Research 10,505</p>

<p>Total expenditures 159,757</p>

<p>I’m not sure if ID is fishing for trouble with his comments regarding HC, but he opened up a can in my book :) . Before that, ID may indeed have “Oedipal” issues JW, but I think his fixation with endowments is more “Freudian”, no?</p>

<p>1st, I find it a little troubling the import on bigger, luxury and more on this thread. I believe endowments per student at the top 10 LACs have grown disproportionate to inflation in the last decade but tuition expenses still climbed more so. I always thought that the purpose of a solid college education is to educate. However, many colleges seem to be in a wasteful “arms race” of kinds as exemplified in some of ID’s "quality" measures. I don’t believe having dorms that can be mistaken for high end condos or extravagant gardens is what makes for a worthy education. These things don’t help many of the qualified students who could have gone to SC but could not afford to do so because the cash was spent elsewhere.</p>

<p>Also, I don’t think it sets a good example for college students to be saturated with the notion that the main way to gauge the qualities of something is based on the amount of money spent. At a certain level (the top ten lacs), pouring more money into something doesn’t proportionally make for a better college education as it doesn’t make for better public policy, in general. </p>

<p>HC doesn’t need to have Art History, or a pool, or many other things because they are all available at BMC which is less than 10 minutes away by the Blue Bus. Being redundant is wasteful, even though it may impress some parents fixated on quantity. One reason why the value proposition of HC is underestimated by US News, simple spending comparisons and by many people is that such calculations neglect the tremendous opportunities and synergies available at BMC. If HC was in the middle of “Deliverance” MA, as is Williams, and away from Philly and BMC, then I would say that educational resources at HC would not be comparable to the best LACs… but location is key and that is what makes HC competitive with such schools. The only thing HC is weak on educationally is performing arts but is actively raising capital for that.</p>

<p>Finally, there is much to be said about the campus of HC which has an effortless beauty and simple elegance. I know my brother would trade Tarble for the Duck Pond in a heartbeat. As it demonstrates the subjectivity of taste, I also would never dream of comparing the beauty of the 2 campuses. Many aspects of SC are quite nice such as the amphitheater, but other areas seemed to be more than fussy or downright ugly, like Dupont and the very loud-looking garden of yellow and purple leafed plants.</p>

<p>Dupont's gone. Swallowed up by the new Science Center, with amenities like the new Science Center Sushi Bar...Don't tell me HC doesn't have a sushi bar? <g></g></p>

<p>BTW, I think you misquoted me. I've never recommended choosing a college based solely on endowment. I recommend finding a range of colleges that fit. If, at that point, you are accepted into two or more colleges that fit equally well and can't decide, consider the one with the larger per student endowment. After all, given a choice between two equally attractive options, might as well go to the school with the sushi bar and swimming pool, right?</p>

<p>Erm, this fascinating discussion of endowment notwithstanding, does the original poster have a more specific question about student satisfaction at swat that hasn't already been covered? How bout that phoenix?</p>

<p>John, the Wesleyan forums are calling your name.
Stop getting into arguements with the swatties :-p.
Wes, swatty, amherst, williams, pomona, haverford, etc are all awesome schools.
I have a friend who turned down swatty to go to haverford, and i know people have done the opposite.
The education at the top LAC's is comparable. To be honest, I don't think there's any real difference. The only difference is in perception.
Also, I dislike the 'my campus is prettier than your campus' arguement, I turned down colgate and one of my main reasons was that the info session focused more on the beauty of the landscaping and buildings (which seemed to lack character in my opinion), than on the academics offered. I'm going to college to study and learn, learn about my major/other interesting tidbits and learn about myself. Sure there will be some socializing and stuff, but the aesthetics of the campus will not make or break my experience for me.
It's not where you are, it's who you're there with which makes time spent special.
In the end, where you go to college (talking about top lacs and others) ends up being more about who you are than the endowments, rankings, etc.
However, I do wish that I had applied to swarthmore, especially after i got a letter from them telling me to complete my application. It would have been nice to get another rejection :-P</p>

<p>Hmm, has anyone on here seen this link
<a href="http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf&lt;/a>
It lists the top three graduate programs in law, business, and medicine and the % of students from the college's graduating class gaining admittance and going there. With a study one has to keep in mind some other things that come into play. For example, wesleyan does have a disadvantage in this since it has more students which results in a lower %, even though the same or more students would have gained admittance. Also many students in science stay for a 5th year to get a masters in their major, which this study does not take into account. And finally, I know schools like wesleyan and swarthmore are very into community mobilization, and this study does not take into acount the students who decide to go into the peace corps and programs such as teach for america. Regardless the schools do well, and I'm sure that anyone with any real knowledge of the top lacs would say that the education offered at swatty, wes, pomona, haverford, williams, amherst, etc are comparable and the students are each qualified and earned their grades. It's funny though how wesleyan's compared to williams and amherst in terms of the little three, when it's most similar to swarthmore in terms of demographic.</p>

<p>Wow, that was crazy long!</p>

<p>
[quote]
If HC was in the middle of “Deliverance” MA, as is Williams...

[/quote]
Cheap shot. Williams, like Middlebury, Dartmouth, Carleton, Grinnell, Colgate, and Washington & Lee, is a proud member of the "who NEEDS friggin' STARBUCKS anyway ?!?" league</p>

<p>Yea, I think I could definitely sense the OP's eyes glazing over.:p</p>