My question is is this a stated policy somewhere? My first thought is that there are too many kids who want to take it but not enough seats so they give the seats to seniors first and work down.
And, yes, I agree with those who say that for most kids at most schools the idea of various sections of BC Cal is laughable. But if they are turning kids away, it sounds like OP’s school could look at adding another section. I’d like to know how many kids want to take it and aren’t able to.
@mathyone I am just posting a link about what I found . I agree that grades and a track record are also important. In this instance, the child is not being shut out of BC. She is just being placed in AB first. And none of us know the situation in this particular school, including how many kids want to take BC and the resources of the school in general, what the math department placement policies are, etc. And the OP has not been back to explain anything further or answer any questions.
I would think if the class is over full, that this would have been mentioned to the parent. Sorry the class is over full and so we are allocating seats based upon PSAT score (or grade level) is a very different statement than sorry your child’s PSAT score isn’t high enough to be successful in this class and so they can’t take it.
sevmom, to me it seems like telling a skier who is ready for the blue slopes that they have to stay on the bunny slope for another year. That’s no way to create elite skiers. And slowing a kid down in math for no reason is no way to develop mathematicians.
Since the OP has not returned, a lot of this is speculation. The school ,for whatever reason, does not feel this child is ready for BC Calculus. There may also be limited spots, preference for seniors first, etc. We just don’t know. If the family feels differently, they can pursue it with the school district.
In general, I agree with @mathmom . I would rather have a student who can handle the material take BC Calc and then MV Calc. That can give the student a leg up in college, if they learn the material well.
If she needs some SAT math review, that can be done too. I would suggest a tutor for that.
As @servmom rightly observes, I don’t know the details of this specific situation. However, I am always more suspicious when schools slow down girls in math. Far too many very capable girls are placed in lower math classes than they should be in because of administrators with bias and poor judgment, who would not have a clue if Albert Einstein were sitting right in front of them.
Even back in the dark ages, I was placed with lots of guys in the accelerated math sequence, even in my working class public school. I was on track even in the early 70’s to take calculus in high school. Just didn’t have an interest. I also took physics in high school and don’t remember it being a big issue. But, maybe just lucky. I wouldn’t necessarily jump to a conclusion here that this is about gender, without proof.
@sevmom “I was placed with lots of guys in the accelerated math sequence, even in my working class public school.”
It clearly does not happen every time, but it happens way too often. I am not asserting that it is happening in this case, but I am asserting that it happens way too often. Go to any high school that offers MV calculus and see what the percentage of women is in that class and you will see. It is disgraceful.
If this student has all A’s in math but her PSAT is not very high, the administration should be looking at the courses and instructors that she has had, not holding back the student. If I were the parent, I would also want to assess my D with a practice PSAT math section at home to understand what she does not know. The PSAT is not a good criteria because it is easy to have a bad day. If there are significant gaps in her knowledge, then she needs a tutor and some practice to learn that information. AB calc will not solve that problem.
I would also want to know whether all of the students in BC had higher grades and test scores. Finally, I would want to know the percentage of Juniors in BC calculus who are female.
Not jumping to conclusions, just skeptical. I have seen this movie before.
You don’t need AB or BC calculus in high school , let alone MV calculus to succeed in 99 + % of things. There is self selection in most fields. And if the aptitude/interest is there, mathematics is open to anyone, with classes as well as potential self study.
“slowing down a kid for no reason in math is no way to develop mathematicians.” Most people are not going to be “mathematicians.” There is no indication the OP’s daughter is interested in being a “mathematician.” She wants a level of math her school has not given her, but they have still assigned her to a calculus class. Based on limited info, that’s all we know. I don’t see a conspiracy here to keep this young woman down, unless there is some info to the contrary the OP wants to provide.
Well a pretty easy way to assure you don’t get mathematicians is too have stupid arbitrary rules to slow people down. Until my kid got to high school I had to fight every year for him. It gets old fast.
@sevmom “I don’t see a conspiracy here to keep this young woman down…”
In my experience, it is rarely done intentionally. I am not suggesting that.
