<p>Question: I’m in 10th grade now and planning my future high school classes. In 8th grade, I took Algebra I; freshman year, took Geometry, sophomore year, taking Algebra II. A normal course at our school would to be continue on for PreCalculus/Trig junior year and Calculus senior year. The only prerequisite for taking AP [...]</p>
<p>Sally: I read your response and noticed that you advised Calc for the most selective/competitive universities...but how does one decide where that cut-off is? Our public school math track gets the average kid in math to only pre-calc as a senior..Does that automatically exclude a certain level of university? (and I know that top 20 wants calc, but I guess I am asking where does that end? top 50?)</p>
<p>Your destiny around here is basically sealed in middle school based on this......</p>
<p>I have to disagree with the destiny thing. My kid had the same problem because her school only offered pre-algebra in junior high. So she doubled up in high school. Took algebra in 9th, took Geometry + Algebra II in 10th, Precalc in 11th, AP Calc BC in 12th. that meant giving up an elective but worth it. I guess that many could take a summer course instead. I also know another girl from her middle school who took an online Algebra course summer before 9th.</p>
<p>thanks, Brown: Not permitted around here, other than summer (and I don't even know if that would be allowed), no alternative.....D may be able to take pre-calc and stats senior year, but little chance of calc happening..but thanks for the post.....</p>
<p>Rodney, D changed school districts in 8th grade, and was not on track in the new school to reach calculus in HS. Our summer school does not allow students to take a course unless it is necessary due to failing, so D did take an online course, (on our dime of course, actually $600). Why and how would your district prevent your child from taking an acredited online course? I would check again on that, and even call your school board. Something is wrong when a student is prevented from accelerating for whatever reason.</p>
<p>GA2012: I will PM you....</p>
<p>In MS, our school district allows students to "test up" at the beginning of a school year, to advance in mathematics. My S had a built in advantage in that my H is a math professor. He taught S Algebra over one summer and S passed the class and thus went directly to geometry. (Others kids interested in this took summer classes at various places.)</p>
<p>Algebra II is only offered at the HS (which is thankfully next door, although on a block schedule and the HS is not), so in 9th grade, S and three others went to the HS for that class. They discovered quickly they weren't in the honors class and, on their own, went to the MS principal and said they needed to be in the honors class, which she promptly helped them to do. (She's now an Asst. Supt. of Insruction.)</p>
<p>Then on to HonorsTrig/Math Analysis as a freshman, AP Calc BC as a sophomore, and now an on line class (with H's help) in Linear Algebra as a junior.</p>
<p>What is the difference between AP Calc AB and AP Calc BC?</p>
<p>AB covers one semester of college calc and BC covers two. Both the same level of work, but one does it quicker. In reality BC only does two more chapters out of our calc book at my school, so it is not that big of a difference.</p>
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Sally: I read your response and noticed that you advised Calc for the most selective/competitive universities...but how does one decide where that cut-off is? Our public school math track gets the average kid in math to only pre-calc as a senior..Does that automatically exclude a certain level of university? (and I know that top 20 wants calc, but I guess I am asking where does that end? top 50?)</p>
<p>Your destiny around here is basically sealed in middle school based on this......
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<p>I agree, Rodney, that sometimes one's fate can seem sealed by grade 8. But, as some other CC members have noted, there are ways that a student can climb to a higher math track even after starting out on a more middling route.</p>
<p>The more selective schools---those that admit anywhere from 10% or less of their applicants up to about 50% or so (these are just ballpark figures)--do tend to look for applicants who have taken the "Most Demanding" classes offered at their high school (or at least a "Very Demanding" courseload), and students who don't take calculus where it's available may not be on the "Most Demanding" turf. However, admissions is usually a holistic process, and admission officials look at the big picture. For instance, if a student has a rising record but started off somewhat slowly, admission committees will understand that the cumulative GPA and class rank suffered, and they will also assume that this student wasn't in the top-shelf classes early on and thus may not have been able to get into calculus or other classes with prerequisites.</p>
<p>At the vast majority of colleges---and even at the hyper-selective ones---a transcript without calculus is definitely not a deal-breaker. (Yes, some tech schools and/or majors do expect it, but these are in the minority.) The initial "Ask the Dean" query that launched this discussion asked which "looked better" on a transcript ... calculus vs. statistics or computer science. Most admission officials would answer "calculus" but that's not the same as saying it's a must!</p>
<p>thanks for the reply....definitely a comprehensive response....and given that we will probably not be in the "college market" for competitive schools, we should be ok....I will, however, suggest the virtual HS math course to her if she still would like to pursue that....</p>
<p>Sally - I have a question that is perhaps a slight variation on the official thread topic. My sophomore daughter is currently taking H Pre-Calc, and plans to take AP Calc AB and BC in 11th and 12 grades. However, she has no real interest in AP sciences, and opted this year to take Honors Bio (rather than AP)....which is plenty challenging, I might add. She plans to take Honors Chemistry in 11th and Honors Physics in 12th. I might add that the science courses at her school so far are unremarkable (based both on personal experience and stories from others). In addition to CALC AB and BC she will likely have three or four other AP's in English, History, etc., which are of much more interest to her. Will she be disadvantaged by not taking AP sciences? Thanks for any insight you can offer.</p>
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Will she be disadvantaged by not taking AP sciences? Thanks for any insight you can offer.
