Students'/Alums' Take on Swarthmore

<p>I ran across a survey page wherein student's reviewed their schools and checked out the Swarthmore entry. One of the questions they ask is, given the opportunity to go to a different school, would you? 40% of respondents (out of 55 total surveys taken) said they would. I think it's interesting to see how this compares to other top liberal arts colleges:</p>

<p>Amherst: 11%
Williams: 36%
Wellesley: 37%
Carleton: 9%
Middlebury: 33%
Pomona: 11%
Bowdoin: 12%
Davidson: 17%</p>

<p>Average: 23%</p>

<p>So, it seems from this data that Swarthmore leads the pack in student dissatisfaction, and is ahead of the average by a very wide margin. I would put a link to the site in question, but it seems College Confidential doesn't want its competitors' names mentioned. That's fine; I think most of us know the site in question anyway. The point isn't the site, but how this data shakes out and what it implies for Swarthmore. I guess it says most of all that Swarthmore is what it is, and a lot of people who end up there probably should have gone somewhere else. It's hard to foresee everything about a college when you're in high school, and some of the other top liberal arts colleges would seem to have more general appeal.</p>

<p>This is one of those scientific polls, right? We all know the site you are talking about where digruntled students post multiple "reviews" under ficticious names.</p>

<p>There is real survey data on this question. The COFHE consortium survey instruments includes student satisfaction questions in all of their questionnaires. The won't give you data for specific schools, but Swarthmore Institutional Research would probably tell you where Swarthmore ranks among the 31 COFHE schools if you stopped by their office.</p>

<p>And, on another front. It sounds like you are really, really unhappy at Swarthmore. Why don't you transfer to somewhere that would better match your needs?</p>

<p>
[quote]
This is one of those scientific polls, right? We all know the site you are talking about where digruntled students post multiple "reviews" under ficticious names.

[/quote]

Do I have to point out why this is a fallacious argument? If it were just disgruntled students posting multiple reviews under false names, then all the schools should show the same rate of dissatisfaction (by the way, is your real name "interesteddad?" should I disregard everything you say because it isn't?). But, they don't. Swarthmore is ahead of them all, and any bias or falsification of the reviews on the part of so-called "disgruntled reviewers" should apply to all of the schools. Besides which, a majority of people (60%) did say they'd return to Swarthmore, just like a majority of people at all the schools said they'd return. So, again, your argument fails. Whether or not a bias is present, Swarthmore still outranks all the other top liberal arts schools in student dissatisfaction.</p>

<p>
[quote]
There is real survey data on this question. The COFHE consortium survey instruments includes student satisfaction questions in all of their questionnaires. The won't give you data for specific schools, but Swarthmore Institutional Research would probably tell you where Swarthmore ranks among the 31 COFHE schools if you stopped by their office.

[/quote]

This is impressive. You've managed to cite a survey without actually citing anything or showing anything. Either put up the numbers and show how it compares to other top liberal arts schools or don't waste our time with bogus references.</p>

<p>
[quote]
And, on another front. It sounds like you are really, really unhappy at Swarthmore. Why don't you transfer to somewhere that would better match your needs?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>First, there's a non-zero probability that I'm an alum and not a current student. Second, what you're saying is yet again an absurd argument, because transferring is not as simple as willing it to happen. Sometimes it's just not logistically possible or would just make things worse, especially if you've made it to, say, your junior year before you've accepted that Swarthmore isn't as rosy as the Dean Bond garden would have you believe.</p>

<p>Actually there are a large number of college students who transfer. Sometimes students who are at smaller colleges want larger schools and vice versa. One of my children successfully transferred schools after freshman year and it was a great choice. </p>

<p>My child who is at Swarthmore has not wanted to transfer. I have seen some very positive things about Swarthmore, however, it is not perfect. It does not have the number of course offerings of a large university, or individual programs, such as a distinct undergraduate business school (although that is the last thing my child is interested in, so it doesn't matter.) But the smallness also gives a lot of opportunities that a student would really have to fight for at a larger school. </p>

