<p>“I was not claiming that,”</p>
<p>UCBA, I know you weren’t. It was another poster who said it should be decided which majors are are wasted and not given gov’t student loans. </p>
<p>Also, of course there are many majors in the liberal arts which prepare one for a specific careers but none of them are considered pre-professional, and I daresay that the person who suggested some majors don’t deserve federal funds would see several on that list as not worthy.</p>
<p>Mad, I know a bunch who fail out after one semester. It’s a bit crazy to think about. Some are our of their league, some don’t know how to focus without their parents hovering over them Abba making then study, some like to party, some are just studying the wrong thing.</p>
<p>Did your niece go to a cc after failing out?</p>
<p>Sent from my DROID BIONIC using CC</p>
<p>Small point, just in case anyone ever reads through this thread, I want to correct a statement made way, way back on post #68</p>
<p>busdriver11 stated: “My first “real” job (military), there was no expectation of a relocation package.”</p>
<p>As a career military family, with 7 moves over the past 23 years, the military DOES provide a “relocation package” from the first move to the last move. Within a budget, all moving costs are covered, including the initial move to your first duty station, and your last move, at your time of retirement. We could nit pick about the details, but the moving costs are covered. My apologies if I’m misinterpreting what busdriver was saying.</p>
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<p>I don’t disagree. In the old days there were many farm jobs, road jobs (when roads were built by hand), factory jobs and more. None of these required much in higher education - just some OTJ training and basic base knowledge gained from a school or within a family. Automation and computers have changed all that. Just look at any pic from the Industrial Revolution’s old days (or earlier) and contemplate that same situation now.</p>
<p>Sure, we’ve added more in retail, restaurant, and “fun” (Disney, etc), but I don’t think the two categories compare percentage-wise. With a larger population and comparatively fewer jobs (not actual numbers, but percentages) it IS going to be tough for those who can’t keep up academically and aren’t lucky enough to snag one of the “I can do this” jobs left.</p>
<p>Then add the recession in… and the national/state debt levels (coming from all political parties) that are requiring cuts in what used to be stable jobs. It’s not a pretty picture.</p>
<p>Kids are raised in an alternative life where everyone gets a trophy and everyone wins. In reality, there’s a bit of a competition out there and it’s getting tougher. More would do better in school (even high school) if they realized it, but for those who can’t do better, there isn’t an easy solution.</p>
<p>I’m not sure colleges should require all students to take business courses, but they should offer such courses for non-business majors. Knowing more about business could help graduates get better jobs and do well in them.</p>
<p>[Require</a> Business 101 for Every Student - Commentary - The Chronicle of Higher Education - February 4, 2013](<a href=“http://chronicle.com/article/Require-Business-101-for-Every/136967/]Require”>http://chronicle.com/article/Require-Business-101-for-Every/136967/)</p>
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<p>@Fender, my niece is in cc. She’s on the slow path with work and boyfriend and fun all mixed in but it may be what’s right for her. We had to be honest with her. She was in lala-land thinking she was going to get back in to her college and be with her boyfriend again. We told her that guy already moved on which she still had to find out the hard way and we told her college is a waste of money if she can’t buckle down for a few months and do the most basic work.</p>
<p>She’s one of many good kids we see go through this sort of thing. I wonder if it would be better if colleges stopped treating kids like adults and started communicating more with the ultimate buyer of their high priced services - PARENTS!!</p>
<p>Beliavsky, and students who major in business should know who Confucius was and why he is important; when someone makes a reference to Stalin at a business meeting what they mean; what the word “Gulag” implies; when your boss looks at a document and Powerpoint you’ve created and says, “this looks like a Picasso painting on steroids” what she is referring to, and when something is described as “a Requiem” what that means.</p>
<p>I cannot believe the cultural illiteracy of some business grads I have met. As if everything of value in all of human experience can be taught in an accounting class.</p>
<p>Yes, liberal arts grads should know the difference between fiscal and monetary policy (although many business school undergrads do not know this). And why tax rates are relevant in discussing economic growth and recession. And what a demand curve is.</p>
<p>And business school grads need to know the basics of history, art, literature and science in order to advance beyond some technocratic job calculating ROI or Net Present Value (both of which could be done by a mature 7th grader).</p>
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<p>These topics are typically covered in introductory economics (although there are also business topics that are not economics). Apparently, many students consider them important, since introductory economics is typically a popular course for non-economics non-business majors.</p>
<p>UBC- I agree with you. It is easier IMHO for someone majoring in European History to add Econ 1 and 2 plus a statistics course, then for a “Business Major” to easily augment their professional studies with “what you need to know to understand common references from art, history, literature, music and science” but then I’m always the poster getting beat up for criticizing undergrad business majors!</p>
