Student Sues Princeton Over Learning Disability Accommodations

Parents Forum
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<p>I agree with you Deja… I was just pointing out that no one is holding kids back from applying to these schools, but even without disabilities these are the most competitive schools in the country regardless. </p>

<p>I do wish this student didn’t have the added compensatory issues that DI athletics puts in the equation, and at the same time, I wish this student (and others) would do what Shawbridge did. Questioned the administration and found a place where the student could be most challenged AND accommodated. I am sure there was some serious back and forth about what accommodations could be reasonably put in place for his specific needs, but to put that mountain on the back of a young adult who basically waited (as it reads - and I admit there are some assumptions on my part there) until just before midterms to get it set up was a little late to this very complicated table.</p>

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<p>younghoss, you are right to suggest that posters not get confused about the case versus their kids versus general principles. I don’t think we know enough about the case to be able to venture really well thought through opinions – at least I don’t. Lots of stuff is missing.</p>

<p>What I was trying to comment on were a) the assumption underlying that university’s position in the dispute, given a bit of knowledge about the university; and b) some misleading general statements that some of the posters made.</p>

<p>Having just gone through the experience of helping a kid with LDs choose a college last spring, my experience suggests that you cannot learn much about how the school will treat your kid with his/her specific needs until they are accepted. Before that, you get all of the politically correct buzzwords. Upon acceptance, you can start to press for real answers about how your kid will be treated. But even then, after the PC blather, the most that some schools will tell you is that they have a process for deciding. “Although you have provided us with extensive neuropsychological reports that we have read, we are not going to comment on what might happen. After you choose to come, we’ll send the report to an expert who will review it. Then, we’ll make a recommendation to a committee, which will decide. So, we can’t tell you anything definitive before you choose to come. We really hope you will choose to come.” So, it is hard to get the information you’d like. Now, the girl in question had a brother who had gone there, so she may have thought that she knew what kind of treatment she would get. I believe in personal responsibility a lot, but I do think it is likely she and her parents wouldn’t have gotten the information you think they should have before making a decision.</p>

<p>My biggest concern is that LDs are hereditary and it takes a ton of the non-LD parent to work the system so that my son could a) learn; and b) be able to show his competence and ability. My wife says that she never would have been able to persevere in writing, emails, phone calls, etc. over the years.</p>

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<p>I would just like to add some info concerning athletics/EC’s and students with disabilities. My son is a Sr. in HS and not yet attending college, however, he is being recruited by D1 and D3 schools (by the way, some D3 programs are stronger than some D1 programs). He has similar LD’s as the Princeton student and is in the autistic spectrum. He has participated in 2 HS sports for all 4 yrs. Sports and his other EC’s have helped him to be a better student.</p>

<p>We have visited 17 schools and met with approx. 12 of those coaches (some official and some unofficial NCAA visits). Every coach and sports program is different from each other. Most D1 schools, and some D3, have mandatory study halls and offer academic support (sometimes on top of the other academic supports available to the general student population and LD population). Sports provide a lot of discipline and structure. For some kids, like mine, the regularity of 6 days/wk. practice and competition helps him to stay on track and focused on his schoolwork because there’s a limited amount of down time. </p>

<p>We found a number of coaches that are extremely invested in the student/athlete. They put the student part before the athlete part. This we found especially true at the small private schools and LAC’s (and at a couple SUNYs). We didn’t visit Ivies, however, they are known for this too. They mentor their athletes and get them help when and where they need it. They watch over their athletes and make sure they’re doing well in and out of class. They expect their athletes to be good citizens and to represent their schools well - in the class, on the playing field and in the community. Many coaches help find them work and internships in the summer and beyond with their networking/connections. In fact, the coach at American was so invested in having a top Academic All-American team that I swear my son could be a double-major there.</p>

<p>My son applied ED to a well-respected LAC. The coaches there have Ivy and top LAC academic and sports backgrounds, are All-Americans and have travelled the world in their sport. They know what it’s like to be a top student and athlete themselves. We’ve spent a lot of time with them. I know they will support my son in all aspects of his life while at college and beyond.</p>

<p>For some kids with disabilities, the wonderful coaches and the sport itself plays a big role in their success. Here’s hoping my son is accepted there and receives the 50% extended testing time he’ll be requesting from the Disabilities Office!</p>