<p>Again with transferring: one could make it to junior year, realize it is not for you, take a year off and transfer. There is no point to being miserable for 1-2 years of college.</p>

<p>The Honors program takes a lot of dedication to one subject. I imagine some students have that interest, and some don't. I personally would have loved it in college, but I can see that it is not for everyone.</p>

<p>AE: If you are an alum, where did your path lead you to after Swarthmore?</p>

<p>
[quote]
This is impressive. You've managed to cite a survey without actually citing anything or showing anything. Either put up the numbers and show how it compares to other top liberal arts schools or don't waste our time with bogus references.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I take it that you don't know about the 31 member COFHE schools and the joint surveys they conduct? One of the surveys they share is the bi-annual survey of graduating seniors.</p>

<p>COFHE</a> : Consortium On Financing Higher Education</p>

<p>Here are the survey instruments Institutional Research uses and shares with the other COFHE members:</p>

<p>Swarthmore</a> College :: Institutional Research :: Survey Research</p>

<p>But, of course, you prefer to cite a non-scientific internet survey of the ilk, "Is Britney hot?".</p>

<p>
[quote]
Actually there are a large number of college students who transfer. Sometimes students who are at smaller colleges want larger schools and vice versa. One of my children successfully transferred schools after freshman year and it was a great choice.

[/quote]

This can depend on a lot of things. Scholarships can factor in. Time can factor in. For instance, someone I knew who transferred out of Swarthmore to Rutgers actually lost ground in his major and had to stay in school for an extra year. I realize it seems absurd that you could lose ground going from Swarthmore to Rutgers, but it happens.</p>

<p>It can also be very hard to get into a top tier school as a transfer. The "if you don't like it then leave" move isn't always a feasible solution for college.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The Honors program takes a lot of dedication to one subject. I imagine some students have that interest, and some don't. I personally would have loved it in college, but I can see that it is not for everyone.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It's not for everyone; you're right. Unfortunately, professors tend to give preference to the honors students. I think most non-honors Swarthmore students would agree with this sentiment. It is definitely not a big deal to some, but I'm sure it is disappointing to others.</p>

<p>
[quote]
AE: If you are an alum, where did your path lead you to after Swarthmore?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm not going to post personal stuff on the internet. It's just not my style. You can PM me if you want to know about me.</p>

<p>I just hope you are happy now that you are out of Swarthmore. Sounds like your were pretty miserable during your college years. Must have been awful.</p>

<p>
[quote]
It is definitely not a big deal to some, but I'm sure it is disappointing to others.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And some are so miserable in college that little thing is "disappointing".</p>

<p>
[quote]
I take it that you don't know about the 31 member COFHE schools and the joint surveys they conduct? One of the surveys they share is the bi-annual survey of graduating seniors.</p>

<p>COFHE : Consortium On Financing Higher Education

[/quote]

That's right, I didn't know about it... and I still don't know about it, because that link doesn't give me any actual results or numbers. Where on that site am I going to find a comparison of student satisfaction for the top liberal arts schools?

[quote]
Here are the survey instruments Institutional Research uses and shares with the other COFHE members:</p>

<p>Swarthmore College :: Institutional Research :: Survey Research

[/quote]

That's great, interesteddad. Do you actually check your links? Go ahead and try and you'll see the relevant links in that list don't actually work. I just get "Access Forbidden." You can post and repost your alleged survey and links about it, but until you put up some actual numbers comparing Swarthmore to other liberal arts colleges in terms of student opinion and satisfaction, then what is the point of this nonsense?</p>

<p>
[quote]
But, of course, you prefer to cite a non-scientific internet survey of the ilk, "Is Britney hot?"

[/quote]

Is that the best you can do? Please. Either come up with some scientific numbers or working links that show the figures I posted before are wrong or kindly step off. Those figures I cited earlier are of student opinion. Like it or not, they indicate Swarthmore students are less satisfied with Swarthmore than other top liberal arts college students are with their colleges. All of your objections have been answered, all of your arguments debunked, and all of your links have been shown to be pointless and without data, and so now you're resorting to clowning around with Britney references.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I just hope you are happy now that you are out of Swarthmore. Sounds like your were pretty miserable during your college years. Must have been awful.