<p>Colleges could require all business majors to watch every episode of Southpark - a comprehensive overview of history, literature, sociology and politics. In fact, there was even a character named Gulag.</p>
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<p>A core curriculum would cover this, but at most colleges it has been replaced by distribution requirements that do not.</p>
<p>Interested students could read a book such as </p>
<p>The New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy: What Every American Needs to Know (2002)
E. D. Hirsch, Joseph F. Kett, and James Trefil .</p>
<p>I like the Core Curriculum at Columbia U but most kids need remedial help before even being able to begin an intense liberal arts based core.</p>
<p>MIT and the military service academies have extensive core curricula, even though they do not seem to be commonly mentioned when “core curriculum” comes up in discussions.</p>
<p>Then again, St. John’s College has a core curriculum that is the entire curriculum.</p>
<p>The constantly revised ‘core curriculum’ at D1’s flagship state requires a class in ‘creative arts’. Apparently 6-9 credits of architecture studio per semester for 4 years straight don’t count so she took a photography class :)</p>
<p>To their credit, the core classes (30-33 credits) include baby Calculus or some obscure Logic class (baby Calc has like 100 sections, very well taught), a 2 semester pretty serious writing sequence, couple semesters of science, couple on political science/humanities/etc, and so on. Unfortunately, most of the ‘core’ courses taken are fresh/soph level (they offer jun/sen also but with few takers) so they don’t dig too deep… And the core eats up too many credits that could be used for a minor (my view).</p>
<p>No business classes in the core even tho they have a decent B-school.</p>
<p>Oldest is at a college with a core. Middle is at one without a core. I’m happy with both. Of course, both could also easily have discussions including any of Blossom’s examples or the business/economics examples prior to going to college.</p>
<p>IMO, colleges should go deeper in whatever classes the students choose to take. No one needs to be super deep into everything. The basics of it all should be covered earlier.</p>
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<p>LOL!</p>
<p>10char</p>
<p>“As a career military family, with 7 moves over the past 23 years, the military DOES provide a “relocation package” from the first move to the last move. Within a budget, all moving costs are covered, including the initial move to your first duty station, and your last move, at your time of retirement. We could nit pick about the details, but the moving costs are covered. My apologies if I’m misinterpreting what busdriver was saying.”</p>
<p>Way back when, I don’t recall there being any moving package offered from my home to initial pilot training. Then again, maybe it’s different now, or maybe the corps commanders just didn’t bother to tell us, or maybe because it was merely a temporary training assignment. Everything I owned fit in the back of my RX-7 anyways. But they did give me a move package to my first assignment after that. Perhaps if I would have asked the question they would have moved my stuff, but I was far too uninformed to ask. I’m sure you’re correct.</p>
<p>Turbo, that’s interesting. We had distribution requirements but we could use courses from our major to satisfy them and for minors as well. My major required economics courses counted towards them and my art classes did too.</p>
<p>Seems silly to have to take two extra art classes if you’ve already taken ten.</p>
<p>Sent from my DROID BIONIC using CC</p>
<p>I managed to get through all 18 pages worth of posts. Some of the posts by page 8 or 9 started to drift away from the topic at hand. </p>
<p>I fit in this category. I currently make 14,000 a year as a teacher aide that I’ve been doing since August of 2012. I’m 32 and didn’t see myself at this point making such a low income after being out of college for almost 9 years now. My principal told me a few months “you don’t want to be doing this job forever, do you”. He was basically saying find something better that pays something. I’ve been trying to for years. </p>
<p>Had a second job from August until October this year at a brand new retail store making 8 dollars an hour before getting let go due to budget reasons. I was the eldest in the department I was working in and the only one with a bachelors degree. The ages of the others I worked with were, 23, two 20 year olds, a 19 year old, and a 17 year old who was a senior in high school. A couple of them were in community college part time. However, I worked along side them and didn’t complain about the age difference. If I wasn’t assisting customers, I asked managers if they had any projects for me to work on. The response was no. So I found things to do whether stocking items (some items like soft drinks weren’t part of my department but I stocked them anyway) or cleaned the department. </p>
<p>Even If I were still at that retail job and the current teacher aide job, I’d be bringing in 18,000 a year after taxes. So I’d be on welfare after working 55 hours a week. </p>
<p>The problem that also needs to be discussed is when one has been out of college for 7 or more years and is still making 8 dollars an hour with a bachelors degree How are you supposed to get a better paying job. I still haven’t made 30,000 a year yet.</p>
<p>You may have to move to another area if your work experience/ recommendations, etc are fine.</p>