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<p>Well, the only reason I started talking about myself is because there are pages and pages of completely outrageous comments about students with LDs in GENERAL and I felt personally attacked-- and I truly believe I was, whether you’d like to agree with me or not. But if you would like the conversation to go strictly back to the Princeton student, you can continue to speculate despite having nothing but news articles to back you up. Just remember you are talking about a real 17-18 year old here who is getting a LOT of extreme negativity from her classmates and the rest of the country, and you may not even know exactly what is happening unless you’ve found a more reliable source than the Princetonian. When people sit and discuss what they think you’re capable of without even knowing you it HURTS. I’ll leave you to it.</p>

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<p>What is really sad is that many universities hire their own experts to evaluate the submitted requests. Amazingly enough these universities find that the student is not disabled. The only recourse is to file a lawsuit. Appeals to the OCR are ineffective as the OCR does not evaluate if a student is disabled - they accept the viewpoint of the university.</p>

<p>My own niece had friends who were turned down by their university for accomodations. Hard of hearing - well, your hearing aid means you do not need accomodations. In a wheelchair - too bad the campus bus system won’t accomodate you and you have to call for a special van. Oh, and the university book store only has stairs so your chair has to be lifted down steps. You have ADD - no problem you have medication so you are not considered disabled. No accomodations are needed by any of you.</p>

<p>These universities exist - many of them, like Princeton, make it difficult for students hoping they will leave. The only recourse the student has is to sue. </p>

<p>Disabilities are real, people. ADD is real, dyspraxia is real, etc., etc. Amazingly enough England and Australia are light years ahead of the United States in how they recognize and work with students who have disabilities that are given short shrift in the United States.</p>

<p>Just read some of the COPAA (Council of Parent Attorneys and Advocates) postings. Your heart will break. </p>

<p>I just cannot believe the ignorance of many who have posted in this thread. It is very discouraging to those of us who work for those with disabilities.</p>

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<p>I just want to comment on this statement from an earlier post:</p>

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<p>In fact, students with ADHD/LD/ADD and other disabilities receive federally-mandated services while gifted students frequently receive none at all, or far less than they actually need. Gifted students are frequently treated as nuisances by elementary schools in particular, and their parents have no recourse other than to homeschool. Unlike the parents of a child with disabilities, they cannot sue and FORCE the school district to pay tuition at an out of district placement that would provide suitable education for their child. I know that parents of kids who need “special ed” support also find themselves wrangling with administrators, but if their kid is identified as having needs the law is on their side. NO ONE is on the side of the gifted.</p>

<p>Our school district, for example, spends millions of dollars per year on special ed, and perhaps 200,000 or so on gifted ed. And ours is better than many.</p>

<p>Star athletes, of course, are another matter.</p>

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<p>“Why shouldn’t these students be encouraged to apply to the same types of places as students without these disabilities? The existence of these places undermines efforts to have these students included everywhere.”</p>

<p>I gues the same reason that schools like Howard and Spelman still exist despite the integration (and diversity recruitment efforts) of predominantly white schools. Some students prefer an environment where they represent the norm (whatever that means to the student) rather than being a minority in the student population.</p>

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<p>agree with Consolation. My gifted kids not only had no one jumping through hoops for them, they were asked to help teach other kids or to sit quietly and read while the teacher taught the rest of the class. We had no choice but to pull our kids out of regular school and put them in a school for the gifted. But, we were fortunate that such a school existed less than an hour away and that we were able to pay for it. Not everyone is that lucky and many gifted kids fall through the cracks.</p>

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<p>My compliments to annieroses, for making a careful search to help prospective student find the school that is his best fit.</p>

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<p>Gifted kids face incredible, unmet needs in public schools, too. That is for darn sure. Try having a gifted dyslexic and see the kinds of things they come up with. It’s ridiculous. The school system is a system. It’s meant to serve the “norm” or “average” and it really doesn’t do well for anyone who has any kind of exceptionalism. The parents have to go to war…gifted, LD, talented athletes, talented singers, actors, painters…it’s just not going to really be “there.” But, yeah, gifted kids also face a lot of emotional stuff that isn’t even dealt with in the school system, let alone the fact that their teachers are usually not as bright as they are, which in and of itself creates a problem of recognizing real breakthroughs…tough situation, not enough money. </p>