[/quote]

Could you try any harder to personalize this and bring some ad hominem to bear? Don't worry about me or my happiness, because you're getting a little presumptuous. Stick to the topic and don't insult us by trying to obfuscate the shortcomings in your position.</p>

<p>Your "survey" is well known. It's of the ilk "Who's hotter: Britney or Jessica?".</p>

<p>As much as you hated your time at Swarthmore, I know that you learned enough not to cite an interenet popularity poll...</p>

<p>I gave you the link to call the Swarthmore Institutional Research Office and get an idea of where Swarthmore ranks viz a vize the COFHE averages.</p>

<p>The last writeup I saw (in the most recent accreditation study) has academic advising as Swarthmore students' lowest rated item. However, it was still the highest rating of any COFHE school.</p>

<p>But, heh...there's always Brittney versus Jessica on the Internet!</p>

<p>Again, either post some numbers, cite a usable, source or step off. Your rhetoric is tedious and devoid of logic, and your analogies are histrionic and laughable. Your continued presumption and ad hominem serve only to lay bare the absence of any critical thinking in your participation in this thread.</p>

<p>Are you going to quit insulting us -- all of us -- with this rubbish or aren't you?</p>

<p>This discussion is tedious and doesn't really add anything to anyone's knowledge of Swarthmore or of peoples' opinions about Swarthmore.</p>

<p>Who the "h..." is A.E.?</p>

<p>Is s/he being paid to badmouth Swarthmore?</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/community-forum-issues/459145-cc-members-do-you-suffer-pds.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/community-forum-issues/459145-cc-members-do-you-suffer-pds.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Agreed, Harriet.</p>

<p>"Is that the best you can do? Please." <== PDS in all its glory</p>

<p>The schools you mention in your first post have some of the highest graduation and freshmen retention rates in the nation. If people are so unhappy at these schools, why do they stay? In my opinion, data on retention and grad rates are the most compelling indicators of overall satisfaction with a college. </p>

<p>Reviews on Students Review should be taken with a grain of salt, as anyone can write a review without providing proof that they actually attended the school being reviewed. Also, studies have shown that individuals who are unhappy with a product, service, experience, etc., are much more likely to write a negative review than those who write a positive review when they are pleased with the same product or service.
.</p>

<p>i totally concur with you arcadia, anyway, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.</p>

<p>She's/He's taking Student Review into consideration because she's/he's using it to compare to other schools, not just to judge how good Swat is. Her reasoning is that all the schools have those negative multiple reviewers, so all the schools are affected by them so the percentages should still be compareable. I'm not sure how good that logic is- the stat student inside of me says that it's probably much more complicated than that (lurking variables). Maybe students at Swarthmore are more likely to complain than others- the whole misery poker idea showing up in other places.</p>

<p>I agree that you should expose the CCers to some negative opinions, but maybe stats through Student Review aren't the best. A lot of applicants are looking through "rose colored" glasses at a LOT of schools they apply to (not just Swarthmore), and if these applicants don't realize some of the problems that Swat has, they could be dissapointed. No one has to scare them away because I still think it's an amazing school and the Swatties that I know are mostly very happy but they are also overworked/busy. It helps that they love learning.</p>

<p>Swat's environment works for some and doesn't work for others- at least her/his efforts show that not everyone that can get in should go. It shows the importance of evaluating fit of any school.</p>

<p>BTW the "just transfer!" idea is sort of silly. It's hard to transfer, especially if money is an issue. And if the transfer student can't get into an equally good school (I personally wouldn't go from Swat to a huge public state school just to escape from Swat)- probably a lot of students would sacrifice happiness for a good education.</p>

<p>Academically demanding schools may run some percentage higher on the "would you transfer" scale because a larger number of students find it onerous to keep up with the work. On a more scientific survey I saw a few years ago, U of Chicago (another high work load school) scored at the top of its peer group.</p>

<p>I think if one talks to enough students and recent alums in an effort to probe what they like and don't like about a school, one will reduce the risk of a bad fit.</p>