<p>It's sad because the student is also applying to other top tier schools and it's horrible to imagine that she may take the spot of someone who has worked honestly in high school.</p>
<p>Evil asian doctor does make a very valid point though.......</p>
<p>Wow..... maybe you could just kid some big kids together and beat this kid into some sense
therefore
1. no mess with the schools involved
2. the pleasure of punching a kid like that in the face..... hell i don teven know him and I want to do it through my comp
3. He gets scared ****less and he comes to his senses</p>
<p>joke</p>
<p>Hey Chillin, his/her name is Evil Asian Dictator, not Doctor. LOL.</p>
<p>So, Evil one, if you look at my first post starting this thread, I didn't say I was going to report anyone to Stanford. However, others have made some good points on why both the person I am talking about and the student that the other poster speaks of, should be reported. </p>
<p>However, I do see your points as well. While my child is not applying to Stanford, there are other students, even the valedictorian, who are. There is another student, who is a double legacy, but whose rank is not as good as the cheater. I wonder too about him and how all this would affect him. </p>
<p>Right now, I am not doing anything.</p>
<p>"Hey Chillin, his/her name is Evil Asian Dictator, not Doctor. LOL."</p>
<p>Wow I just got pwnd</p>
<p>Excuse my ignorance, I am an old lady. What does pwnd stand for? If it is bad, really I was only kidding.</p>
<p>pwnd = owned --> used by computer nerds all the time :)</p>
<p>Anyway, I think it does not matter. Student like this typically fail college or at least had hard time in college. </p>
<p>I had a really stupid and anal classmate (word) who always bugged around and asking annoyingly obvious questions. I'm not saying asking questions is wrong but if you have a question and yet you act like you are smart but not really argh.. I just couldn't explain it.. Anyway I just could not figure out how the heck he ended up at my school. i guess this kind of things happen all the time.</p>
<p>Considering you have no connections to Stanford, it may be inappropriate for you to call and complain about an applicant. This could be an instance in which you must unfortunately sit back, let what happens happen, and hope that this student gets what's coming in the end. It's possible that he will be spotted for what he is and be soundly rejected, or he may be accepted to a prestigious school. In this case, he may flunk out and do horribly when he realizes how incapable and immature he's been, or he may be inspired by the amazing people around him and actually grow up and do honest work.</p>
<p>"He is well known in the school for cheating, plagerizing, etc"</p>
<p>Is he one of those kids working the SAT LD (3 hours extra time) scam?</p>
<p>ABC New by implication puts the number at about 24,000 of the 300,000 taking the SAT, with about 6000 believed to legitimate "learning disabled" - athough even some of the legitimate kids may still be getting a huge advantage going way beyond their supposed ADD/HD "disability".</p>
<p>Evil Asian Dictator, you're acting on the assumption that exposing a school's problems is somehow harmful in the long term. OMG, THEY'RE GETTING THE REPUTATION THEY DESERVE! Turning a blind eye to a problem never solved anything. Maybe if they get that reputation they'll finally start fixing what's wrong. What, if the government ever does something evil you can't report it because it'll make people distrust the government? Well, no **** Einestein. </p>
<p>I'm a student, and I know that if my school ever does that, I'll report it. I don't give a **** if it hurts me in the college admission process, because I know that you don't hide your problem, you fix them; redemption is part of the deal. Hell, you're assuming that somehow getting a school blacklisted, which is unlikely unless there's an epidemic there (which puts into question your whole theory that one bad apple will somehow poison a college's perception of an entire school). Most importantly, you think that short term disdvantage in a college admission process is more harmful than a culture of cheating; the cure might be bitter, but I'd rather have stomach pain than cancer.</p>
<p>Back to the point, if colleges don't look down upon schools applying from traditional ghetto and low-income public schools that have graduation rates down the crapper, I highly doubt reporting a single student will blacklist the entire school. If a school was blacklisted, it would deserve it; you don't reward cheating.</p>