<p>As for schools like landmark, which is a two year college, the primary purpose is to remediate and help the child who has not yet learned how to negotiate the academic environment get some tools to be able to do this. It’s actually really valuable for kids who are not yet ready for a four year college for varying reasons, including never having learned thier learning style, not understanding how to remediate for themselves, not knowing how to explain it to a teacher in order to be able to get what they need to learn. A large percentage of kids from landmark go on to excellent four year colleges. But, it’s just a stop-gap matter, to teach the kids HOW to make it through.</p>

<p>My D never had to do anything like that, but I know of a couple of kids who did and went on to four year and then medical school or graduate school. It can be a fantastic opportunity.</p>

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<p>“Why shouldn’t these students be encouraged to apply to the same types of places as students without these disabilities? The existence of these places undermines efforts to have these students included everywhere.”</p>

<p>I gues the same reason that schools like Howard and Spelman still exist despite the integration (and diversity recruitment efforts) of predominantly white schools. "</p>

<p>Or Gallaudet. (My S was looking at colleges in the DC area and came up with Gallaudet. I don’t know how he missed that it was intended for deaf students, which he is not!)</p>

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<p>Just as an aside, incidentally, one doesn’t have to be deaf or HOH (hard of hearing) to enroll at Gallaudet. They started a Hearing Undergraduate Program a few years ago (see: [Undergraduate</a> Admissions](<a href=“http://admissions.gallaudet.edu/Admissions/HUG/HUG_Program.htm]Undergraduate”>http://admissions.gallaudet.edu/Admissions/HUG/HUG_Program.htm)) for hearing students who want to go to earn degrees that will enable them to work in the deaf community or with deaf/HOH communities (sign language interpreter, social services, what have you). Students do have to have some preexisting knowledge of ASL however. I also believe that hearing people can enroll in most courses (not as a degree student, unless in the HUG program though) on a part-time, auditing, and/or visiting student basis.</p>

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<p>Because the term “learning disability” is a broad umbrella that unfortunately includes some types of limited intellectual disabilities as well as functional or processing disabilities. Institutions of higher learning are bastions of intellectualism, and the most highly selective are geared to the most academically capable. </p>

<p>Some of the symptoms such as memory difficulties described in the news reports about the plaintiff sound more like intellectual disabilities than functional/processing problems. By its nature, an elite college is intended for people who have exceptionally strong intellectual abilities. </p>

<p>We don’t know all the details of the Princeton lawsuit – but I can see that it is EARLY. This student tried to get an injunction before her first midterms her freshman year, rather than accepting the accommodations she was offered and seeing how it went. So there is no track record of whether she actually <em>needs</em> all the extra time she wants, or just thinks or assumes she will need it. </p>

<p>Part of an elite education is that it should be intellectually challenging. The Ivies select students on the basis of their ability to rise to the challenge. This isn’t a case of a school refusing accommodations – it is a case of the school offering one set of accommodations and the student demanding another, even without attempting to work with whatever was offered. </p>

<p>I think the legal case would be much better if the student took the mid-terms but was unable to complete the work in the time alloted - at least there would then be a track record of what percentage she was able to complete in the time given. If it is 2 or 3-hour exam, then 100% extra time is a LOT – if it is the type of exam where 3 hours is alloted but most students finish in half the time, then the faculty might see it as a situation where the extra time is already there for those who need it.</p>

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<p>“Part of an elite education is that it should be intellectually challenging. The Ivies select students on the basis of their ability to rise to the challenge.”</p>

<p>^^ And among that intellectually gifted population, fully 50% of the students will be in the bottom half of the class. So, what is the accommodation supposed to accomlish - - make sure the student earns grades between 25th and75th percentiles? If the LD student’s grades fall below the 50th percentile, is the evidence that the accommodations are insufficient? If the student’s grades are above the 70th percentile, does that me she has an unfair advantage?</p>

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<p>And note too, that her attorneys have indicated she has/will suffer “irreparable harm”.
Really? Do they mean if she scores very poorly on her mid-terms that damage has been done to her that cannot be repaired? Does anyone believe that? Has this attorney never heard of ANY student who does poorly in a class, even without any disability, having to take a class over? And while repeating a class is an inconvenience, it does repair the original grade. Such outlandish claims undermine a student’s genuine claims imo.</p>

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<p>Not at Princeton. The F is on the student’s transcript forever.</p>

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<p>younghoss, My son was denied accommodations by several of his teachers. The administrators knew and I have a trail of emails and meetings to prove it. Despite almost a year of my reminders, the school has yet to do anything about the grades that were given without accommodations. It can be very hard to overturn a grade once it is given. </p>

