Students'/Alums' Take on Swarthmore

Colleges and Universities A-Z Swarthmore College
201

<p>

That's definitely not true if you count rape. That said, it's unlikely a key card would cut down on that. Also, there has been some burglary over the years. It's arguable a key card system would cut down on that, assuming at least some of the offenders were not other students.</p>

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[quote]
Williams student Julia Cordray was able to paper seven dorms with Hitler's birthday celebration posters because her magnetic card allowed her uncontrolled access to ALL Williams College dorms...something that would not be possible with Swarthmore's "antiquated" key lock system.

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First of all this is a ridiculous argument. Secondly, it's false. A student who wanted to paper Swarthmore dorms with nazi propaganda would be able to, what with the current system of door propping in place.</p>

202

<p>Interested Dad:</p>

<p>Interesting analysis of the Williams experience with proximity cards and the rash actions of a student. Interesting but flawed. Simple question-why have all the cohort schools gone to proximity cards and Swat has not? I don't think its because of some unique insight the administration has on its student body-rather its because they are being cheap. Something to keep in mind as families are considering where to spend $200k at full retail.</p>

203

<p>Weren't they able to track Ms. Julie back to the Nazi posters because of the key cards? (Although she defended them so she would have admitted them.)</p>

<p>At Virginia Tech, did the killer let himself into the dorm with his key card? If so, they could have tracked him, after the first crimes. </p>

<p>It really should be that cards are dorm, building, and floor specific. That is how most building security is. Where I work now, cards are specifically programmed to allow access to specific areas of the building where one works. To get exercise room access, for instance, one has to pass a screening and then access is added to the card.</p>

204

<p>
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...its because they are being cheap.

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</p>

<p>Swarthmore has one of the highest annual per student spending rates in the country. So that argument doesn't hold much water.</p>

<p>As for the person who mentioned rape. Anyone who is familiar with college sexual assault crimes knows that virtually all such crimes involve non-consensual sex between two students who know each other and virtually all such crimes involve alcohol. Key cards won't reduce rape on campus. Less binge drinking will.</p>

<p>Again, I don't believe there has been an incident of a Swarthmore student injured by a dorm intruder going back at least the ten years covered by the on-line archives of The Phoenix. The only violent crime I recall reading about was an attempted robbery (purse/wallet) by the train tracks/tunnel several years ago. This, of course, would not have been prevented by a magnetic card.</p>

205

<p>To paraphrase Cuba Gooding from the movie "Jerry McGuire", "show me the proximity card!!".</p>

<p>Swat is clearly being cheap unlike its cohorts. Swat chooses to overpay its faculty at the expense of student safety and welfare. Swat will continue this callous policy until the customers (i.e. paying families and lottery winners) are heard.</p>

<p>I won't convince zealots who will breath "Go Swat" with their last breath but I do hope to raise a fundapmental question in the minds of families considering the investment of a Swarthmore education. I can only speak for myself ultimately by saying one Swat full retail undergraduate degree is all that I will ever pay for.</p>

206

<p>Starch:</p>

<p>Federal law requires annual reporting by all colleges of reported crimes on campus, broken down by location (including residence halls). This allows a security concious parent, such as yourself, to compare colleges and see if their security measures produce results.</p>

<p>Let's look at the reported stats for dormitory crimes for the more recent three year period at two similar LACs (one with keys, one with cards) to see if there is any obvious difference:</p>

<p>Crimes, by category, reported in residence halls 2004-06)</p>

<p>Murder
Swarthmore: 0
Williams: 0</p>

<p>Manslauter
Swarthmore: 0
Williams: 0</p>

<p>Forcible sex offensives (rape, sodomy, assault with object, or fondling)
Swarthmore: 3
Williams: 6</p>

<p>note: These are almost certainly "date rape" type incidents between students acquainted with each other. There are been no reported incidents of "outsider" rape at either school in years, if ever.</p>

<p>Aggravated assault
Swarthmore: 0
Williams: 4</p>

<p>note: These incidents are almost certainly student on student fights or brawls resulting in arrest. I believe the incident at Williams was two football players beating each other to the point of hospitalization over a girl. There were assualt arrests at Swarthmore a couple of years ago in conjunction with a frat fight. It's not listed here because it didn't take place in a dorm.</p>

<p>Burglary
Swarthmore: 36
Williams: 144</p>

<p>note: This category includes all unauthorized entry into a student's room for the purpose of stealing, vandalism, or any other crime, whether theft actually occured or not.</p>