<p>Now, if this was a onetime thing it would've been okay to let it slide by, but obviously from the description this a guy who made cheating a habit; clearly not reporting his offenses has done a whole of good. It's about reinforceable behavior, and if you stop him now, he might start realizing that cheating isn't a good thing. Or at least, teach that idiot to not publicize his cheating; that's just moronic. More importantly, it will help deconstruct this culture of cheating. Of course, such a small thing won't matter, but every big movement is formed from small incidents, and if nobody ever reported cheating...</p>
<p>Talisman:
I think collegeboard would know if half the kids in the same room got a 2390. That's why they make students write down their room numbers, to catch cheating.</p>
<p>This is ridiculous; the ethical thing to do is to tell Stanford. By not doing anything, you are just as guilty as the kid that's cheating. Also, this blacklisting of high schools seems like unsubstantiated crap. I hear it all the time, but can anyone name instances where a school was blacklisted for such a thing? If so, I stand corrected. But I've never heard a concrete example of such a thing occurring. Stanford is not dumb; I don't think they would ruin the chances of other applicants from the high school simply because of one bad apple. Stanford wants the best students, period. </p>
<p>In response to the above post, do you honestly think collegeboard knows if all the kids in one room got a 2390? And even if they noticed it, what could they do? They have no evidence that anyone cheated, and it would be unfair to cancel the students' scores if they actually earned them. No, collegeboard doesn't catch cheating. It's up to the test proctors to do that. For god sakes, collegeboard can't even get its machines to score the test correctly! Do you honestly think they have the time, resources, and energy to devote to anti-cheating efforts. Probably not.</p>
<p>Test proctors don't always catch cheating. My friend took the SAT II's yesterday, and although one test-taker did something wrong unknowingly on the test didn't mind.</p>
<p>I myself have been subject to lenient, or in my case ignorant, test proctors. When I took the SAT II's in June, the test proctor thought she was proctoring for the SAT Reasoning, which she called "the ten tests" because she did not know the name. She gave different time limits depending on whether we were taking one test, two tests, or three tests. She stopped us all half way through the test to get more information from us. That was the worst SAT experience I had ever had, and I'm glad I never had to take them again. If CB wants to limit cheating, they should have better requirements for proctors.</p>
<p>Anyways, that's my little rant against the CB. Concerning the OP, I honestly don't know what to say. I've been following this thread, and both points of view have been making great arguments. It's definitely a tough decision, but logically I have to agree with downtown128 that Stanford is not stupid (at least, I should hope not!). I won't punish all students for the follies of one.</p>
<p>As celestial mentioned, since you have no connection to the school, it would be awkward to report it. And, we don't know how they would respond. They might not even believe you and might just ignore you. I guess you never truly know until you try, but actually trying is the hard part in this case. It won't affect you or your son/daughter, but it is a difficult decision to make.</p>
<p>Ok, I am truly appalled. But for the sake of all the children who are honest and dying to get accepted at Stanford, I think both cases must be reported.</p>
<p>IF you can prove without doubt that these people truly cheated, then Cailg and talisman should report it. You can do it anonymously.</p>
<p>^ reporting something anonymously carries no weight and will be instantly dismissed by admissions officers. it is a sad state of affairs but unfortunately there is nothing they can do.</p>
<p>No, they'll call the guidance counselor and it won't be dismissed if the guidance counselor has any balls whatsoever.</p>
<p>And for those of you who aren't going to report it, that's fine. But just remember that at UVa, according to the Honor Code, you're just as guilty for cheating as the person cheating if you know they're doing it and don't report it. It's very silly to rant about something like this, and then, when you're really the only person who can do something about it, do nothing.</p>
<p>"The hottest spots in hell are reserved for those who, in time of moral crisis, do nothing.