People just see what they expect to see, instead of what is actually in front of them. Additionally, many teachers are just not knowledgeable enough to accurately discern math ability/potential when they see it. Making matters worse, they may think they are. There is no question that these errors happen to boys too, but they happen more frequently to girls.
A boy who comes in to office hours with math questions may be seen as diligent. In contrast, a girl coming into office hours with math questions is more likely to be seen as unable to solve the problems independently.
@sevmom “Most people are not going to be “mathematicians.” There is no indication the OP’s daughter is interested in being a “mathematician.””
True, but not really relevant. Calculus is a tool that is useful in lots of majors and professions, it is not just for mathematicians or even primarily for mathematicians. The importance of calculus is as a practical tool, not as a purely theoretical exercise.
@mathmom “Well a pretty easy way to assure you don’t get mathematicians is too have stupid arbitrary rules to slow people down.”
That is correct. I would be reluctant to slow a student who had an A in precalculus, wants to take BC calculus, and is willing to work hard at it.
“I would be reluctant to slow a student” But , you would be working from/ making decisions based on what is available to you. We just don’t know what the whole story is here. And some parents want extra courses/ attention that a public system may or may not be able to provide. This might be a private school involved for all we know. Just not enough info. Parents are often advocating for their kids- the gifted musician’s parents want more resources for them, the athlete’s kids want stuff for their kids, the artists, writer , theater kids want more for their kids, etc.
We don’t even allow some of the positions about mathematics and girls discussed here, neither the assertions or speculations, to be discussed in our household. There has simply been no good basis to believe my girls would not be received, treated, and held to be as capable (in anything, really) as their older, electrifyingly bright brother.
D’16 will indeed be studying mathematics in college, probably because it just makes the most sense to her than anything else in the world (mathematics), and it calls to her.
Can we really be having this conversation in these times?
@Waiting2exhale “D’16 will indeed be studying mathematics in college, probably because it just makes the most sense to her than anything else in the world (mathematics), and it calls to her.”
Good for her, and congratulations to you!
@waiting2exhale “Can we really be having this conversation in these times?”
D1 took BC calc as a junior in high school and MV calc as a senior. There were 25 students in her MV calc class and 21 of them were boys. Of the four girls, three were Asian. Only one white girl, and no Black or Hispanic students.
So out of about 300 white girls in her grade, D1 was the only one to make it to that top math class. That was not just a coincidence. Many girls who were capable of being there were not. You would think we would not have to have that conversation in 2016, but we do because no one is fixing it.
You would really need to know how much of that is self selection. I was on track to take calculus in HS decades ago but had no interest. One of my sons had no interest either but went on to engineering in college. MV calculus was not even available at their school. Didn’t matter. They took it in college. It is all relative.
@sevmom “You would really need to know how much of that is self selection.”
Many girls self-select out based on what they are told by people around them. Often well intended, but ignorant people. Many girls receive a lot of negative messages about girls and math that boys don’t get, and girls with similar accomplishments to boys are likely to be viewed at less accomplished by those around them.
Fifty years ago, people said women couldn’t/shouldn’t be doctors, and were much better suited to nursing. We have finally cracked that myth in the minds of most people, but the girls aren’t as good at math myth still has an unfortunate place in the zeitgeist.
" Many girls who were capable of being there were not."
I think it’s all because of the toxic sexist culture we have in the U.S.
In South Korea, high school girls score higher than boys in math (and in other subjects too)
One of my best high school memories actually involves math, (great memories with Latin as well). And this was decades ago. I had a rather gruff teacher for geometry and trig that called everyone by their last names. He put a problem up and went through the class asking who could solve it. I had a W last name so had figured it out but had to wait until it got to me (mostly boys before me). I can still picture it all these years later, nobody getting it, waiting patiently, and it finally coming to me. I was so proud when I gave him the answer. A lot has changed in 50 years. My grandmother was a nurse but my parents were not college graduates. More emphasis these days on first generation access to college, women in math, science, computing. It seems to be getting better. And the ability to get along with people in the workplace, male or female, is always a bonus.
MODERATOR’S NOTE:
Closing thread. Despite my earlier post, not only are users still speculating, but it has now devolved into a conversation which is more appropriate for PM’s. If and when the OP returns, I will reopen the thread for his/her responses.