<p>This is only the most recent three year period. Also, you need to adjust these figures to reflect different enrollments (multiple Williams numbers by .75). But, with these caveats, nothing is jumping out at me to suggest that a magnetic card entry system offers any measureable benefit in reported crime statistics.</p>

<p>One of the things that a solid liberal arts education teaches is to use statistical-based evaluation in a cost/benefit analysis.</p>

207

<p>Oh, come on, Starch! There are many legitimate reasons for some students not to choose Swat over another school. The lack of proximity cards should be the last one on everyone's list IMHO.</p>

208

<p>Seriously, starch, we get your point. I understand that the security issue is high on your list and you seem quite concerned that Swat "overpays" it's faculty. As the parent of an '07 graduate, we feel differently. Son had great professors (almost all) who were very accessible, small classes, and great, helpful faculty advising. "Security cards" are a "fundapmental" question to be raised for families considering a Swarthmore education? :rolleyes:</p>

209

<p>I think each student and his/her family SHOULD sit down and make a list of priorities for choosing a college. One student/family might make security cards a top priority. Another student/family might make diversity a top priority. Some might prioritize a big party/drinking scene. Others might look for a college with less binge drinking.</p>

<p>Those are all legitimate priorities. Consciously choosing priorities will quickly narrow the college choice down. Some priority lists will move Swarthmore up; others will move Swarthmore down.</p>

210

<p>
[quote]
One of the things that a solid liberal arts education teaches is to use statistical-based evaluation in a cost/benefit analysis.

[/quote]

Apparently not, if you went to a LAC and think that the differences in numbers of assaults in residence halls cited here over a three year period is statistically significant or representative of the relative safety levels between Williams and Swarthmore, or that it says anything at all about the key card argument. In fact, these figures you cite are largely meaningless and contribute nothing to the discussion.</p>

<p>Swarthmore has a long history of being behind the times in dorm technology when compared to its peer schools. Whether it's HVAC, washers and dryers, key cards, or whatever. The student living at Swarthmore is aesthetically very nice (for the most part), but it lags in terms of technology. If people want to complain about this, that's fine. If a parent who has paid full price for his child to attend Swarthmore views this as a shortcoming of the school and wants to say something about it, I think he's entitled, whether or not everyone here agrees that it's a big deal.</p>

211

<p>Nice to hear an alumnus's perspective on the physical facilities that Swat offers. Guess that was the original intent of this discussion.</p>

<p>I wish my family had researched Swat more closely prior to buying one liberal arts education. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. I won't buy another Swat education. Caveat emptor-again.</p>

<p>P.S. momof3sons: thanks for your help with my spelling abilities ... You must have a true command of the English language!</p>

212

<p>If you liked my spelling, you should see my penmanship! After all, I'm a physician and I took the bad spelling/penmanship class in medical school ;)</p>

213

<p>Hello everyone. I got into Swarthmore a few weeks ago and plan on majoring in Engineering. A lot of different points have been thrown around on this board, but i'm struggling to find something concrete to help me make a decision. Campus security is really low on my list of concerns. Top of the list is academics. Are the academics at swarthmore as good as their rankings portray?</p>

214

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Are the academics at swarthmore as good as their rankings portray?

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<p>I am not aware of any college or university that offers a better overall undergrad academic experience. The academic engagement of the faculty and the student body at Swarthmore is unusually high.</p>

215

<p>Yes, academics are excellent, and the engineering program has a very good reputation. You have to know though that there is only a "general" engineering major (no EE, Chem.E., etc). (There is a Computer Science major - it is separate from engineering at Swarthmore.)</p>

216

<p>Based on my child's input, be sure you are in the honors program of whatever major you may pick at Swat. Apparently there is a palpable academic hierarchy with the professors favoring students in their honors program. Although I've heard good things about the engineering program in a LAC environment at Swat, be careful if you are going to take on significant debt to attend this college over the other options you also probably have.</p>

217

<p>I think Swat has adopted a no-loan program if you and your family qualify for financial need. My comment is more intended at the global expense of a Swat education-someone has to pay for it.</p>

218

<p>The global cost is about the same as at any private college. At least at Swarthmore, once you are in, all campus activities are free, which is not at all the case at most schools.</p>

<p>And yes, Swarthmore fin aid is loans-free.</p>

219

<p>Swat is the same as all other private colleges (e.g. Kenyon)? Please expound.</p>

220

<p>tuition, room, board, and fees for the academic year 2007-2008
Williams = $45,140
Amherst = $49,352 - 51,302
Swarthmore = $45,700
Middlebury = $46,910
Pomona = $45,680
Wellesley = $45,820
Carlton = $45,645
Haverford = $46,270.</p>