-Dante</p>
<p>Good luck! :)</p>
<p>in our school the school director opens the box containing the test BEFORE the test date, lets her favorite student actually take the test so that he/she gets a 2300+. and they're not caught because she only chooses students with high AP grades and GPA so that their high SAT scores don't seem suspicious. of course as the director, she changes their GPA, and writes their recommendation letters to boast that they are "perfect."</p>
<p>This has happened for two years, but ETS isn't doing anything about it, even though parents have sent PROOF of photocopied tests etc. ETS probably doesnt want parents in the US to know that there has been such ridiculously unbelievable cheating. because they're afraid it'll ruin their reputation</p>
<p>everyone's messed up, not just the cheaters</p>
<p>hdavid, I agree with you that's why I called our HS principal numerous times, a bd of ed contact, etc.</p>
<p>We did report it, and they dropped the ball.</p>
<p>Ray192, "If a school was blacklisted, it would deserve it; you don't reward cheating."</p>
<p>I think its highly illogical and faulty to blame an entire school for the wrongdoings of one person. That assumes that the school is responsible for the person's cheating and ought to be punished for pushing the kid in the wrong direction. Not only are you destroying one kid's future (whether or not he deserves it), you are also negatively affecting future applicants who have never stepped a toe out of line their entire life. </p>
<p>"I'm a student, and I know that if my school ever does that, I'll report it. I don't give a **** if it hurts me in the college admission process"</p>
<p>I don't know what kind of student you are but if you were applying to the dream school that has your high school blacklisted, I'm sure you wouldnt have the same opinion. You may have rock hard ethics and morals, but in the end self-interest will always trump that. </p>
<p>"I highly doubt reporting a single student will blacklist the entire school."</p>
<p>If colleges blacklist schools in cases that students back out of ED agreements, I'm sure they will do something similar, if not worse, for a dishonest applicant.</p>
<p>yeah your stories are not as bad as mine. My cousin goes to the rich all girls prep school and her friends' parents bribed psychiatrists to write a note for their children so that they could take the SAT untimed even though they are perfectly healthy.... they got nearly perfect scores. And who wouldn't if you have a sane mind?</p>
<p>"yeah your stories are not as bad as mine. My cousin goes to the rich all girls prep school and her friends' parents bribed psychiatrists to write a note for their children so that they could take the SAT untimed even though they are perfectly healthy.... they got nearly perfect scores. And who wouldn't if you have a sane mind?"</p>
<p>I cannot believe the major media hasn't picked up on this issue more than it has</p>
<p>This is a huge and growing scandal and Educational Testing Service still hasn't fixed this problem - which since 2003 have gotten much worse when the colleges. for the first time, would not be flagged as to which test takers were being time "accomodated"</p>
<p>Companies will actually fly-in from remote locales to do a "psychoeducational evaluation." -and the student can get the outcome they want in most cases </p>
<p>Greenwich, CT has somewhere between 1 in 3 and 1 in 2 students getting extra time, Wayland, MA approx 1 in 6 - way beyond the 1 in 50 avg of LD issues in the general population, in District of Columbia - way beyond any reasonable numbers... and no doubt many more districts throughout the U.S.</p>
<p>ETS needs first to release data on how many "learning disabled" students are scoring the the 2250 and beyond range - the critical demarcation point for the SAT for many top schools. Anyone that has 6 to 7 hours to take the SAT - is taking a different test and they will literally in some case be taking the places of kids that that didn't cheat </p>
<p><a href="http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=1787712&page=2%5B/url%5D">http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=1787712&page=2</a>
See ABC News story from last spring, quoted in part below: </p>
<p>(begin quote)
"There are a lot of hired guns out there, there are a lot of psychologists who you can pay a lot of money to and get a murky diagnosis of subtle learning issues," Greenberg said. "'Subtle' is a word that is really a red flag. 'Executive functioning' is another red flag, something that is kind of a new thing." </p>
<p>Other high school guidance counselors told ABC News that "diagnosis shopping" has given rise to a cottage industry of doctors and medical professionals, all willing to give students the documentation they need to get the extra test time they want. </p>
<p>Concentrated Privilege</p>
<p>The natural proportion of learning disabilities should be somewhere around 2 percent, the College Board said, but at some elite schools, up to 46 percent of students receive special accommodations to take the tests, including extra time.</p>
<p>Harvard graduate student and researcher Sam Abrams conducted a study on students in Washington, D.C, where the number of students receiving accommodations is more than three times the national average.</p>
<p>"We see outright overperformance … scores that, on average, in the disability population, would qualify you without question to the elite universities," Abrams said. "This strikes me as very compelling evidence that people are taking advantage of the system in Washington, D.C." </p>
<p>Abrams believes the abuse has become more frequent since fall 2003, when the College Board stopped "flagging" the scores of students who took the SAT with extra time. Since the "flag" was dropped, colleges have no way of knowing that the test was taken under nonstandard conditions. Abrams and his co-author, Miriam Freedman, believe this has made it more appealing for students who don't need the extra time to seek it out. </p>
<p>(end quote)</p>