<p>Calmom, I can’t help but think that you truly don’t understand. You wrote this: “Some of the symptoms such as memory difficulties described in the news reports about the plaintiff sound more like intellectual disabilities than functional/processing problems.” In fact, memory difficulties (like working memory) are common in ADD or ADHD students. It is not necessarily an intellectual difficulty at all. </p>

<p>“So there is no track record of whether she actually <em>needs</em> all the extra time she wants, or just thinks or assumes she will need it.”
There may well be a track record before college. As I stated earlier, testing alone is not enough for a school to recommend accommodations. The disability must impact learning. In order to prove that it impacted learning, there would have been a track record from the time before she was diagnosed. (Remember, this is a student who has been accommodated for years. So the specific accommodations would have been recommended by the psychologist and/or speech pathologist, adopted by the committee at the high school, reviewed and accepted by the College Board committee also.) </p>

<p>“This isn’t a case of a school refusing accommodations – it is a case of the school offering one set of accommodations and the student demanding another”</p>

<p>The accommodations listed in the article are not fitting the disabilities. It does NOTHING for a child with an expressive/receptive language disorder to give them a 10 minute break! It’s almost laughable. It’s akin to giving a person in a wheelchair a book in Braille. They’re unrelated. There is a range of accommodations that <em>might</em> be appropriate for a student with those disabilities (things like books on tape, class notes, extended time, grammar check, computer use, a scribe) and, if that article is accurate, Princeton is not giving <em>any</em> of them. If Princeton were given computer use and the student was saying she needed a scribe, then you would have a point. But the law requires the accommodations to address the individual’s specific disabilities and Princeton hasn’t.</p>

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<p>I’m not referring to the ADHD claims. I’m referring to the claims that she suffers:</p>

<p>*• "Mixed-Receptive-Expressive Language Disorder, which limits her ability to comprehend language, express language or recall material.</p>

<p>• Disorder of Written Expression, which leaves her ability to communicate in writing below the level expected based on age, intelligence or life experiences."*</p>

<p>I don’t think the ADA means that Princeton has to compromise its academic standards. I assume based on its prestige and selectivity, that Princeton is intended to provide a challenging academic environment for individual’s with exceptionally high ability to comprehend language, recall material, and communicate in writing. At least that was what I thought the SAT’s and/or ACT’s were supposed to test. </p>

<p>I’d note that as far as ADHD is concerned, the complaint states:</p>

<p>* • Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, which limits her ability to focus. When reading, any distraction requires her to go back to the beginning of the passage.*</p>

<p>It seems to me that a distraction-free environment with regular breaks should meet that problem.</p>

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<p>I’d add that without knowing more, my guess would be that the plaintiff has recent documentation of ADHD – with the description provided in the complaint (difficulty focusing, rereading needed with any distraction) but not of the other disorders listed. This is consistent with anecdotal information reported in the comments section of the [Daily</a> Princetonian](<a href=“http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2009/10/30/24330/"]Daily”>http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2009/10/30/24330/) article – apparently its fairly common for students to be granted 50% extra time on exams, but they do need recent documentation. This is also consistent with the accommodations that actually were offered. </p>

<p>In other words… it is likely that she has documented the ADHD and need for a distraction-free environment, but because she has been denied extended time, her lawyer has dredged up a 2003 diagnosis of disabilities that no longer apply. It is difficult to understand how a person who has significant impairment in comprehending language or communicating in writing could possibly score high enough on the SAT or ACT to win admission to Princeton, even when granted extended time – so perhaps that is part of her problem. If, for example, she has a score of 11 on an ACT or SAT essay, that score by itself would negate the idea that she has a below average ability to communicate in writing.</p>

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<p>I have mostly tried to avoid personal details here, but as the thread continues, I would like to ask for comments about our daughter, from some of the critical posters here, who feel that a selective college should maintain its standards by denying certain accommodations that have been requested by a student with documented disabilities.</p>

<p>Our daughter has multiple chronic health conditions. She is at an very selective college, which she loves. She is an excellent student, and had stellar recommendations in her application from teachers in the performing arts, who termed her a “genius,” “the most talented student I have had in 35 years” and so on. I am not bragging here, I am establishing her right to be at this school.</p>