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<p>scrabbler42--For starters, it depends on where your daughter is applying. If she's aiming for the Ivies and their ilk (that handful of uber-selective places that always seem to be looking for reasons to turn away superstar kids), then her best bet, as I noted earlier, is to select a course load that her counselor will give the "Most Demanding" designation. (This means "Most Demanding" when compared to what is offered at her school, not in the entire universe.) So, depending on the high school and the norm there, a course roster that's very strong but lacks AP classes in science may--or may not--earn the "Most Demanding" label. (And, even if it DOES, at those sorts of colleges, she'll still be "competing" with other applicants from elsewhere who have AP classes across the board.) </p>
<p>The lack of AP's in sciences won't automatically torpedo your daughter's chances at such colleges, but do know that it may put her a notch behind the "competition," so admission folks will be looking for unique strengths in other areas instead. If she's got them, she should be okay.</p>
<p>If, however, she's applying to selective colleges but not the vaunted few that are seemingly impossible to get into in the first place, then her course selection sounds challenging and shouldn't pose any problems at all. </p>
<p>It might be helpful to you and your daughter to meet with the guidance counselor now, while she's still a sophomore, and ask if the schedule that she's planning over the next couple years will be considered "Most Demanding," "Very Demanding," etc. by your high school's standards.</p>
<p>You've hit on one of my pet peeves (of many) in this process. I feel there's way too much pressure on kids to take the wrong classes for the wrong reasons. Heaven help the Future Freuds who choose psychology over physics or the aspiring artist who opts for silk-screening instead of chem!</p>
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<p>No! No! No!</p>
<p>Taking both Calc AB and BC is redundant (BC covers AB). If she is advanced enough to take Calc in 11th grade, then take Calc BC. Figure out something else for 12th grade, like AP Stats or AP Computer Science. Or, take the next calc class at a local community college.</p>
<p>If she wants to go to a highly competitive school, she will be disadvantaged by not taking AP Sciences. Schools want to see that the kid is taking the most challenging classes they can. Many schools you have to take the Honors Bio/Chem/Phys class before you can take the AP Bio/Chem/Phys. Given that you should have 4 science classes by the time you graduate, at least one of them should be at the AP level.</p>
<p>If there is no other math class available (AP Calc BC in 11th Grade), she might be able to convince the admissions office that AP Phys was the best she could do.</p>
<p>Even if she doesn’t care about sciences in college, many liberal arts colleges require at least one lab course for graduation. She might as well get prepared for that class.</p>
<p>I don’t have that much trouble getting an A or a B in AB Calc but it’s rather time consuming, and challenging to get an A in our Computer Science. It should be respected a lot more from my school to have taken Computer Science AB. Calc AB is considered the norm among the smarter students (Top 50%.)</p>
<p>Maybe we should all just take all three classes (Calc, Stats, Computer Science) so that we can circumvent this question completely!</p>
<p>Seriously, Computer Science is probably the easiest of the three…</p>
<p>Do what I did.
I ended up taking PreCalc this year. I was worried that i wouldn’t be competitive enough for college so I am going to take Calc and Stats next year.
In conclusion:
Take the hardest math classes you can(all of them).</p>
<p>with all due respect i beg to differ from OperDad…I took AB as a sophomore and am currently taking BC as a junior. yes, BC does cover a lot of the same topics as AB does, but it goes through them much much faster. in addition, the extra BC topics covered are significantly MORE difficult than the AB topics (stuff like series and sequences, polar, integration by parts, partial fractions, etc etc)
take AB to get a good foundation for BC, or you will find yourself struggling with the topics because they’re taught quickly and superficially, since teachers assume you’ve already learned the stuff in AB. a lot of kids in my class who hadnt taken AB dropped out or are failing BC because the level is completely different.
of course it depends on your school/teacher/etc…but i would definitely recommend taking AB first. besides, if your daughter is already in HPrecalc as a soph, she’s at a much more advanced level in math than most sophomores. why rush and take BC junior year if you can do AB/BC junior/senior year?</p>
<p>Our HS doesn’t allow students to take AB and then BC. I guess the HS shares OperDad’s view (that it’s redundant). Students must choose one or the other. Top students (those applying to top ranked schools) take BC.</p>
<p>My grade 10 son is doing a modification of the typical math sequence at his HS, since math is not his thing (Algebra I is taken in middle school in both cases below):
- Typical (grade 9 to 12): Geometry, Alg II, Pre Calc, Calc (or AP Calc)
- What S is doing (grade 9 to 12): Geometry, Math 3, Math 4, Pre Calc
Math 3 & 4 are Alg II spread over 2 yrs (slower pace)
Question: will this sequence limit his college choices? We are trying to optimize his GPA and overall rigor as best we can, knowing that he does not like math and will not be an engineer or have any math-related career. So far he has been a B math student.</p>