This is as much a guidance counselor issue as a student issue. GC should not submit additional materials, transcript etc to these other schools.
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There is no way schools would ever do that - it would be a bad look as it would be seen as favoring the wealthy and discouraging ED applications by low SES students. Even if a waiver is available, that is another step to go through and anything that is perceived as putting additional barriers in the way of lower SES applicants is a non-starter.
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My kid doesn’t know if her guidance counselor could pick her out of a line-up. A GC at a private school or competitive feeder high school could be a gatekeeper, though, and maybe that is where it is most needed because those are the schools doing the most ED apps/monkey business.
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I agree with you. It was just an idea. I don’t know how the colleges can solve this problem, if it really is a problem.
Does anyone know if the level of kids backing out of ED has risen to the point that colleges feel they need to do anything about it? It’s one thing to read anecdotes here on cc, but I wonder if colleges are really concerned.
My kid thought long and hard about applying ED and we discussed it many times with him ahead of time. He got in, withdrew all other applications, and paid his deposit. It’s super frustrating to know people are making a game of this instead of following the rules of ED. Honestly, I’m shocked at how many parents/kids out there are making this a game at the expense of other students who truly do want to go to the school.
**done ranting now…
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I doubt it is a significant problem. Are some kids abusing the system (like the Vandy/Harvard case mentioned above) . . . sure. Unfortunately, there are always people willing to try and game the system if they think they can get away with it.
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@wndrwmn and some of us thought long and hard and decided NOT to apply ED because it felt like we’d be doing the wrong thing to withdraw based on our individual assessment we couldn’t pay if the offered amount was in keeping with NPC number.
It seems like a bad system if it rewards the unethical and punishes the rule-followers and people acting in good faith.
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My S2020 wa told by school GC that he had two days to withdraw the other EA apps. So he did.
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That’s the key point. Those who seem to be gaming the system (whether it’s ED withdrawal or violating REA rules) are looking at it from their own selfish viewpoint and don’t care that they are taking away seats from other applicants who would have been happy to go to those schools.
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In reading all these responses, perhaps then the posts we’ve seen recently are more reflective of wishful thinking than of actual actions. Maybe more students are applying ED, having second thoughts, and are stuck with no option. It does seem that at least some students (and by extension, their parents and/or GC’s) are unethical.
Anyone out there have any evidence to show that this is becoming more commonplace? @MYOS1634 any thoughts?
No evidence, just anecdotes. I have a family member whose son was accepted ED, and they have withdrawn no other applications. If he prefers another school, parent intends to argue for mental health reasons, he should be closer to home. No true need, just gaming the system, entirely parent driven.
I have another family member who constantly references some NYT article, stating that ED isn’t really binding. I don’t think it says what he thinks it says, but his thoughts are firm.
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But even if they are not tracking it for statistical purposes, they certainly do know when a specific student it doing it, especially if they are using admissions platforms like Scoir or Naviance.
Your GC’s indifference will hurt matriculation success if the high school supports applications that violate the terms of REA and ED agreements. College admissions officers are assigned by state, metro areas or regions. It’s their job to know which high schools they can trust for quality applicants.
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I haven’t heard of this at our high school. I even know a student who got in EA to MIT and withdrew their application from Berkeley CS to help other students.
I don’t think S22’s college counselor knows that he withdrew his EA applications. She didn’t know he was accepted ED until he told her.
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This is the NYTimes article: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/18/your-money/paying-for-college/early-decision-binding-nyu.html
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Punishing future applicants from the high school is not a deterrent against ED cheating, since the cheater merely causes other people to be punished. Someone who cheats is unlikely to be concerned about future applicants from the high school being punished for their cheating.
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Hi all, here’s a counter opinion…just for the sake of a healthy argument…
I think the whole ED process places a huge amount of power in the hands of a handful of “highly selective schools”. It puts undue pressure on students (and parents), that are highly stressed to begin with.
The schools continue to operate with no transparency in their selection process and focus on artificial measures such a yield management, while they put moral and financial pressure on the applicants.
I think the entire early admissions game should be banned…There should just be one decision pool (Regular decision) All applications should be due on the same date across the country and the students should get the opportunity to make a fair and informed choice on the acceptances /offers they get…
This would stop the college from boosting artificial metrics and force them to be somewhat honest in their selection process, while also preventing students/parents from guesswork or gaming the system…
Any thoughts?
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Right, that’s the obvious moral hazard. My comments were focused on the effect on the high school and the responsibility of the GCs, who should not be supporting new apps in violation of agreements they also signed.
I just read that article. It talks about the finances and the nuisances of it. Seems that it was a reflection on something that someone connected to NYU had said concerning the binding ED agreement that wasn’t correct and got pulled. The article goes on to talk about the fine print and the reason that you can get out of an ED. It is there. My son was ED2 to Oxford Emory in 2020 and he is there and did pull anything else that came after. In the agreement at the bottom it does say if financial needs are not met you can request to have the school release you from the contract (my words not the contract). It does not say you can get out of it. So for example, I lost my job this year due to Covid changes. If it was the year he had applied and it changed our ability to pay we could have talked to Emory and seen if anything could change. It it was a no then we could have requested a release from the contract. We would not have and would have figured it out and have. It is the right place and right school for him.
Releasing from an ED isn’t meant to be a I changed my mind and was gaming the system thing. The article in the NYT is explaining that the contracts say binding but that you can break them and can be read however you want to understand it. I didn’t see the author or what part of the paper it was in so not sure of the context of the article itself.
This is that NYT article people are citing:
S2 did not apply ED to any school because we feel that it is important to “shop” the financial offers- we are not well to do. I am not at all surprised that applicants are trying to game the system. After all, don’t the universities do the same thing?
Without getting into details, because it is beyond the scope of this thread, I see and hear of local students and parents doing far more ethically dubious things in their quest to get in a better school than they might otherwise deserve.
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