<p>Her illnesses have different manifestations every few months, and life is a little like putting out one brush fire, only to spot a new one a few yards away, always trying to prevent a forest fire. She does not do any EC’s, much as she would like to, and gets her work done well in advance, in case something happens. Still, the possibility of problems always looms over her, and it is stressful.</p>

<p>Last year, she would lose the use of her right arm for periods of time. This year, she is having seizures (not the kind where you convulse on the floor) that leave her confused for hours, and unable to focus or remember or even spell for awhile, sometimes hours, sometimes days.</p>

<p>It would be easy to say that she should only be at school when she is stable, but she is never stable. Policies on illness are geared to acute illnesses, with the presumption of a return to health, but what about chronic conditions?</p>

<p>It would be easy to say that she should be on leave until the right meds are found, but she did go on leave last year for this purpose (she herself felt that her work was not up to her standards, so she chose to leave) and the meds that provided equilibrium last spring and summer, started to wane in effect a couple of months ago.</p>

<p>She has registered with the disabilities office, and other college officials are aware of her situation. The way it works at her school is that the student works directly with the professors on accommodations. If she is at the infirmary, there is a college official (this year, he is extraordinarily kind and supportive) who e-mails her professors about her absence that day, but otherwise, she is pretty much on her own. So far, she has not had trouble with any professors, but I am sure that at some point she will.</p>

<p>She dislikes accommodations, and, since she has been ill since an early age, prefers to meet standards that are as “normal” as possible. However, the disabilities office has a long list of suggested accommodations for her, supplied, along with documentation of her health problems, by three MD’s. The disabilties office did not think up any way to help her: we researched what might be helpful, and then presented the list as “suggestions of possible accommodations.” I am not sure how they would ever be implemented: there is no system for that. But they are on record.</p>

<p>I believe the disabilities office likes her because she chose to leave, in order to keep her standards of work up. Thus our daughter joined the disabilities office staff as “guardians of the curriculum” as Shawbridge said. This is admirable, but if there is a next time, I believe she would fight more to stay. (She was told that a voluntary leave did not get on her record, and so the implied threat was, that if she did not leave soon enough, it would become an involuntary leave, that did go on her record.)</p>

<p>At the moment, things are touch and go. She had a bad seizure last weekend, and this is the week when papers and presentations are due. She needs to rest her brain, but she is working hard, because there is really not much leeway for her at this school.</p>

<p>If she should get extensions on papers, or extra time on a test, would you all say that she does not belong at the school? Would you say that she/we should have done better research before she applied or enrolled? (The department for her major at this school is the best she could find anywhere. She LOVES her classes and classmates) Her school does not provide incompletes, and she is supposed to graduate in 8 semesters (she has to petition for each extra semester). Could some of these things be changed at the college, voluntarily, to make it easier for kids with chronic illnesses to attend and succeed? How does it hurt anyone to make it possible for a kid like this to graduate with work at the level she can actually do?</p>

<p>At high school, she would miss a huge amount of school, and kept up at home. She took tests when she was able to (usually on time or w/in a week of the test at school). She was one of the top students in the class and, despite so many absences, was voted “most likely to succeed” by her peers. The college was fully informed of her situation before she was admitted. </p>

<p>Can a kid like this finish college at all? How many kids are there like this, who get off their chosen path because the world of elite colleges (and indeed most colleges of any calibre) lacks flexibility, and values competition over assisting students with gifts, but special needs.</p>

<p>You don’t really understand how strong the pressure to fit the tight box of healthy functioning is, until you can’t fit. I don’t really see any difference between our daughter and the plaintiff, and I think many of us on this thread have kids like this. Many of us live with tension in our guts, waiting for something awful to happen.</p>

<p>More of these kids, like my daughter, are thriving in high school thanks to the ADA, and are now entering selective colleges. These colleges are going to have to get with it, and accommodate them. The colleges also admit kids from less than stellar high schools, from lower socioeconomic backgrounds, and those admissions are also promises that need to be kept. Colleges want diversity, but then they also need to provide the supports for students who do display this diversity, whether economic, academic, racial, or through disability and learning style. This is a scary thought for many, who would like their kids to be at an elite school with elite demands, so that they can join an economic and cultural elite after their degree.</p>

<p>Just a few weeks left in the semester. I think she will make it, but I am not sleeping. How many of those who posted the more mean-spirited comments can understand living like this? What do you think our daughter should do: leave and take evening classes somewhere, so that she can withdraw whenever a problem arises?</p>